Could we have a FAQ of most usual situations that may make Bryce crash?

akmerlowakmerlow Posts: 667
edited September 2019 in Bryce Discussion

Can we do a list of things to be aware of, as things that have high possibility of making Bryce go out of memory or else? And with advised solutions for situations.

What i noticed recently:

- if i edit existing terrain in TE, and then "undo" on main screen, i often get crash, so i save scene before revisiting terrains in te and revert to saved instead of undo if needed.

If anyone can confirm same behavior, than this 'll be added to list. Sorry if there is already such a thread.

Other stuff i think about..

- i've not tried anything, but something something with displacement experiments, i've read that you might not use setting higher than specific value for stable work

- and now, i just had crash which i don't understand what exactly was a reason (i haven't pressed "send report", sadly):

I bridged genesis 8 (which i set to base resolution, does that even help?) and clothes from DS; i removed all genesis figure materials but kept clothing textures. Then i did multireplicate to have 40 instances. I got slowdown in viewport, btw. I got crash.. when i decided to change camera FOV from 60 to 120. I wonder if i got to memory limit (is that cause i kept image textures on clothing?) or some bug... EDIT: weirdly, tried again and have no problems - around 250 mb ram usage, ~5 million polys of instances. Maybe i forgot some steps that lead to mistakes.

 

Post edited by akmerlow on

Comments

  • HoroHoro Posts: 7,165

    akmerlow - to use displacement without crash, you have to set render Priority to LOW. The finished file must either be be saved with Low priority or you start Bryce, set priority to low, then load the file. The finished scene with displacement can be rendered in normal or high priority. Just don't change any displacement value.

    Instancing: check that the instanced object shows a dashed line in the wireframe view. Grouped objects will not not be instanced but copied. An object with a connected line in the wireframe is not an instance but a copy. By the way, an object that shows a dotted line in the wireframe is Negative, not Neutral or Positive.

    The TE has only one undo level. If you go back to the main screen, undo a terrain may bring you problems.

    If you have a lot of multi replicated objects in the scene have them shown as box.

  • Thank you for explanations on these cases!

    Instancing: check that the instanced object shows a dashed line in the wireframe view

    I checked my 2nd scene (which was without problems) and objects are indeed dashed, though it's hard to notice at first due to bryce's way of showing complex objects.

    If you have a lot of multi replicated objects in the scene have them shown as box.

    I also see that Bryce does auto-load in viewpoirt for me when i move camera or objects.

    By the way, an object that shows a dotted line in the wireframe is Negative, not Neutral or Positive.

    Speaking of boolean, is it possible to interact with each instance with another object, or it could be done only to original?

  • mermaid010mermaid010 Posts: 2,817
    edited September 2019

    Nice thread thanks for starting it. smiley

    I use to have lots of crashing, leaving the mat lab or even the terrain editor, moving multiple objects, but this problem got solved after I installed the LAA.

    Post edited by mermaid010 on
  • Advice here seems golden!

  • akmerlowakmerlow Posts: 667
    edited September 2019

    I was playing with random replicate lately. I got no problems with relatively small number of copies, but got crash when tried to get 500 instance copies in 900x200x900 space. However that happened when i enabled all options: instance, collision detection, land object and constrain rotation to y-axis. Without additional helping settings i could random instance just fine.  I decided to check combinations with instance step by step.

    "Only land objects" doesn't give problem. "Only restrain rotation" doesn't give problem. "Land and restrain rotation" checked together works fine too.

    "Only collision detected" makes Bryce knocked out (Bryce isn't responding...) a bit, but after waiting it's ok. "Collision detection and restrict rotation" together gives same result (wait and see). "Collision detection and land objects" together worked even better, without Bryce going freezed. 

    Now, when i try to have all (collision, rotation, land) random instance in 900x200x900 with 500 copies i get crash. Combinations above were tested in such big space.

    However, in 200x200x200 space i get 500 instance copies number put with all setting enabled without problem, as you don't get 500 in small space with collision detection, but it also works fine and gives you 500 instances in that space without detection. So i think that Bryce crashes if he is tasked to calculate all this settings in big space, but manages to do it in smaller space (i think it places less copies to fill it*). Some more tests, again with 500 instances number though it will give less actually depending on space:

    300x200x300 = OK

    400x200x400 = OK

    500x200x500 = OK

    600x200x600 = Bryce doesn't respond a bit, then OK

    700x200x700 and 800x200x800 i got the same.

    Then i did 900x200x900 twice. First time i got OK, second time i got CRASH.

    In 850x200x850 it's OK. I did it several times and it worked.

    Then i tried less number of copies in 900x200x900 random replicate all settings on command.

    250n = OK

    350n = OK after wait

    450n = OK after wait

    475n = same

    490n = same

    ____________________

    *If you do 999 copies in 200x200x200 space without collision it gives you those 999 copies in a huge mess among themselves, while with collision detection on you get around 60 copies in case with my figure.

    ____________________

    Interesting results if you do many instances in small space, then take those instances and do random relpicate of them in larger space.

    Other interesting results if you take this group of instances you did with random replicate, and then multireplicate them in this or that way. I tried multireplicate in 100 instances of this 60 copies group into x translate direction yet got movement of copies in different directions but strictly in one line from several points. I'll show pictures later.

    ____________________

    I hope these my tests might be curious to somebody. Your experience might be different from my test due to different PC and used models. Also i was testing it just on default scene. The figure that i used as master for replication was 1500 polys, 17x52x14 dimensions with 1024x1024 image map.

     

    Post edited by akmerlow on
  • mermaid010mermaid010 Posts: 2,817

    akmerlow - cool results your test produced. Thanks for sharing.

  • akmerlowakmerlow Posts: 667

    As promised, some pics for last post.

    Random-replicated:

    Bigger number of copies, without restrictions:

    Without collision detection, so it gets funky:

    In smaller space:

    In 300x200x300 space, collision detection:

    Instances in small space, then random replicate into larger space:

    Controlled mulltireplicate of group that was made with random instancing, if you zoom in this picture into 150% or more, you ll see separate people on it (open image in fullsize first):

    And close-up around center of it:

     

  • mermaid010mermaid010 Posts: 2,817

    akmerlow - interesting images. I tried displacement using low priority, maybe I should have posted my images here and not in the Show us your renders thread. wink

  • Another question that we need answers for - if you render an animation in Bryce, how do you find the rendered file?

    I just spent 8 days rendering a 10second animation, and it's not in the place where I expected it to be - in fact, it seems to have disappeared completely.

    Yet another way that the Windows version of Bryce is fucked up

    Any thoughts?

  • SlepalexSlepalex Posts: 856
    akmerlow said:

    However, in 200x200x200 space i get 500 instance copies number put with all setting enabled without problem, as you don't get 500 in small space with collision detection, but it also works fine and gives you 500 instances in that space without detection. So i think that Bryce crashes if he is tasked to calculate all this settings in big space, but manages to do it in smaller space (i think it places less copies to fill it*). Some more tests, again with 500 instances number though it will give less actually depending on space:

     


    Invalid output.
    Your first mistake. You need to save the scene, close the file and open it again. Or start in a new file. Bryce accumulates in memory the number of rollbacks after complex operations and there is no memory left.
    The second mistake. Your object is too big to fit in a 200x200 space. Reducing the object by 8 times and all 500 clones will fit in this space without collisions.
    Here are 500 stones without problems and collisions located on a 900x900 space. The dimensions of the stone are 20.73x18.16x21.55.

     

    1.jpg
    800 x 600 - 374K
  • SlepalexSlepalex Posts: 856

    In general, an interesting topic with multi-replication. I have never dealt closely with this issue. Maybe someone will transfer all messages on this topic to a separate thread?
    Here are 500 clones from 6 originals in a space of 200x200x900. I selected all 6 shapes, pressed Alt + R and checked all 4 options. The first attempt to make 999 clones in this space crashed. But here, each of the 6 shapes has a 1024x1024 texture and a bump map of the same size. The bump map in this case is superfluous in my opinion, and the textures can be reduced to 256x256. Each figure has 1,500 polygons (triangles). I got a file size of 12.1 MB. The initial file with 6 figures weighed 12.0 MB.

     

    2.jpg
    800 x 600 - 294K
  • akmerlowakmerlow Posts: 667

    Thanks, Slepalex. Your advice on memory reset is important; and glad to see you do your own tests too - appreciated!

    p.s.

    I never used bump maps with those models, only textures.

  • SlepalexSlepalex Posts: 856

    For comparison. This is obtained in IL in three steps. Here are 988 clones and 6 originals (in the foreground.)
    File size 13.5 MB.

     

    14.jpg
    800 x 600 - 274K
  • SlepalexSlepalex Posts: 856

    Let's continue the experiment. I decided to combine multireplication with existing clones from IL. I twice added in different places closer to the foreground a few more clones of 100 and 200 people. The collision effect works great! That is, clones from multireplication do not overlap with clones from IL. This provides some additional facilities. The number of clones increased to 1288 people except for the originals, and the file size grew to 13.6 MB (0.1 MB).

    15.jpg
    800 x 600 - 274K
  • HansmarHansmar Posts: 1,778

    Wow, great experimenting. Thanks for this.

    Regarding situations with crashes: any situation where you want Bryce to do something while it has not finished doing the previous assignment will crash it. For example, making lots of instances and then moving them is OK, but if you then want to land them down on the ground (those that were higher) you have to wait a long time before they are all down. If you do not wait and start doing other things in Bryce, it will crash.

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