Swapping MATS and Normals

Dim Reaper

In the Jenni 8 thread, there were a couple of posts by Outrider32 about trying different MATs with the character, but also about swapping back the normal maps to add in detail.  They are on this page.  I was interested in trying this out and so did several test renders using Jenni 8 and Bluejaunte's Murphy character MATs.

Please note that my intention is not to denigrate the default Jenni 8 materials, or the artist who made them, but rather to look at how to achieve a particular "look" with a character by mixing assets - particularly with use of the normal maps.

Outrider32 posted some renders doing this with Dorothea and Edie in the thread linked above.  I would be very interested to see what other users could come up with.  For this test, I was going for Jenni 8 as a fairly light-skinned lady in her late 30s to early 40s.  I've used the default Daz setup for rendering and lighting.

01 - Jenni default.  I'm finding this skin too orange.

02 Jenni default with the Translucency Low setting - much better in my opinion, and I'm liking that the age lines around the mouth, chin and eyes are more apparent.

03 Jenni with the default BJ Murphy MAT.  Obviously the age looks different now, and the look is too young for what I wanted.

04 Jenni Murphy MAT with the default Jenni Normals at the default setting of 1.

05 Jenni Murphy MAT Default with the default Jenni Normals at the default setting of 1, and the default Jenni bumpmaps dialed to 4 as they were on the default Jenni figure.

06 Jenni Murphy MAT Default with the default Jenni Normals at the default setting of 1, and the default Jenni bumpmaps dialed to 4 as they were on the default Jenni figure, with the Jenni HD add-on dialled to 100%.

 

At this point I reloaded the figure to see the effect of the Jenni HD add-on, without the normal maps.

07 Jenni with the default BJ Murphy MAT, and the Jenni HD add-on at 100%.

08 Jenni with the default BJ Murphy MAT, and the Jenni HD add-on at 100% and the Jenni normals at 1.5.  Some distortion on the nose here but the age lines look better.

09 Jenni with the default BJ Murphy MAT, and the Jenni HD add-on at 100% and the Jenni normals at 2.  For me, the distortion on the nose is now too much.

From these tests, I'm going to experiment with test #8, with the Jenni normals between 1 and 1.5.

 

I would value any opinions on further tweaks to the materials that could be made, and would love to see what mixes others can come up with.  I'm going to keep working on this, but I'm very much liking the Jenni model and of course everything that Bluejaunt comes up with.

MimicMolly

Sometimes I do this with my non-HD characters. The Mousso HD ones come with the separate HD details and normal maps, for example. I apply those to the other characters and the difference is noticable. It's one reason I don't really buy HD G8Fs, unless they're different. Like how Jenni 8 is a middle aged woman. The younger 20-30 year old ones are already so readily available.

I would like to know how to make my own normal maps out of HD morphs. I have Male-M3dia's Jennifer HD. Love the details, but I'd also love to use them with normals too. Same with those "First Class" V8 head morphs Raiya made.

outrider42

Very nice testing. This is kind of what I do a lot these days..."how does it blend with BJ's skins?"

Pretty much any of the BJ girls can work for this purpose. You can also mix up the diffuse and/or transluceny maps and get some cool results. If you replace just the diffuse maps, consider adjusting the translucency values. The values are high, so what happens is the trans maps kind of overpower the diffuse maps. You could also throw the diffuse maps into photoshop real quick and adjust the color tone if they are still too orange. Just lighten them up a bit.

If the nose at normal 2+ is bothering you, you could probably do a little photoshop on the nose's normal map and reduce it there. Maybe just lightly adjust the lines around the nose or whatever the detail is. You could blur them or maybe paint the normal map blue color at very low opacity on top of them to reduce how much they stand out.

The real star of the show on BJ's girls are the dual lobe specularity maps. Nobody has maps like them (I have spotted a couple, but they released well after BJ started doing this). The dual lobe maps are designed in way that simulates the very top layer of our skin with all the tiny crinkles and cracks in it. These maps are uniquely different from the diffuse and bumps, where most such maps by others are simply diffuse maps made to be black and white and maybe with added noise. Also they even have 2 maps, one for reflection, and one for roughness. Again, very few do this. Because these maps are so different and are basically the top skin layers, they also end up working extremely well on other characters. For many Daz characters, a lot of them really do have good textures, but where they might slip are the glossy spec maps. 

So you could just wholesale swap out everything except for the dual lobe textures, and get a result.

 

MimicMolly said:

Sometimes I do this with my non-HD characters. The Mousso HD ones come with the separate HD details and normal maps, for example. I apply those to the other characters and the difference is noticable. It's one reason I don't really buy HD G8Fs, unless they're different. Like how Jenni 8 is a middle aged woman. The younger 20-30 year old ones are already so readily available.

I would like to know how to make my own normal maps out of HD morphs. I have Male-M3dia's Jennifer HD. Love the details, but I'd also love to use them with normals too. Same with those "First Class" V8 head morphs Raiya made.

I have never tried it, but the last post in this thread has a method for making normal maps from the HD morph. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/218946/is-it-possible-to-bake-hd-morphs-to-maps

Asari

Thank you @Dim Reaper and @outrider42 this is very helpful. Also thx for the great comparison renders and the documentation what settings you used. I learnt some similar technique not long ago from a thread by Laurie @Allensart but this comprehensive testing is impressive and very helpful. I do also find bluejaunte's skin shaders and textures extremely versatile for creating your own custom characters. They even fit well for G8M characters.

Dim Reaper

outrider42 said:

If the nose at normal 2+ is bothering you, you could probably do a little photoshop on the nose's normal map and reduce it there. Maybe just lightly adjust the lines around the nose or whatever the detail is. You could blur them or maybe paint the normal map blue color at very low opacity on top of them to reduce how much they stand out.

The real star of the show on BJ's girls are the dual lobe specularity maps. Nobody has maps like them (I have spotted a couple, but they released well after BJ started doing this). The dual lobe maps are designed in way that simulates the very top layer of our skin with all the tiny crinkles and cracks in it. These maps are uniquely different from the diffuse and bumps, where most such maps by others are simply diffuse maps made to be black and white and maybe with added noise. Also they even have 2 maps, one for reflection, and one for roughness. Again, very few do this. Because these maps are so different and are basically the top skin layers, they also end up working extremely well on other characters. For many Daz characters, a lot of them really do have good textures, but where they might slip are the glossy spec maps. 

So you could just wholesale swap out everything except for the dual lobe textures, and get a result.

 

Thanks for posting this - you have given me a lot to try out here. 

Dim Reaper

Asari said:

Thank you @Dim Reaper and @outrider42 this is very helpful. Also thx for the great comparison renders and the documentation what settings you used. I learnt some similar technique not long ago from a thread by Laurie @Allensart but this comprehensive testing is impressive and very helpful. I do also find bluejaunte's skin shaders and textures extremely versatile for creating your own custom characters. They even fit well for G8M characters.

Glad to hear that the test renders were of interest.

I've not tried the BJ textures on G8M, but that could be a future project.