Why is posing so difficult?

I think I understand other aspects like iray rendering settings, F-stop, materials, etc.

But for the life of me I am struggling to pose figures without it becoming frustrating! Also, the figures themselves do not seem to have a "lock" that restricts posing to what is humanly possible (for example, 360° rotation on hands, etc.).

Does anyone have any quick tips for posing quicker and convincingly?

Comments

  • AabacusAabacus Posts: 148

    When you are first starting out the posing is challenging.  

    First thing...turn ON limits. You're seeing that weird movement because you've turned off limits somehow. I'm away from my desktop so I can't advise how to ensure it's turned on for the whole character but you can.  

    Second, I prefer to ensure IK is OFF. Inverse kinematics are, IMHO, a more advanced solution.  

    Third, I always pose with the dials on the side and only go to mouse based for the finest control. You can do the same with the dial by punching in numbers. After some time you'll get an understanding of how the human body moves.

    Fourth, my recommendation is always go from the gross movements first (start by using a shoulder to get the arm in the right direction, then the upper arm, then the lower then the hand, then fingers...as an example.) My personal approach is to use the fewest amount of changes to get the pose where I want it. That means I tend to start with rotating the whole figure, then the type of bend at the waist to the chest then moving out from there. 

    Fifth, you really need to understand the kind of movements you are doing. Bending a neck, for example, you need to determine if you're just looking down or bending your head forward and looking down. They act and look different. Sometimes you distribute bends across all three neck nodes and other times it's just the head. 

    Sixth, I try and modify every node a little. That is to say I don't leave things in the default pose. That said, this isn't a hard rule so just move what makes sense but be sure to look at all portions of the figure.  

    Seventh, use pre made poses and work out. If you need someone sitting then pick a sitting pose and work from that.  

    Eighth, if you will be doing a series of images I will pose one then do the next scenes and the next fairly quickly without any of the finer posing. That way if I find myself in a corner I've not wasted a ton of time getting a pinky just right. 

    Ninth, look at the gallery or other pictures of people and see which ones really tell a story. Then consider what it is about that pose that tells the story (just the pose!) then recreate that in your poses.  

    Tenth, and this is going to feel silly, be sure to try poses out on yourself then try and replicate them. Figure out how your own thumbs move so you can figure out what dial connects to what movement. It's possible you can't literally move the way you want.  

    Eleventh, spend some time getting to understand how each part of the body moves. The arm for example is weird, IMHO, as the "bend" of the upper arm acts different depending on whether your arm is forward or down or backwards. Be sure to explore what twists do for you.  

    Twelfth, look at your figure from multiple angles either with multiple panes (Top/Front/Left) or just spin around with your perspective camera to see.  

    Thirteenth, it takes a lot of time to pose just right. Take the time. You can easily discern between low effort poses and ones that people really worked on.

    Fourteenth, there are no shortcuts. Spend time with the program and get used to everything! 

     

    Good luck!

  • Aabacus' advice is top.
    I'd add - more a variant than something different: try to interpret it as learning to draw or sculpt. Begin with copying a pose you like. It can be a statue, a photograph, whatever. And try to grasp what is happening. In fact: for an absolute beginner it is even best to start with doing only partial things, like only the torso with hips and shoulders. If that works well, add the neck and the head, then legs, arms and finally hands, feet and expressions.
    And don't be intimidated: we learn as we play.

     

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 8,301
     

    Does anyone have any quick tips for posing quicker and convincingly?

    use the dials to pose, not the universal ball tool in the scene. it's much more precise with the dials

  • QuixotryQuixotry Posts: 558
    edited October 2019

    Posing 3D figures takes practice, and there are several ways to do it, so it can also be a matter of figuring out what you like best. If you absolutely hate posing, there are a lot of purchasable and freebie pose sets out there that can help. Sometimes finding a good set of poses to use as "starting points" can be a help. For doing it yourself, the comment above is right; the dials do give you much better control. There's  also the PowerPose feature, which I use a lot along with the pose dials. I find PowerPose good for big movements (such as moving the entire arm or leg) and the dials good for more precise changes.  You can also check out this product: https://www.daz3d.com/pose-architect-for-genesis-8-females It has other addons as well, and is an excellent posing product.

    Post edited by Quixotry on
  • Also when you start posing remember to choose Currently used in the Pose tab to quickly see what poses you have and need to change.
     

  • rrwardrrward Posts: 267

    I pose figures about as well as I sing. And my singing voice can sterilize frogs at 50 meters. So, I start with a premade pose that is close to what I want and modify that to suit my needs.

  • That's probably my greatest problem when i make a scene. 

    rrward said:

    I pose figures about as well as I sing. And my singing voice can sterilize frogs at 50 meters. So, I start with a premade pose that is close to what I want and modify that to suit my needs.

    That's the best method, i think. 

  • TreyMTreyM Posts: 31
    Aabacus said:

    When you are first starting out the posing is challenging.  

    First thing...turn ON limits. You're seeing that weird movement because you've turned off limits somehow. I'm away from my desktop so I can't advise how to ensure it's turned on for the whole character but you can.  

    Second, I prefer to ensure IK is OFF. Inverse kinematics are, IMHO, a more advanced solution.  

    Third, I always pose with the dials on the side and only go to mouse based for the finest control. You can do the same with the dial by punching in numbers. After some time you'll get an understanding of how the human body moves.

    Fourth, my recommendation is always go from the gross movements first (start by using a shoulder to get the arm in the right direction, then the upper arm, then the lower then the hand, then fingers...as an example.) My personal approach is to use the fewest amount of changes to get the pose where I want it. That means I tend to start with rotating the whole figure, then the type of bend at the waist to the chest then moving out from there. 

    Fifth, you really need to understand the kind of movements you are doing. Bending a neck, for example, you need to determine if you're just looking down or bending your head forward and looking down. They act and look different. Sometimes you distribute bends across all three neck nodes and other times it's just the head. 

    Sixth, I try and modify every node a little. That is to say I don't leave things in the default pose. That said, this isn't a hard rule so just move what makes sense but be sure to look at all portions of the figure.  

    Seventh, use pre made poses and work out. If you need someone sitting then pick a sitting pose and work from that.  

    Eighth, if you will be doing a series of images I will pose one then do the next scenes and the next fairly quickly without any of the finer posing. That way if I find myself in a corner I've not wasted a ton of time getting a pinky just right. 

    Ninth, look at the gallery or other pictures of people and see which ones really tell a story. Then consider what it is about that pose that tells the story (just the pose!) then recreate that in your poses.  

    Tenth, and this is going to feel silly, be sure to try poses out on yourself then try and replicate them. Figure out how your own thumbs move so you can figure out what dial connects to what movement. It's possible you can't literally move the way you want.  

    Eleventh, spend some time getting to understand how each part of the body moves. The arm for example is weird, IMHO, as the "bend" of the upper arm acts different depending on whether your arm is forward or down or backwards. Be sure to explore what twists do for you.  

    Twelfth, look at your figure from multiple angles either with multiple panes (Top/Front/Left) or just spin around with your perspective camera to see.  

    Thirteenth, it takes a lot of time to pose just right. Take the time. You can easily discern between low effort poses and ones that people really worked on.

    Fourteenth, there are no shortcuts. Spend time with the program and get used to everything! 

     

    Good luck!

    Amazing advice, many thanks! :D

  • DekeDeke Posts: 1,336

    Also:  remember to start witht he big body moves (hips, abdomen, etc) and then work to smaller moved. I animate, so I want to move the body from point A to point B, and then work out details after those bigger moves.

    And the best tip I got: you can highlight a few adjoining joints and use that ball/rings controler to move all of them at the same time. I often use that for torso control and neck/head control. It really beats having to select and adjust one joint at a time.

  • Dave230Dave230 Posts: 476
    edited November 2019

    Learn how to use the Symmetry tool, found in the Parameters panel, under the menubar icon.  Why waste time posing both sides, when you can just pose one side, and copy it over to the other side?  It also lets you create mirror poses, which is a big timer saver. And you don't have to use the Symmetry tool to always get symmetrical poses.  You can use it to flip one side to the other as a starting point, or use it as a way to clear out a side that is poorly posed.

    Post edited by Dave230 on
  • DDCreateDDCreate Posts: 1,129

    Abacus is dead on. I use every one of those techniques when I am posing including actual doing the pose myself. It might make you feel a little silly at first but when you do it and realize "Ohhhhh, it's actually my shoulder causing that!" We don't analyze our movements w just know how to do them so this is a geat exercise to step outside of your head.

    Also, Erik Heyninck's comment is great practice. There are plenty of times I'll be in a Daz mood but am not really moved to go full on crazy. Those are the times I just practice posing. I use Martial Arts techniques often in my renders and I have three books and a little book stand. I just flip through them and find a good, dynamic pose and then tink tink tink away at it until I have it right. Then SAVE! You just made your very own unique pose.

    At the end of the day, it really is all about practice. I'm not what I call a pro and I started with ZERO experience but you get there. I was trying to explain Daz to a friend of mine recently and decided to just show her. So I fired up the program and just started whizzing away and made a pretty basic version of her and I on my couch like we had been. After a few minutes she was looking at me like I was a space alien. "How in the hell did you learn to do all of THAT?!!" You'll be wowing people in no time too.

  • It is also useful to build up a library of stock poses, so your figure can be set in a position close to the one you want, making posing quicker too.

    Many poses can be obtained for nothing - Renderosity Freestuff has quite a selection. Some are very good, others less so, but if they get you close to what you want more quickly who's complaining?

    Regards,

    Richard.

     

  • These can be useful if you want to start over but not the whole figure.

    https://www.deviantart.com/spyrorue/art/G8F-Reset-Poses-700458001?d=31&modal=welcomeback

    https://www.deviantart.com/spyrorue/art/G8M-Reset-Poses-700458300

    This helps you mix existing poses and even has lock poses. https://www.daz3d.com/ultimate-pose-mixer

  • Some great advice here.

    Something I'd add is to make use of the "Pose Controls" sliders, as well as the individual joints. They're particularly useful for hands. Say you want a character to hold a sword in his right hand, but you don't have a pre-made pose for it. Position the sword in the right palm, then dial in "Right Hand Fist" to about 55%. You can then fine tune the position of the sword and one or two joints as required. I also tend to use the neck pose controls - Neck-Head Bend, Neck-Head Side-Side and Neck-Head Twist - as they move all the neck and head bones at once to achieve the desired movement.

    When you're done putting a pose together with pose controls, you can select Edit > Figure > Bake to Transforms... (or press Shift-B) to convert the pose control-generated values to pure joint bends. This is probably worth doing if saving as a pose preset, I very rarely bother when it's just a normal scene.

    Also, next time it's on sale, I highly recommend getting this tutorial: https://www.daz3d.com/the-art-of-posing

  • odasteinodastein Posts: 382

     

    When you're done putting a pose together with pose controls, you can select Edit > Figure > Bake to Transforms... (or press Shift-B) to convert the pose control-generated values to pure joint bends. This is probably worth doing if saving as a pose preset, I very rarely bother when it's just a normal scene.

    I don't get it. What is the difference between the pose you've created and the pose after "baking"? 

  • DDCreateDDCreate Posts: 1,129
    odastein said:

     

    When you're done putting a pose together with pose controls, you can select Edit > Figure > Bake to Transforms... (or press Shift-B) to convert the pose control-generated values to pure joint bends. This is probably worth doing if saving as a pose preset, I very rarely bother when it's just a normal scene.

    I don't get it. What is the difference between the pose you've created and the pose after "baking"? 

    Yeah. What odastein said.

  • marblemarble Posts: 4,025

    It is also useful to build up a library of stock poses, so your figure can be set in a position close to the one you want, making posing quicker too.

    Many poses can be obtained for nothing - Renderosity Freestuff has quite a selection. Some are very good, others less so, but if they get you close to what you want more quickly who's complaining?

    Regards,

    Richard.

     

    Yep - in addition to the good advice from Abacus, this is what I do too. I have a bunch of commercial poses, many of them converted from earlier Genesis figures, but I use them as starters - something close to what I'm looking for. From then on, the Abacus method is also mine ... use the parameter sliders, numeric values and even editing the parameters to change the "Nudge" value for better precision. After a while, it becomes second nature.

  • Very good post, Aabacus. I agree with all the points and it was clear, cogent, and well-organized, plus you also covered the aspect of the artist's "attitude" toward their work (which is equally important). Well done.

  • carrie58carrie58 Posts: 2,770
    DDCreate said:
    odastein said:

     

    When you're done putting a pose together with pose controls, you can select Edit > Figure > Bake to Transforms... (or press Shift-B) to convert the pose control-generated values to pure joint bends. This is probably worth doing if saving as a pose preset, I very rarely bother when it's just a normal scene.

    I don't get it. What is the difference between the pose you've created and the pose after "baking"? 

    Yeah. What odastein said.

     

    When you use the pose dials such as "fingers grasp" that is a pose control cause it bends all the fingers at once ,if you want to save that pose then you must "Bake to Transforms" so the Pose controller is broke down into the indivual rotations ,then when you save the pose ,you "save all rotations" . and it saves your pose nice and neatly.

     

  • RobinsonRobinson Posts: 276

    It is frustrating at first, yes.  I would do two things: (1) use the activepose tool (the bone icon) to drag bodyparts around with IK and (2) press spacebar on a selected node in the scene to "pin" it.  With those two things nailed posing becomes a lot easier.  Adjustments like fingers, feet, head/neck and so on use the dials on the right (bend, twist, etc.).

  • lvls3dxlvls3dx Posts: 34
    edited December 2019

    I would like to add my two cents:

    learn by heart the hot-keys for changing your mouse pointer tools and use them that way.

    Look for some asset that freezes different parts of the body, in order to only modify the exact part you want without messing with others.

    The bone tools also works great for the same point above.

    remember that your pose only needs to look perfect for the current camera angle you are using. cheat if you need.

    postwork will always be an option.

    Really use premade poses, or buy assets. If you can make your own library with more general names like satanding, sitting, laying, etc. and mix all your assets like that. Maybe it will take you some time, but later will be worth it.

    good luck to all the people trying to improve!

    Post edited by lvls3dx on
  • TreyMTreyM Posts: 31
    Robinson said:

    It is frustrating at first, yes.  I would do two things: (1) use the activepose tool (the bone icon) to drag bodyparts around with IK and (2) press spacebar on a selected node in the scene to "pin" it.  With those two things nailed posing becomes a lot easier.  Adjustments like fingers, feet, head/neck and so on use the dials on the right (bend, twist, etc.).

    Yes, I recently discovered this technique and find this easily the best method. The resulting poses look more lifelike than the other methods I tried.

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