JPEG backdrops vs HDRI
comixfana
Posts: 275
Tried my hand at HDRI backgrounds a few weeks back and gave up, to an inexperienced hobbyist such as myself, setting one up can be a pain in the rear (unless you're aiming for the psychedelic trip look ;) that's all I've been able to get) Finding 16K HDRI's to fit a specific scene can be equally frustrating - for instance, finding a Bayou scene in which to setup my wood cabin on stilts, building rooftops at night or deserted beach scenes...I'm sure there are some good ones out there somewhere, but the overall complexity made me shy away from it.
Then' there's the jpeg backdrops. Simple, easy to find images, and heck, all else fails I can make my own with my digital camera! I'm sure there are advantages to go the HDRI route, but so far I haven't been very lucky.
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I prefer the backdrops. I like HDRIs for lighting, but very few of them are large enough to look good as a background in the size images I like to create. (For example, Heart of Winter is 4700 x 2000 pixels.) They usually work okay for skies, as long as they are broken up with various objects: buildings, trees, closeups of people, etc.
And when it comes to backdrops, if you can use your own digital photos, it just makes your work that much more unique!
Is this a digital image on a plane? I found that I had problems with my objects casting shadows across the surface of the palne which, of course, looks all wrong for a landscape. Old days, using 3Delight, I seem to remember I could turn off shadows but I don't think that is possible with IRay.
Yes.
But I don't put the plane close enough for objects to cast shadows on them.
And no, it's not possible to turn off shadows with Iray.
Personally the problem I have using HDRI images as backgrounds is that all of them are taken from the same height, about a metre or more above the ground. This makes it hard to use them for some characters (small children) that are less tall than this, if you want to get a horizontal view of them, as you can't move you render camera on the vertical axis using an HDRI background. You're stuck with the Y-axis the picture was taken.
HDRIs are mostly for lighting. That they can sometimes give you a nice background, too, is a sort of bonus.
You can use HDRI to light your scene, disallow it to draw the dome, and render over a jpg backdrop. Just make sure that the light (direction, softness etc.) in your background image matches your render light.
Edited to add: The HDRIs in the store by CakeOne and Bob Callawah are made to work as backgrounds, they match the internal scaling that DS applies to HDRIs.
Have you tried here? They're pretty huge...and free. Some even have matching backplates.
https://hdrihaven.com/
I much prefer HDRI's then a simple backdrop image.
They can be used by themselves to provide the environment as seen in these images:
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/images/877121/
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/images/877126/
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/images/848416/
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/images/850081/
They can also be used to provide the lighting for an entire scene, while not having any of it seen by the camera:
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/images/833916/
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/images/851666/
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/images/879006/
And you can also mix them in with your scene:
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/images/837451/
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/images/618551
I personally dont use an HDRI over 4K. I dont see the difference to be honest.
I agree here with everything but the size. I have both 4k and 16k versions of many of the free HDRIs and once I get the scene where i want it with the 4K version, I swap it out for the 16K version since I can see a difference when using it as a background also.
I think HDRI's are great for skies and distant landscapes, or for neutral backgrounds.
For those struggling with shadows falling over their JPG backgrounds, try setting the background via Window -> Panes (Tabs) -> Environment
This is a HDRI and the only geometry used is the girl, the horse and the leaves under its hooves.
2019-09-16 16:43:45.977 Total Rendering Time: 2 hours 13 minutes 24.79 seconds
Studio 4.11
Click on image for full size.
360 environments benefit considerably in their variety and utility when used with Iray matte objects and partial in-scene reconstruction to blur the distinction between photo and render.
I don't pretend to be a master of the art, and this is a very rough WIP (a lot of the stuff is non-Iray and this is just a test render while I'm trying to fine-tune the parameters), but it illustrates the rough idea:
The platform is real (although it has a matte object to catch shadows and stop props showing through it), as are the modern locomotives and the distant background, but the tracks have been replaced with a 3D model so that shadows fall more correctly over them. For comparison, the original HDRI is here: https://hdrihaven.com/hdri/?h=dresden_station_night (And no, don't ask me why a British steam locomotive is at Dresden station. It was good enough).
There is however no Photoshop trickery (other than fixing some slight clipping on the skirt) - that's how it came out of DS.
Learning how to blend the real and fake is an important part of getting more out of any backdrop, not just 360 HDRIs.
...yes, in Iray you have to be careful as unlike 3DL, you cannot turn shadow casting off.
In my girls at the bus stop scene that I did for 3DL using HDRI Master, I actually used only part of a backdrop photo by making a mask just of the city skyline so I could use a sky HDR that gave the scene more depth. It also eliminated the shadow of the helicopter appearing upon the backdrop as what was the sky in the photo was turned into a transparency. Most of the scene is geometry (even the trees reflected in the windows of the shelter) which I prefer.
The trick with a photo compared to an HDRI environment, is making sure the lighting intensity, colour and angle (in this case the sun) match as well as that there no shadows are cast on the backdrop. The benefit is that it allows for more flexibility in design of the scene (how many times have I seen that same roadway from the Yosemite HDRI set in the galleries?).
Never got the chance to finish the Iray version as shortly afterwards was when I had the HDD crash that took everything with it.
I have to admit, I've seen some incredible images where the HDRI is the "set" with one or more well placed objects to create a scene. The image by @Fishtails above is one perfect example. So is the image by @Matt_Castle. And I agree with Matt, that learning how to blend the real and the fake is important. It's a good skill to have.
Anyway, here's an example of a PA creating a background environment for a set. This is a promo image for TangoAlpha's End of the Tracks, (currently in PC+ for a Day!) but I've got several sets that do something similar, especially Stonemason sets. (In fact, I used the ring of trees from Grimwood Manor in Heart of Winter!)
The rings are more sophisticated than a simple plane, but the idea is the same: Use a 2D image of a distant environment to add that extra bit of "realism" to the scene. There's no reason why we can't do the same with a plane. (Or add our own images to one of these props, for that matter.) The trick is to put the object far enough beyond the set that no shadows can hit it, and it doesn't cast shadows on the set.
Also, with a plane, once you have it where you want it in relation to the camera, you can parent it to the camera so it remains the same regardless of where you put the camera. Once you're happy with the camera angles and location, you can tweak the plane, if necessary. With an HDRI, if you rotate the dome for the lighting, you may not like the the background, and vice-versa.
For example, in Aftermath, (my most recent render,) I loved the dark clouds of the HDRI, but the lighting was too dark and left the people's faces in shadow. Moving the HDRI and adjusting Tone Mapping for the best light on the scene removed the dark clouds I wanted in the sky. I solved my problem by rendering the sky alone in the default position with default Tone Mapping, then adding back the Tone-Mapping and dome rotation, and rendering the scene with Draw Dome off.
But if you're using a plane for your background details, (or a ring,) the dome rotation of the HDRI isn't as critical.