How to make Skinsuit_Gynoid#1 works in DAZ Studio 4.10?

margatho33

I have a beautiful product called "Skinsuits_Gynoid#1" by Brahann from the RuntimeDNA site before merging with DAZ3d. But in DAZ Studio skinsuits never worked as they should. Rather than forming four different types of clothing glued to the body of the figures with options of colors, it wraps the figures in what appears to be plastic film giving the figures a mannequin appearance. Makeup also works the same way. By product description the materials of skinsuits and makeup are "MT5". Does anyone have any idea how to make this product work properly in DAZ Studio?

 

Images removed due to nudity

Sevrin

Hope you get an answer before those pictures are taken down.

Richard Haseltine

Please don't post images showing nide figures, or figures with trasnparent clothing, even if the textures applied to the base lack detail.

Which figure were the suits made for, and do they claim DS compatibility? It's possible it's a Poser-only set. it's also possible that it is for DS, but has a custom 3Delight shader that won't automatically convert to Iray

Leana

MT5 are material presets for the Material Room in Poser. If they use any complex Poser node settings then those won’t work at all in DS.

Bejaymac

Didn't see the pics, but if it's the one I'm thinking of then you will need to do quite a bit of work with surface settings.

The outfit is a "mask", a black and white texture similar to a Opacity texture, it's used in a shader to allow two separate material settings to be applied to the same surface, one setting gets applied to the surface covered by the white of the mask, and the other to the black area of the mask.

It's pretty easy to do in ShaderMixer if your using 3Delight to render with, not sure but I think L.I.E. should also be able to use the mask.

Not sure about Iray though, didn't have a machine that could really use it until last week, so I've got a lot of catching up to do, so someone else will have to answer the Iray part.

The main issue is that Poser material settings are pretty useless in DS, it can only see the Poser 4 material settings in the files, so the entire Poser shader tree in those files is completely ignored.

GlennF

Richard Haseltine said:

Please don't post images showing nide figures, or figures with trasnparent clothing, even if the textures applied to the base lack detail.

Which figure were the suits made for, and do they claim DS compatibility? It's possible it's a Poser-only set. it's also possible that it is for DS, but has a custom 3Delight shader that won't automatically convert to Iray

What is a Nide figure?Just kidding

margatho33

Bejaymac said:

Didn't see the pics, but if it's the one I'm thinking of then you will need to do quite a bit of work with surface settings.

The outfit is a "mask", a black and white texture similar to a Opacity texture, it's used in a shader to allow two separate material settings to be applied to the same surface, one setting gets applied to the surface covered by the white of the mask, and the other to the black area of the mask.

It's pretty easy to do in ShaderMixer if your using 3Delight to render with, not sure but I think L.I.E. should also be able to use the mask.

Not sure about Iray though, didn't have a machine that could really use it until last week, so I've got a lot of catching up to do, so someone else will have to answer the Iray part.

The main issue is that Poser material settings are pretty useless in DS, it can only see the Poser 4 material settings in the files, so the entire Poser shader tree in those files is completely ignored.

Bejaymac Many thanks for the reply. But could you explain in more detail how I could use "ShaderMixer using 3Delight to render"?

margatho33

Bejaymac It looks like a real puzzle. But, I will follow your advice and try using L.I.E to try to rebuild these skinsuits.

cclesue

Nide is a word either preceeded by an s or needing a u where the i is.

Bejaymac

What I should have said is that it's pretty easy for me to do in ShaderMixer, been using it since the launch of DS3 Advanced.

Problem you have is that this definitely isn't plug and play, you are basically going to have to create two custom shaders in one. One of them will be for the look you want for the SkinSuit, the other will be a skin shader for any parts of V4's skin that still shows.

The two attached images show the sort of thing you need to do, in the first render you will notice that there is a difference in how the skin looks, the arms, legs and face are using whatever shader the DS preset loaded, the torso is using a simple skin shader I've been using for years.
I used the skin shader as the base and built the shader for the Mask around it, in this case the mask is a PNG rather than a JPG, so I'm using the Alpha channel as the mask, and the RGB channel for the Diffuse color.

The second render is after I unplugged everything from the Diffuse channel, this shows that the mask isn't just being used to separate the Diffuse channel, it's also working on the Spec, Reflection, Bump and Displacement.

I already had the skin shader, but putting the rest of it together took about 15 minutes, took me three times as long just to find the PNG for the swimsuit, I'm migrating between two PCs atm, so my stuff is all over the bloomin' place.

DollyGirl

I would recommend doing a geometry-shell. Select V4 and create new geo-shell. Apply the body suit mask to it. You can then have any skin product on V4 you want and the geo-shell can take on any of the attributes the mask uses for the suit. Leana is correct about procedural Poser shaders. The equations used by Poser and Studio are not compatiable. You can convert .mt5 files to .mc6 files and Studio may or may not load the information into the surface tab. This link https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/20092/#Comment_295361 will give you some guidence on converting to mc6.

On the geometry shell - To use a mask in Studio, I would use a black and white version of the image. I would assign the image to the Opacity parameter if I were using 3Delight or the cutout opacity parameter if I was using iray. The white is the area of the suit inside the outline you see in Bejaymac's second image. Black is every where else. The product may or may not be provided with this type of image. For the areas that are not being used by the mask I would turn them off by setting their opacity or cutout to zero.

I would highly recommend you obtain a version of Poser so that you can render out the product as it was designed. You can get a fairly cheap version off of ebay. Based upon what you see you can tweek your Studio shader to get a similar result.

If you don't want to go that route you can use any Studio shader, insert the mask and whala you have your suit with your own take on the texture.

The below images show you what I did with a second skin texture by Cris Galvao for V2. I ended up creating a material file that turned off the head, eyes, mouth and lips on the geo-shell then I created a mat file that put the suit texture in the diffuse and the new transmap file in the opacity parameter.

Image 1 - 2ndskin texture applied directly onto V2

Image 2 - Geo-shell applied and suit and transmap files applied to shell

Bejaymac

Just one problem with that DollyGirl, you need a 2nd skin texture set for it to work.

IIRC this product doesn't have one, it's basically a bunch of black and white textures, there is an old thread over at 'rosity where someone was trying to ID the outfit, he got the ID but also a lesson on how to do the same thing in Poser, www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2906094&page_number=1, there is a little nudity in the thread so I'll let you add the "https://"; to it.

I used to use a similar method in my P4/DS1&2 days, but back then I used a second copy of the figure as a "Skinsuit", think Jepe did the same thing with one of his M4 body hair sets.

DollyGirl

Not necessarily true, Bejaymac. In Image 1, I am using Gentlemen Adventurers - Courtier (https://redeyecat.wordpress.com/2015/08/29/ds-materials-rec-gentlemen-adventurers/ ) shaders. The one thing you have to do is avoid a shader that uses tiling. I don't know of a shader that you can apply to a surface and split the tiling properties between the opacity and diffuse. Is it possible? Image 2 is using Chrome Metal Shaders for DAZ Studio, (http://www.sharecg.com/v/27568/browse/7/Material-and-Shader/Ultimate-Shader-Pack-for-DAZ-Studio-UPDATED_2011 ).

Yes Jepe does do that, the Jewels series for M4 and V4 are designed that way. Very pretty. I have a couple of those products. Your reference to this product over at Rendo is way cool. I loved the suits.

Good to know that the Skinsuit_Gynoid#1 has the black and whites. Makes life easy. All you need then is a leather, latex or metal shader to fill in the suit area or as you identified a 2nd skin texture.

Bejaymac

The one thing you have to do is avoid a shader that uses tiling. I don't know of a shader that you can apply to a surface and split the tiling properties between the opacity and diffuse.

It's called the ShaderMixer, you can have separate tiling for every single channel if you want. Yes I know most of the user base are scared ****less to go anywhere near it, but if a thicko like me, who left school in '82 after failing both maths and arithmatic, can figure out how to use it, then what's stopping the rest of the user base.

Good to know that the Skinsuit_Gynoid#1 has the black and whites. Makes life easy. All you need then is a leather, latex or metal shader to fill in the suit area or as you identified a 2nd skin texture. 

 Problem is that these textures weren't designed as Opacity maps, I haven't seen them but if they are mostly black with smaller patches of white, then most of the Geo-Shell will vanish, leaving whatever patterns/shader being used covering V4's face.

jestmart

Iray Uber shader allows tiling of individual images through the Image Editor option.

margatho33

jestmart said:

Iray Uber shader allows tiling of individual images through the Image Editor option.

Thanks for but unfortunately this product is unique. And as far as I know "Uber shader" doesn't work because I believe it is something that resembles a transparency stuck to the skin of the figure (fig0). I like to select only the skinsuit and not the skin of the whole figure. By using "Uber Shader" I change the skin of the figure whose result (fig1) is almost the same as placing "Uber Shader" over the entire skin of the figure (fig2). Compare the results I did with the head and check around the lips for a bit of skinsuit (fig1).

Richard Haseltine

UberShader will apply to anything - but it isn't a procedural skin shader, which is what I think you are asking for.

margatho33

Bejaymac said:

The one thing you have to do is avoid a shader that uses tiling. I don't know of a shader that you can apply to a surface and split the tiling properties between the opacity and diffuse.

It's called the ShaderMixer, you can have separate tiling for every single channel if you want. Yes I know most of the user base are scared ****less to go anywhere near it, but if a thicko like me, who left school in '82 after failing both maths and arithmatic, can figure out how to use it, then what's stopping the rest of the user base.

Good to know that the Skinsuit_Gynoid#1 has the black and whites. Makes life easy. All you need then is a leather, latex or metal shader to fill in the suit area or as you identified a 2nd skin texture. 

 Problem is that these textures weren't designed as Opacity maps, I haven't seen them but if they are mostly black with smaller patches of white, then most of the Geo-Shell will vanish, leaving whatever patterns/shader being used covering V4's face.

Like you said the New Geometric Shell does not work, nor the convertion of .mt5 files to .mc6 files (fig1 3Delight and fig2 Iray). Can you please explain how can with a picture or tutorial how can I use Skinsuits_ynoid#1 in DAZ Studio?

margatho33

Bejaymac said:

What I should have said is that it's pretty easy for me to do in ShaderMixer, been using it since the launch of DS3 Advanced.

Problem you have is that this definitely isn't plug and play, you are basically going to have to create two custom shaders in one. One of them will be for the look you want for the SkinSuit, the other will be a skin shader for any parts of V4's skin that still shows.

The two attached images show the sort of thing you need to do, in the first render you will notice that there is a difference in how the skin looks, the arms, legs and face are using whatever shader the DS preset loaded, the torso is using a simple skin shader I've been using for years.
I used the skin shader as the base and built the shader for the Mask around it, in this case the mask is a PNG rather than a JPG, so I'm using the Alpha channel as the mask, and the RGB channel for the Diffuse color.

The second render is after I unplugged everything from the Diffuse channel, this shows that the mask isn't just being used to separate the Diffuse channel, it's also working on the Spec, Reflection, Bump and Displacement.

I already had the skin shader, but putting the rest of it together took about 15 minutes, took me three times as long just to find the PNG for the swimsuit, I'm migrating between two PCs atm, so my stuff is all over the bloomin' place.

 

Thank you very much for the answers I have`nt a lot of practice but I will try anyway. I believe your idea is promising. I will study the subject a little more and as soon as I get results I will post here again.

margatho33

Bejaymac said:

The one thing you have to do is avoid a shader that uses tiling. I don't know of a shader that you can apply to a surface and split the tiling properties between the opacity and diffuse.

It's called the ShaderMixer, you can have separate tiling for every single channel if you want. Yes I know most of the user base are scared ****less to go anywhere near it, but if a thicko like me, who left school in '82 after failing both maths and arithmatic, can figure out how to use it, then what's stopping the rest of the user base.

Good to know that the Skinsuit_Gynoid#1 has the black and whites. Makes life easy. All you need then is a leather, latex or metal shader to fill in the suit area or as you identified a 2nd skin texture. 

 Problem is that these textures weren't designed as Opacity maps, I haven't seen them but if they are mostly black with smaller patches of white, then most of the Geo-Shell will vanish, leaving whatever patterns/shader being used covering V4's face.

Any idea of the "Mask and Multipass Toolbox" can be of use to crente SkinSuits for Daz Studio 4.x?