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PC upgrade

kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914
in The Commons

Looks like I'm finally upgrading my old system from a 3-core amd athlon to a Ryzen Threadripper 1900x

I ordered the parts to upgrade my wife's computer, but after they arrived, she decided she didn't want a giant tower (It's a standard ATX case) so it looks like I get the parts.

Problem is, I'm so used to CPU's coming with stock air coolers, I didn't even think about it when ordering the parts.

So I start searching and I'm reading a lot about the air coolers blocking ram slots on the Asrock x399 board,

so it looks like I'll need some recomendations on a socket sTR4 air cooler for these parts

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157861

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232157

https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-threadripper-1900x/p/N82E16819113457

 

If it's needed, this is the case I have

https://www.newegg.com/black-cooler-master-storm-scout-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811119196?Item=N82E16811119196

Dimensions (H x W x D)

19.20" x 8.60" x 19.50"

 

Thanks in advance!

Comments

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805

    I hope you got a really good deal or needed all the PCIE lanes. If you paid newegg's current prices...

    As to an air cooler that won't block RAM? That's going to depend on the height  of your RAM and the size of the cooler. Stuff that is really hard to get info on. This might work:

    https://www.newegg.com/p/13C-0005-00140?Description=noctua%20nh-u14s&cm_re=noctua_nh-u14s-_-13C-0005-00140-_-Product

    IIRC you can rotate the cooler for better clearance but it's been a while since I built a TR and have never used that mobo. If not I'd get a 240mm AIO which likely will cost about what a TR air cooler will. 

    Have you got the computer to post with just two sticks of RAM? TR is quad channel and your Mobo may be very specific about what RAM slots need to be filled to get it to work in dual channel.

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    I've not plugged it in yet as I didn't want to until had a cooler, but it did label which slots to use for 2, 4 and 8 sticks of ram

    On top of Daz, I do some pretty heavy gaming at times. I want to eventually get a good pair of high ram cards to replace my current 4GB 970 for both gaming and rendering.

    I saw that one and was considering, but it's been a bit since my last build and these coolers are a bit different than what I'm used to.

    Thank you for your input

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805

    TR is flat awful at gaming. To be able to use it for both gaming and creative tasks you'll need Ryzen Master, or be changing the BIOS all the time. Either way you'll need to set it for gaming mode when you want to game, which will require a reboot and will disable half the cores so you will definitely need to switch it back whenever you aren't gaming. Unfortunately it will need to reboot for eachswitch in mode.

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    Wow, I hadn't heard that. Seems kinda counter-productive.

    Still, it should be much better than the old athlon I have now and since my gaming is exclusively offline single player and I don't stream/twitch/whatever, hopefully it will perform up to par in that scenario. 

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    I'd also like to say I was shocked when viewing videos on the coolers for the sTR4 sockets. I learned when I first started piecing together pcs back in the mid to late 90's that you should only ever use a super thin layer of thermal paste as putting too much on hinders the heat transfer from the chip to the heatsink. Yet in these videos people were using like half a tube of thermal paste! :O

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805
    kaotkbliss said:

    I'd also like to say I was shocked when viewing videos on the coolers for the sTR4 sockets. I learned when I first started piecing together pcs back in the mid to late 90's that you should only ever use a super thin layer of thermal paste as putting too much on hinders the heat transfer from the chip to the heatsink. Yet in these videos people were using like half a tube of thermal paste! :O

    It's a very large package. The standard small dot of paste won't come anywhere close to fully covering the heat spreader. 

    On gaming the issue is the default memory access model, UMA, creates very high latency which negatively impacts game performance. Add in that many games, even more back when TR 1000 came out, choke very badly when run on a high core count CPU (simply put most games are terribly coded and would get the developers sued in the business world) and you have the makings of abysmal performance. I don't think there were any games that wouldn't even launch on the 8 core part but there were more than a few that crashed long before you got to the main menu on the 16c chip. Games that are still receiving updates or have come out since deal with lots of cores better now but many older games still struggle on even the 1900X.

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914
    edited November 2019

    I can see where 1 small dot wouldn't be enough, but the amount they were putting on was just absured. Enough that probably a good 2/3rds of what they put on would simply squish out the sides.

    Only having 8 cores in the chip I picked up, I shouldn't have to worry about it too much then.

    If I do need to switch and reboot for better performance when gaming, I usually can only game on the weekends so it would be a reboot before the weekend for gaming, then a reboot after the weekend to switch back for programming and Daz throughout the week.

    Post edited by kaotkbliss on
  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914
    edited November 2019

    Just an update since the CPU cooler came in over the weekend and I've had time to mess around a little. So far I'm pretty happy. My CPU renders are about as fast now as using the GTX 970, and I can still use my system normally while it's cpu-rendering. Also very happy I can actually use dforce now as well :)

    I haven't tested too many games yet, but the ones I have are running flawlessly.

    So now I just need to start saving up for a pair of better nVidia cards.

    Post edited by kaotkbliss on
  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805

    You should not be rendering as fast as a 970 on just 8 cores. It seems very likely that your scenes were exceeding the 970's VRAM and the renders were falling back to CPU.

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    According to the render progress window and my card usage in GPU-Z, the card was definately being used. (This was on my old system using DS 4.1 so the scene fit on my card) and took roughly 2 hours to render.

    Since I'm still waiting for a new 4.10 download from tech support, I'm on 4.12 and the same scene no longer fits on my card (Difference in the way the iray selection planes work now I think) it rendered via CPU and took roughly 2 hours to render as well when I rerendered it on the new system.

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805

    Something is wrong. I have an 8 core CPU, the 2700, which outperforms the 1900X. and renders that take 2 hours on it would take literal seconds on my 1080ti which should translate to at most a few minutes on a 970.

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    There was a huge chunk of load time before actual rendering, such as 10 minutes before the geometry was even loaded to the card., then it still had to process the textures and everything else before it even would start to render.

    I plan(ed) on running more comparissons once I can downgrade DS back to 4.10 and can render the scenes just on the card again, although it's been over 2 weeks now and no response from support.

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805
    kaotkbliss said:

    There was a huge chunk of load time before actual rendering, such as 10 minutes before the geometry was even loaded to the card., then it still had to process the textures and everything else before it even would start to render.

    I plan(ed) on running more comparissons once I can downgrade DS back to 4.10 and can render the scenes just on the card again, although it's been over 2 weeks now and no response from support.

    Sounds like you had some sort of serious issue with the drive your assets were stored on or an issue with the RAM. From my HDD to my card is usually something like a minute.

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    This was done on a pretty old Athlon 2 system.

    I've attached a screenshot of the city, if you look closely, you can see some of the Urban Future 2 buildings for scale.Just loading the city with no figures yet put DS's RAM usage to nearly 7 of the 16 GB.

    Then I'll add 1-4 G8 characters, about a dozen loretta and lorenzo characters, and a couple vehicles. I've attached a screenshot of a finished render as well.

    Environment.JPG
    730 x 552 - 105K
    Panel 004.png
    1920 x 1440 - 6M
  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805

    there's absolutely no way that was rendering on a 970. That would badly tax my 1080ti, personally I doubt it would fit at all.

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    That's where the iray selection planes came in. When they ignored geometry and textures it was also ignored from loading to the GPU. I had 5 planes surrounding the camera so everything out of view was ignored, thus allowing the scene to fit on the card.

    That was on 4.10, I skipped 4.11 and updated to 4.12 and the iray plane no longer works like that as it was a mistake, which is why I'm trying to downgrade back to 4.10

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    I managed to pull up a log file from file history and it appears I was wrong. It seems the actual render time was only 16 1/2 minutes on the GPU

    Not sure why I remember it taking a lot longer, then again this was 10 months ago and from previous renders before finding out about theselection planes, 2 hours was still pretty fast.

    info : Initializing local rendering.
    2019-02-01 15:16:03.502 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Rendering with 1 device(s):
    2019-02-01 15:16:03.502 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info :  CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 970)
    2019-02-01 15:16:03.503 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Rendering...
    2019-02-01 15:16:04.480 Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.3   IRAY   rend progr: CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 970): Processing scene...
    2019-02-01 15:16:31.759 WARNING: dzneuraymgr.cpp(307): Iray WARNING - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.2   IRAY   rend warn : RTKernel: please check the input geometry (degenerated/inefficient RT hierarchy)
    2019-02-01 15:16:44.761 WARNING: dzneuraymgr.cpp(307): Iray WARNING - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.2   IRAY   rend warn : RTKernel: please check the input geometry (degenerated/inefficient RT hierarchy)

    2019-02-01 15:16:55.424 Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.2   IRAY   rend stat : Geometry memory consumption: 994.602 MiB (device 0), 0 B (host)
    2019-02-01 15:18:45.190 Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.2   IRAY   rend stat : Texture memory consumption: 988.423 MiB (device 0)
    2019-02-01 15:18:45.197 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.2   IRAY   rend info : Initializing light hierarchy.
    2019-02-01 15:23:17.930 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.2   IRAY   rend info : Light hierarchy initialization took 272.73s
    2019-02-01 15:23:21.131 Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.2   IRAY   rend stat : Lights memory consumption: 342.338 MiB (device 0)
    2019-02-01 15:23:22.561 Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.2   IRAY   rend stat : Material measurement memory consumption: 0 B (GPU)
    2019-02-01 15:23:26.732 Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.2   IRAY   rend stat : Materials memory consumption: 55.5818 MiB (GPU)
    2019-02-01 15:23:26.765 Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.2   IRAY   rend stat : PTX code (82.1 KiB) for sm52 generated in 4.03s
    2019-02-01 15:23:29.109 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.2   IRAY   rend info : JIT-linking wavefront kernel in 1.226s
    2019-02-01 15:23:29.364 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.2   IRAY   rend info : JIT-linking mega kernel in 0.255s
    2019-02-01 15:23:29.379 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.3   IRAY   rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 970): Scene processed in 445.182s
    2019-02-01 15:23:29.544 WARNING: dzneuraymgr.cpp(307): Iray ERROR - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.3   IRAY   rend error: CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 970): out of memory (while allocating memory)
    2019-02-01 15:23:29.582 WARNING: dzneuraymgr.cpp(307): Iray ERROR - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.3   IRAY   rend error: CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 970): Failed to allocate 911.657 MiB
    2019-02-01 15:23:30.168 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.3   IRAY   rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 970): Allocated 63.2917 MiB for frame buffer
    2019-02-01 15:23:31.227 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.3   IRAY   rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 970): Allocated 620.68 MiB of work space (749k active samples in 1.059s)
    2019-02-01 15:23:31.270 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.3   IRAY   rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 970): Used for display, optimizing for interactive usage (performance could be sacrificed)
    2019-02-01 15:23:43.974 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.3   IRAY   rend info : Allocating 1 layer frame buffer
    2019-02-01 15:23:44.244 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.3   IRAY   rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 970): Allocated 122.77 MiB of work space (148k active samples in 0.005s)
    2019-02-01 15:23:44.525 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00001 iterations after 460.980s.
    2019-02-01 15:23:47.017 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00002 iterations after 463.472s.
    2019-02-01 15:23:49.482 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00003 iterations after 465.937s.
    2019-02-01 15:23:52.177 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00004 iterations after 468.633s.
    2019-02-01 15:23:54.480 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00005 iterations after 470.935s.
    2019-02-01 15:23:56.946 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00006 iterations after 473.401s.
    2019-02-01 15:23:59.616 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00007 iterations after 476.072s.
    2019-02-01 15:24:01.943 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00008 iterations after 478.398s.
    2019-02-01 15:24:06.995 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00010 iterations after 483.450s.
    2019-02-01 15:24:11.747 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00012 iterations after 488.202s.
    2019-02-01 15:24:16.758 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00014 iterations after 493.214s.
    2019-02-01 15:24:24.069 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00017 iterations after 500.525s.
    2019-02-01 15:24:31.282 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00020 iterations after 507.738s.
    2019-02-01 15:24:40.845 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00024 iterations after 517.300s.
    2019-02-01 15:24:50.463 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00028 iterations after 526.918s.
    2019-02-01 15:25:03.021 Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend progr: 12.04% of image converged
    2019-02-01 15:25:03.147 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00033 iterations after 539.603s.
    2019-02-01 15:25:17.064 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00039 iterations after 553.518s.
    2019-02-01 15:25:31.454 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00045 iterations after 567.910s.
    2019-02-01 15:25:48.233 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00052 iterations after 584.688s.
    2019-02-01 15:26:07.428 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00060 iterations after 603.883s.
    2019-02-01 15:26:29.561 Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend progr: 24.80% of image converged
    2019-02-01 15:26:29.694 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00069 iterations after 626.149s.
    2019-02-01 15:26:55.781 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00080 iterations after 652.237s.
    2019-02-01 15:27:19.794 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00090 iterations after 676.248s.
    2019-02-01 15:27:49.085 Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend progr: 31.86% of image converged
    2019-02-01 15:27:49.221 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00102 iterations after 705.676s.
    2019-02-01 15:28:23.648 Saved image: C:\Users\kaotk\AppData\Roaming\DAZ 3D\Studio4\temp\render\r.png
    2019-02-01 15:29:01.299 Finished Rendering
    2019-02-01 15:29:08.870 Total Rendering Time: 16 minutes 24.9 seconds
    2019-02-01 23:07:01.986 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Device statistics:
    2019-02-01 23:07:01.986 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 970):   102 iterations, 451.312s init, 288.730s render

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