Why not make Bryce Free?

Eva1Eva1 Posts: 1,118

Considering that DS is free, ad now that Hexagon is free also (great move I think), I'm wondering why Bryce isn't free also. I don't think it's a stretch to say it's not being developed anymore, and it's an older program, but still useable ( If the bridge was made a bit more stable it could be pushed as a great add-on to DS for making landscapes). Sure it's not that expensive, but people are more likely to take a look at it and play around with it if it was free.

Your thoughts?

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Comments

  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,749

    Eva1 - It's not actually expensive at $19.95 without discount but considering that Daz didn't touch it in over 8 years it wouldn't be amiss to give it away for free - or make it at least 10 times more expensive and give it a go to remove the bugs and bring it up to date.

  • Eva1Eva1 Posts: 1,118
    Horo said:

    Eva1 - It's not actually expensive at $19.95 without discount but considering that Daz didn't touch it in over 8 years it wouldn't be amiss to give it away for free - or make it at least 10 times more expensive and give it a go to remove the bugs and bring it up to date.

    Bringing up to date would be awesome, but I doubt it'll happen:(

  • akmerlowakmerlow Posts: 553
    Eva1 said:

    Bringing up to date would be awesome, but I doubt it'll happen:(

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,672

    according to DAZ-Deals it got down to $6 this year

    surely that's not too rich for you cheeky

  • akmerlowakmerlow Posts: 553

    Btw, Eva1, any materials packs from you in the future once more time? :)

  • srieschsriesch Posts: 4,060
    edited October 6
    Eva1 said:

    Considering that DS is free, ad now that Hexagon is free also (great move I think), I'm wondering why Bryce isn't free also. I don't think it's a stretch to say it's not being developed anymore, and it's an older program, but still useable ( If the bridge was made a bit more stable it could be pushed as a great add-on to DS for making landscapes). Sure it's not that expensive, but people are more likely to take a look at it and play around with it if it was free.

    Your thoughts?

      All else being equal, free would probably increase the number of people who use it, since some haven't purchased it due to financial reasons.  This would translate to a larger user base, and potentially more sales for Bryce venders.  But how much more? a hundred more?  2 more? none becuase it has been so cheap durring sales everybody with more than $6 has already purchased it and those without $6 never will anyway?  We don't know.

      Free would lower the percieved value of the software in the minds of the few who believe that cost directly relates to quality or value.  I don't know how many of these people are out there, but I've seen comments to this effect and know that there are at least a few.  These users will be discouraged from using it, oddly.  This would translate to a smaller user base.  I would assume not very many of these and less loss than gain from the line above, but don't know.

      Free would reduce the income gained from selling the software.  How many copies of Bryce get sold these days, and at what price (since not everybody knows about deeply discounted sales)?  Not sure.  Will the financial loss be balanced by the financial gain (if any) of increased content sales?  I don't know.

      Free would perhaps reduce the percieved value of the software to potential future software owners who might purchase it and consider releasing a new version.  I have unfortunately long ago given up all hope of DAZ ever releasing a new version nor selling it to somebody who would, but technically the possibility really is still there even if very slim.

      So final answer: maybe, and I bet it would a little, but maybe not, and who knows?  Not I.

     

    Post edited by sriesch on
  • srieschsriesch Posts: 4,060

    Back to your DS add-on tool, if it were made free, what if it were automatically bundled into a future version of DS with it's terrain editor icon prominently displayed in DS in order to start the bridge?  Would we gain a user base from people who didn't even know or care about the existence of Bryce as a separate piece of software but would be interested in the new DS feature of the "Bryce terrain editor plugin"?  Chohole, I know you're about to hit me with a stick for suggesting Bryce as a DS plugin rather than the other way around... Just think of DS as a reverse-Bryce plugin.  :-)

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,672
    edited October 6
    sriesch said:

    Back to your DS add-on tool, if it were made free, what if it were automatically bundled into a future version of DS with it's terrain editor icon prominently displayed in DS in order to start the bridge?  Would we gain a user base from people who didn't even know or care about the existence of Bryce as a separate piece of software but would be interested in the new DS feature of the "Bryce terrain editor plugin"?  Chohole, I know you're about to hit me with a stick for suggesting Bryce as a DS plugin rather than the other way around... Just think of DS as a reverse-Bryce plugin.  :-)

    I have said this about Carrara and the same person everytime complains that it would make DAZ studio too bloated for him, suggesting a separate  ultimate version that costs with Carrara (or Bryce and Hexagon) integrated even ensured more protests from this user!

    Even though a free version without would exist, just doesn't want others to have tools they don't use.

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • SlepalexSlepalex Posts: 729
    Eva1 said:

    Considering that DS is free, ad now that Hexagon is free also (great move I think), I'm wondering why Bryce isn't free also. I don't think it's a stretch to say it's not being developed anymore, and it's an older program, but still useable ( If the bridge was made a bit more stable it could be pushed as a great add-on to DS for making landscapes). Sure it's not that expensive, but people are more likely to take a look at it and play around with it if it was free.

    Your thoughts?

    I got the version of Bryce 7.1 Pro for free. Where were you at that time?

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,672
    Slepalex said:
    Eva1 said:

    Considering that DS is free, ad now that Hexagon is free also (great move I think), I'm wondering why Bryce isn't free also. I don't think it's a stretch to say it's not being developed anymore, and it's an older program, but still useable ( If the bridge was made a bit more stable it could be pushed as a great add-on to DS for making landscapes). Sure it's not that expensive, but people are more likely to take a look at it and play around with it if it was free.

    Your thoughts?

    I got the version of Bryce 7.1 Pro for free. Where were you at that time?

    Think I got it free too, hard to tell, 3 things in order and total was $5.99

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,700
    Slepalex said:
    Eva1 said:

    Considering that DS is free, ad now that Hexagon is free also (great move I think), I'm wondering why Bryce isn't free also. I don't think it's a stretch to say it's not being developed anymore, and it's an older program, but still useable ( If the bridge was made a bit more stable it could be pushed as a great add-on to DS for making landscapes). Sure it's not that expensive, but people are more likely to take a look at it and play around with it if it was free.

    Your thoughts?

    I got the version of Bryce 7.1 Pro for free. Where were you at that time?

     

    I bought the Bryce 7 Pro upgrade from Bryce 6 in 2010 for 21 Dollars - and two years later the full non-upgrade version for free ... (so yes: I have two Bryce serial numbers)

     

  • mermaid010mermaid010 Posts: 2,552
    edited October 12

    Whether Bryce should be free no not, that's Daz decision. The only reasons I am using this awesome program 1 - I got it for free, 2 - David and Horo have put up magnificent tutorials, videos and scripts, 3- there is a vast variety of free 3D models that can be used in Bryce. I downloaded a few versions of Daz over the years, but failed to understand this program. There were times I wondered by Daz was free and Bryce was not.

    My Monday morning 10 cents wink

    Post edited by mermaid010 on
  • I got it when offered for free and yes I bought a copy. I have been a cad user since it started and found bryce and yes bought a copy of bryce 4 back in thee day. I even got the bryce 5 free. I like the ease of use compared to 3d studio and a few other rendering engines. I perfer 3d modling in my cad programs becauce thats what I know and made a living at. I am recovering from  a motherboard dieing in my main work station I am waiting on cables to get my data off the hard drives from the dead computer. I had a hard drive die with a lot of work and data such as model library and props never got it to where I could save the lost work. Some was backed up on the 2 drives I need to wake up and strip of data. I am shopping around for a used quad core box with a decent vid card. I lucked out my brother inlaw gave a laptop I am using at present. I will be getting a dedocated work station first of next mont. I wannt to thank all who shared knowledge on the ways to use the daz software. I also like the fact 3D is a way of life for some of us. I haveused the bryce for 3d images for my clients and for fun. I am trying to get into selling my images I create. I was doing freelance drafting advertising on craigslsit and yes I got some work from it. Next month aftere the work straqtion gets set up be advertising on criags again and see where that goes. Kudos to all who enjoy making blank screnes come alive with images from imaginations I now if I can get the hang of using blender other than porting models  I will be ok.

  • JD_MortalJD_Mortal Posts: 644
    edited November 25

    Actually, it was free, for a while... That is how I got it. (December 21, 2012) Haven't used it since 6.0, but it was a nightmare to try to figure-out, back then. I didn't like how it displayed my height-maps with such limited resolution and the odd triangle pattern that it used. (I actually created "this" account, just for that purpose. It is filled only with all the free items that Daz offers. The other account I use, is for paid content and unrelated to this account.)

    Bryce, Hexagon and Daz 3D Pro, could be all be acquired at once. It was Bryce 6.0, which later got a free update to 7.0.

    It's funny, on the invoice, it says Daz $249.95, Hex $19.95, Bryce $19.95 = $289.85, then it says, Discount -$39.90 = Grand Total $0.00

    I'm no math genious, but $289.85 - $39.90 is not $0.00 (Obviously they didn't remove the $289.85, in the "bill", but they did... :P )

    I am sure that, one day, it may become free again, or a better alternative will replace it, built into Daz.

    Post edited by JD_Mortal on
  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 1,833
    edited November 29
    Horo said:

    Eva1 - It's not actually expensive at $19.95 without discount but considering that Daz didn't touch it in over 8 years it wouldn't be amiss to give it away for free - or make it at least 10 times more expensive and give it a go to remove the bugs and bring it up to date.

    I would gladly pay upwards of $100 for a real and truly upgraded, updated, BUG-FIXED, and 64-bit version of Bryce.  The way it is now is NOT WORKING for me, so I don't use it.

    sriesch said:
    Eva1 said:

    Considering that DS is free, ad now that Hexagon is free also (great move I think), I'm wondering why Bryce isn't free also. I don't think it's a stretch to say it's not being developed anymore, and it's an older program, but still useable ( If the bridge was made a bit more stable it could be pushed as a great add-on to DS for making landscapes). Sure it's not that expensive, but people are more likely to take a look at it and play around with it if it was free.

    Your thoughts?

      All else being equal, free would probably increase the number of people who use it...

    Increasing the number of people who use it doesn't fix any of its underlying problems, bugs, or obsolete 32 bit code.  Therefore, making it free won't do anything for me as a DAZ customer and PC member.

    Making it free would not be beneficial to anybody.  It's nearly free now and it's ancient, bug-riddled, and is still 16 Bit.  Oh wait, is it really 32 Bit?  I'm only partly joking here, and I'm not far off.  Bryce could use a good modernization effort.

    Indeed, fixing the damned thing and making it 64 Bit would be good for me.   And it would be good for you...and you...and you...and her over there...and those dudes standing in the corner behind me...  Saying it should be free is the WRONG way to go.

    Being super-cheap right now has not enabled DAZ to improve the program and actually bring it into the 21st century.  It's still running all that old Kai Krause code, and we haven't seen nor heard from him since he bought his castle on the Rhine or wherever that was. 

    I feel strongly about this.  DAZ saved Bryce from Corel, but then doomed Bryce to the ultimate sin of neglect.

    DAZ needs to shape up and do the right thing for Bryce.  I propose a new name, "Bryce 2020".  64-Bit with full plug-in capability between DAZ Studio and Hexagon (not Carrara unless they're going to upgrade that program too). 

    Just think of all the clever marketing tag lines that opens up and tell me that's not a prime opportunity.

    And as far as I'm concerned, that's worth some money.  I'm ready DAZ.  Are you?

    Post edited by Subtropic Pixel on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,672

    honestly I would pay $300 for a 64bit Bryce with iray

  • honestly I would pay $300 for a 64bit Bryce with iray

    I'd surely consider it if it had multiple renderers, could make use of networked rendering machines, and could interface with Blender too.

    I can't believe there are not several business reasons for keeping it around and then putting some developers on it.  But then again, I just noticed that the latest beta for Hexagon was issued in July. 

    That is, July 2018.  We have seen NOTHING in 18 months.  That is not good, and it sure doesn't bode well for Bryce's fortune.

    Maybe DAZ should consider selling the code to somebody who would be willing to take it to open source.  That would be better than seeing NOTHING happen for Bryce for over a decade.  Right now, the state of Bryce just makes me sad.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,168

    honestly I would pay $300 for a 64bit Bryce with iray

    I'd surely consider it if it had multiple renderers, could make use of networked rendering machines, and could interface with Blender too.

    I can't believe there are not several business reasons for keeping it around and then putting some developers on it.  But then again, I just noticed that the latest beta for Hexagon was issued in July. 

    That is, July 2018.  We have seen NOTHING in 18 months.  That is not good, and it sure doesn't bode well for Bryce's fortune.

    Maybe DAZ should consider selling the code to somebody who would be willing to take it to open source.  That would be better than seeing NOTHING happen for Bryce for over a decade.  Right now, the state of Bryce just makes me sad.

    It already has built in multi renderers, it also has an built ability to run a render farm called Bryce lightning.  Bryce is still a joy to use, for those who do actually use it.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,749

    honestly I would pay $300 for a 64bit Bryce with iray

    Yes to $300 but NO NO NO to Iray. Bryce as 2 excellent raytracing render engines, no shadow, specular, reflection baking on the shaders necessary as is for path-tracers. Unsurprisingly, raytracers are slower than path-tracers because they are less un-accurate. But then, Bryce can use all computers on your home network to render a scene and you can set how much of the processor power is assigned to the render so the computer(s) are still available to do other work. My wish for Bryce: re-include the Mac, debug, make it 64 bit and optimise the code to speed up the render engines but keep it CPU.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,168
    Horo said:

    honestly I would pay $300 for a 64bit Bryce with iray

    Yes to $300 but NO NO NO to Iray. Bryce as 2 excellent raytracing render engines, no shadow, specular, reflection baking on the shaders necessary as is for path-tracers. Unsurprisingly, raytracers are slower than path-tracers because they are less un-accurate. But then, Bryce can use all computers on your home network to render a scene and you can set how much of the processor power is assigned to the render so the computer(s) are still available to do other work. My wish for Bryce: re-include the Mac, debug, make it 64 bit and optimise the code to speed up the render engines but keep it CPU.

    +1

  • SlepalexSlepalex Posts: 729
    Horo said:

    honestly I would pay $300 for a 64bit Bryce with iray

    Yes to $300 but NO NO NO to Iray. Bryce as 2 excellent raytracing render engines, no shadow, specular, reflection baking on the shaders necessary as is for path-tracers. Unsurprisingly, raytracers are slower than path-tracers because they are less un-accurate. But then, Bryce can use all computers on your home network to render a scene and you can set how much of the processor power is assigned to the render so the computer(s) are still available to do other work. My wish for Bryce: re-include the Mac, debug, make it 64 bit and optimise the code to speed up the render engines but keep it CPU.

    Yes!

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,672

    odd how you all want to stick to CPU though devil

    I already use my favourite program Carrara with a GPU renderer Octane

    I do use the other engines too but I like the choice

  • srieschsriesch Posts: 4,060

    I would also drop $300 for a 64-bit version of Bryce, provided it was thoroughly tested and ran as well as the current version.  

    Of course, assuming it is technically possible for the existing code to be modified to be 64-bit (or the entire thing discarded then re-written in a new language with debugging starting over from scratch, yikes, wouldn't suggest that route but it's possible), the long-term income earned by sales on Bryce and/or additional Bryce products has to be enough to exceed the pay of a team of software engineers for however many years it takes to write/modify/test/debug, as is true for all software of course.  The point being significant motiviation and clear payback on the huge investment is needed to take on such a significant project.  We've been wishing in this forum for a long time, but wishing obviously doesn't make it work.  Somebody has to suggest an idea or tactic or change that hasn't been presented (or seen) yet that is way beyond anything we've ever said to convince those in charge that it will work.  If you want it to happen, put on your thinking caps and start suggesting bigger and better reasons to the right people rather than just endlessly hoping.  I, unfortunately, haven't been able to come up with anything good.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,168

    odd how you all want to stick to CPU though devil

    I already use my favourite program Carrara with a GPU renderer Octane

    I do use the other engines too but I like the choice

    I run my various versions of Bryce on a computer which cost less money to build than Iray afficionados pay for just one of their multiple GPUs.
     

     

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,672
    Chohole said:

    odd how you all want to stick to CPU though devil

    I already use my favourite program Carrara with a GPU renderer Octane

    I do use the other engines too but I like the choice

    I run my various versions of Bryce on a computer which cost less money to build than Iray afficionados pay for just one of their multiple GPUs.
     

     

    OK Boomer cheeky

    does that work if I am a boomer too?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,168
    edited November 30
    Chohole said:

    odd how you all want to stick to CPU though devil

    I already use my favourite program Carrara with a GPU renderer Octane

    I do use the other engines too but I like the choice

    I run my various versions of Bryce on a computer which cost less money to build than Iray afficionados pay for just one of their multiple GPUs.
     

     

    OK Boomer cheeky

    does that work if I am a boomer too?

    ?

    The world was still at war when I was born

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,749
    edited December 1

    odd how you all want to stick to CPU though devil

    I already use my favourite program Carrara with a GPU renderer Octane

    I do use the other engines too but I like the choice

    A GPU can (currently) not render using raytracing, only path-tracing. Reflecting surfaces mirror the object in front of them but do not reflect light. If an object is lit from behind, it appears unlit in the mirror. So you place a light behind the mirror to fake reflecting light. You need to be careful with placing the light so that the object is not illuminated face-on but according to how it would be lit in a true mirror depending on where the light source actually is.

    Bryce can illuminate an object by light reflection in a mirror. The picture shows the scene above with the sun (a bright light source in the HDRI) at right. This sun is reflected in the mirror and it illuminates the face of the object that faces the mirror, not the sun. Looking at the picture below at left could make you think the object is illuminated and shown so in the mirror (at left mirror, at right object). When the mirror is removed (lower right), only the ambient light remains and there is no strong sunlight on the face of the object.

    Bryce Light

     

    MirrorExample.jpg
    800 x 640 - 77K
    Post edited by Horo on
  • SlepalexSlepalex Posts: 729
    Horo said:
    Bryce can illuminate an object by light reflection in a mirror. The picture shows the scene above with the sun (a bright light source in the HDRI) at right. This sun is reflected in the mirror and it illuminates the face of the object that faces the mirror, not the sun. Looking at the picture below at left could make you think the object is illuminated and shown so in the mirror (at left mirror, at right object). When the mirror is removed (lower right), only the ambient light remains and there is no strong sunlight on the face of the object.

     

    I do not believe! 

  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,749

    Slepalex - try it yourself, obscure lighting method does the trick.

  • SlepalexSlepalex Posts: 729
    Horo said:

    Slepalex - try it yourself, obscure lighting method does the trick.

    I have already tried it. The result is negative.

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