The return of Genesis 1?
JOdel
Posts: 6,316
So, today Rendo is full of their Whatsmas release of L'Homme. I'm sure that's nice, but I don't use Poser, so it's of no direct interest to me.
However. The big announcement is that L'Homme is a morph of L'Femme. Not a separate figure. A morph.
So, does that mean that they share UVs? Or does L'Homme have his own? Are products created for L'Femme usable on L'Homme? Will they be so going forward? (I could understand existing products not being backwards compatible) Inquiring minds want to know.
We've been here before, haven't we? Genesis 1 was an ungendered base with male and female morphs. Rendo seems to have decided to dispense with the ungendered intermediate base (although I wouldn't know for certain. But none of the announcements talk about it). Back around 2011, a tremendous lot of developers wouldn't touch G1 with a 10-foot-pole, but the ungendered base was only part of the problem, and the part that DAZ decided to eliminate in order to try to coax the developers back.
And they did come back. Although it was only after DAZ made further changes to the rigging and UV layout that developing for G3 and beyond really started gaining traction. Developing "for Genesis" in itself is no longer a roadblock.
So, what I'm now wondering is whether the development community is now ready to contemplate developing for an ungendered base. For something that *isn't* Genesis. Because I think the changes in the Genesis polycount and layour between G3F and G3M and beyond have probably closed that door.
It may be worth observing.
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Comments
The problem with the G1 series is not the figure itself, but how it was supported.
In the end, it is not the quality of a figure that makes it a success or not, it is the amount of support that it gets that makes it a success. You can see that with the plethera of new figures that came out for poser over the years. The figures may have been decent enough (which I am sure many would argue), but the point is that they never got the supporting products like you get for figures here. That si why the genesis lines are successful.
But with Genesis 1, the problem was with things like clothing. You woudl make male clothing, and then people would demand that it also work on the female version, and then vice versa. Which really didnt work out so well, and we ended up with boring designs that were geneder nutral and had limited appeal.
A single base figure sounds good in theory...and was good for a creature maker like me, but like vhs and beta, the end of the line economics of it showed it being a flawed idea.
From what I can gather yes everthing L'Femme can be used on L'Homme. What makes me laugh is some of Genesis 1 biggest critics especially of the multi figure are now praising this figure to the hilt, if you ignore the bad renders in threads and look at some of the promo ones he isn't that bad but the armpits and a few other areas are a real problem, I don't think he is worth $30 or even $15.
I think they look OK but need much much better weight maps and such to make the expressions look plausible. Some parts of anatomy look off too. Without major improvements I don't see them gaining much traction.
This is a purely academic question for me, as I'm pretty invested in G8 now and have no plans to switch. But from a consumers perspective, single-gender figures sound appealing to me. I have no idea how it looks from a developers perspective, so that's always interesting to hear.
Do any of you really think that figure will be supported nearly as much as even Genesis 1 was?
I think it may have a better chance than any of the others, it does have rendo's support behind it, if they release an updated and actually improved Poser in the next 12 months (although I struggle to see how this can happen) and include the figures again it may be the one that gets the most support, they could also do with some really improved marketing.
From what I understand of it, everything for LaFemme can also be used on L'Homme the same way as the Genesis 1 Female clothes, skin, hair, morphs, etc. can all be used on the Genesis 1 Male. Unfortunately I do not think he'll get a lot of support, although I'd like to be proven wrong. Today I could have bought L'Homme but instead I picked up the Tristan 8 because frankly, he does not make me cringe whenever I look at him. L'Homme's shoulders make me shudder and not in a good way. A few of the L'Homme promo renders I saw do show some promise but I think it will take much more work (and of course more money) to get him looking as good as Michael 4, let alone any of the Genesis figures. That's very disappointing. I guess I'll be sticking with old Mike 4 and G2M whenever I'm in the mood to play with Poser.
I liked genesis 1 and how it was a shape changer. It was the jack of all morphs figure. I don't think daz will bring back this kind of figure ever again but who knows I may be wrong?
They still look like 10 year old Poser figures to me, they aren't lifelike. There is nothing wrong with toon figures mind you, I use a lot of them, but the game for realistic looking human figures has been upped quite a bit and Poser creators have a ways to go to catch up. There is nothing there that would tempt me to crank up Poser again.
Yes, and the first Aiko (who also had a male morph, dubbed "Mako" by Xena) was a morph of Stephanie. Good times.
-- Walt Sterdan
Maybe because there is already content for La Femme.
For example LHomme can use the poses and hair.
In the Rendo freestuff there are about 170 items for La Femme, and the maximum number of downloads is just over 400, while the uncountable G8 item downloads are each frequently in the thousands. I imagine that it helps that G8 is free, and has more support from vendors than La Femme.
Most amature artists like me either go for realistic characters or obviously toon/anime characters, but La Femme fits somewhere in between and lacks the better features of those styles. Sure, La Femme appeals to some buyers but it is too niche to be a threat to Genesis 8 (and 'soon' G9), well that's my opinion.
The anatomical elements on L'Homme looked rather shriveled compared to what you can do with Genesis 2, 3, 8... which kind of matters for those of us who appreciate that anatomy.
She seems to get more attention from vendors than any non-Daz figure thus far, so in that regard, she's doing well for the target audience. For Poser users, it's the first relatively supported figure they've had in years other than V4 and M4.
Laurie
this is existing out of box. there is e.g. a hidden clone morph for g8m on g8f and vive versa.
funny ironic thing is now is that in real life we are all Genesis 1 based so in theory maybe g9 could be the new Genesis 1
Genesis 1 was an amazing break-through and it had its time, but now we are at Genesis 8. with every new Genesis something really annoying got fixed and improved. So I for sure don't want to go back, neither want to look back, as much as I won't drive a Ford Thin Lizzy on a regular basis.
The one big plus for Genesis 1, was once you were able to port morphs over from Victoria 4/Micheal 4 you were set, as it was difficult to tell the difference between the Genesis 1 version and the Victoria 4 original.. Also the best part of Genesis 1 was complete compatability with Victoria 4/Michael 4 textures.. No need to jump through multiple hoops, buying extra plugins to be able to use the textures..
I would agree with RawArt.
I would also add, is it always possible to have 'one size fits all' product or service?
If it is, is it desirable to have such a product or service?
Quite often, these questions can only be completely answered once they exist. Marketting and research can give some useful data, as can looking at situations relevant to 'your product', but interpretation of the data you have is important, so to is correctly structuring the questions asked to garner the data.
They don't have the corrective morphs, but they are useful.
My own opinion is that it could work, and perhaps well, but we go back to RawArt's comments; support it receives, and would add: confidence of those able to support it.
Stephanie (1) was the Michael mesh, but not a morph - it was shaped and rigged to match Victoria.
Having a single mesh was kind of neat but G3X and G8X are so much better than G1 was that it feels like a gimmick more than anything now.
...I still use G1 for alien, creature and toon characters.
I do as well.
Laurie
..loved it when 3DU reidid Sadie and Sam for Genesis, then released several other nice toon characters which I have. Also have a nice set of alien morphs for G1 as well.
One feature I liked that disappeared from later versions is the base "androgynous" shape which works well for the latter, Just wish I could use Skin Builder Pro or Beautiful Skins on it (only work with G2F).
Weren't they supposed to use a rib? :P
Also the issue with G1 G2 is they can't be exported fine to other apps without a daz plugin because of the proprietary triax system. While G3 G8 export fine to blender and maya. As for the G1 idea of a single base for both genders personally I believe it is good by itself, but the marketing has to make it clear that not everything will work limitless. There is nothing bad of simply using a G1F or G1M label just to make it clear that a particular outfit will work better for the female or male figure.