What happened to dForce hair?

13

Comments

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    As a consumer, I like the dforce hair in theory, but it's just not as usable for me. The simulations take a lot of time to complete as compared to cloth.

    Dforce cloth already can be problematic (looks good... Looks good... Explosion!), and waiting longer for strand hair without total confidence in the simulation? I'm just not into that. Ain't got time fo dat.

    PhilW's hairs simulate very quickly indeed. Think I own them all; I only now buy strand-based hair. I have more than enough of the traditional and limiting to last me past the heat-death of the universe.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    Havos said:

    According to the sneak preview we got of tomorrows products (or so I assume they will be), another of these rare dForce hairs will appear tomorrow.

    I'm reading this today, which is your tomorrow and am going to click buy on that hair. :)

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165

    I'm sticking with ye olde hairs. Just anything simulation or drape related has always failed for my complex shapes or been too slow. Rather have the old hair with a lot of custom movement options and reliable shaders.

    Not to mention that a issue had came to my attention that I read in another thread  that deforce hair is not cross compatible in fitting other characters that it was not deigned for.https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/345721/has-anyone-tried-linday-s-new-virgin-hair-on-the-guys

      which is disappointing & a huge reason for staying with conforming hair at least you can parent conforming hair to other characters and it will still work

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,088

    Unless it’s designed on a hair cap, at which point it works fine.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165

    Can you make a universal hair cap for  G8 deforce hair so it will work with other characters , becasue that would be awesome

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,088

    It’s a design decision. If you make dforce hair on a hair cap, it follows that haircap.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,667

    Always wondered how making/distributing a haircap wasn't a eula violation (since the cap follows the underlying geometry of the figure).

    Also, what about similar caps for the bodies of furry critters?

    - Greg

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited August 2019
    Oso3D said:

    It’s a design decision. If you make dforce hair on a hair cap, it follows that haircap.

    Could you create a g8 hair cap  that could be parented for use on other characters  inspite the design was for g8 only as like a after thought fix or work around?

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,548

    Always wondered how making/distributing a haircap wasn't a eula violation (since the cap follows the underlying geometry of the figure).

     

    Not an accurate assumption; I remember reading at least one tutorial for making conforming hair that started with: "create a sphere primitive, scale and position it to fit over your character's head, cut off the bits you don't want, and shape the rest into a haircap."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20081010061457/http://www.art-collaborations.com/Valea_HexHair.pdf

  • IgnisSerpentusIgnisSerpentus Posts: 2,561
    edited August 2019

    Bear in mind, there are not that many PA's that do hair. And only some of those are gonna migrate to dforce hair. You may see others take up the gauntlet, but I think it will take time.

    Im not really a hair person... as Im more of a clothing person (hence why dforce clothes has me lol) I dabble here and there with hair, but rarely... and as such, I really dont see me doing dedicated hairs for it. What more interests me, is doing it on clothing.... but even then, not every outfit will warrant fur. Like someone else said, creatures is the other place you will prolly see it a lot.

    But give it time... Im sure more will be released. It takes time to learn a new thing.

    Post edited by IgnisSerpentus on
  • LindayLinday Posts: 89

    Hi everyone, there is a simple way how to fit dForce Virgin hair to G8 males:

    1. We need a hair with sculp ( for example Toulouse Hair - it´s free)

    2. Fit Toulouse Hair to G8 female

    3. Fit dForce Virgin Hair to Toulouse Hair

    4. Fit Toulouse Hair to G8 Male, in the pop-up dialog select G8 Female 

    5. Turn-off Toulouse Hair in Scene Tab

    6. Hair strands are following polygon normals, if the polygon normal is changed, hair strand is changing its direction too. It happens when morphs are applied, especially extreme ones ( neck part,etc...)

    Virgin Hair on G8 Male.JPG
    1947 x 1120 - 186K
    Virgin Hair on G8 Male 02.JPG
    1949 x 1113 - 155K
    Virgin Hair on G8 Male 03.JPG
    1950 x 1113 - 159K
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165

    excellent work around , slaps forehead.   thank you linday. smiley

  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,548
    Linday said:

    Hi everyone, there is a simple way how to fit dForce Virgin hair to G8 males:

    1. We need a hair with sculp ( for example Toulouse Hair - it´s free)

    2. Fit Toulouse Hair to G8 female

    3. Fit dForce Virgin Hair to Toulouse Hair

    4. Fit Toulouse Hair to G8 Male, in the pop-up dialog select G8 Female 

    5. Turn-off Toulouse Hair in Scene Tab

    6. Hair strands are following polygon normals, if the polygon normal is changed, hair strand is changing its direction too. It happens when morphs are applied, especially extreme ones ( neck part,etc...)

    Linday, you're a genius, what can I say.

  • LindayLinday Posts: 89

    Thanks, you are welcome....honestly, we didn´t realise that this is not going to work without haircap,´cause we aren´t using them in our hair products...next time, we´ll know better.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,667
    Odaa said:

    Always wondered how making/distributing a haircap wasn't a eula violation (since the cap follows the underlying geometry of the figure).

     

    Not an accurate assumption; I remember reading at least one tutorial for making conforming hair that started with: "create a sphere primitive, scale and position it to fit over your character's head, cut off the bits you don't want, and shape the rest into a haircap."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20081010061457/http://www.art-collaborations.com/Valea_HexHair.pdf

    I'm working at the moment so I don't have time to check the actual EULA for language, and it's been a while since I've read it, but I'm not sure what a document from Valea 10 years ago has to do with what we all agree to as far as the current EULA goes. What I was talking about is the fact that we can't redistribute any of a figure's geometry or retopos, etc.(seems like caps would fall into this category). Does that make sense?

    - Greg

     

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,189
    Odaa said:

    Always wondered how making/distributing a haircap wasn't a eula violation (since the cap follows the underlying geometry of the figure).

     

    Not an accurate assumption; I remember reading at least one tutorial for making conforming hair that started with: "create a sphere primitive, scale and position it to fit over your character's head, cut off the bits you don't want, and shape the rest into a haircap."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20081010061457/http://www.art-collaborations.com/Valea_HexHair.pdf

    I'm working at the moment so I don't have time to check the actual EULA for language, and it's been a while since I've read it, but I'm not sure what a document from Valea 10 years ago has to do with what we all agree to as far as the current EULA goes. What I was talking about is the fact that we can't redistribute any of a figure's geometry or retopos, etc.(seems like caps would fall into this category). Does that make sense?

    - Greg

     

    Well skin tight bodysuits would be more so if was the case but no shortage of those in store

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,667
    Odaa said:

    Always wondered how making/distributing a haircap wasn't a eula violation (since the cap follows the underlying geometry of the figure).

     

    Not an accurate assumption; I remember reading at least one tutorial for making conforming hair that started with: "create a sphere primitive, scale and position it to fit over your character's head, cut off the bits you don't want, and shape the rest into a haircap."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20081010061457/http://www.art-collaborations.com/Valea_HexHair.pdf

    I'm working at the moment so I don't have time to check the actual EULA for language, and it's been a while since I've read it, but I'm not sure what a document from Valea 10 years ago has to do with what we all agree to as far as the current EULA goes. What I was talking about is the fact that we can't redistribute any of a figure's geometry or retopos, etc.(seems like caps would fall into this category). Does that make sense?

    - Greg

     

    Well skin tight bodysuits would be more so if was the case but no shortage of those in store

    Exactly - same idea. But since we're talking about hair here . . .

    - Greg

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,270

    When I made a scalp object for G8F (so that I could create Strand-Based Hair on it), I started with a sphere, deleted some polygons, shaped the sphere to fit close to her head, and used transfer utility to fit it to G8F. I did not start with the G8F mesh to make my scalp object. The way I did it is just like creating clothing for G8F and fitting it to her. It is not her mesh, it just conforms to her shape. I believe that is OK according to the EULA, because it does not use G8F mesh. 

  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,548
    edited August 2019
    Odaa said:

    Always wondered how making/distributing a haircap wasn't a eula violation (since the cap follows the underlying geometry of the figure).

     

    Not an accurate assumption; I remember reading at least one tutorial for making conforming hair that started with: "create a sphere primitive, scale and position it to fit over your character's head, cut off the bits you don't want, and shape the rest into a haircap."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20081010061457/http://www.art-collaborations.com/Valea_HexHair.pdf

    I'm working at the moment so I don't have time to check the actual EULA for language, and it's been a while since I've read it, but I'm not sure what a document from Valea 10 years ago has to do with what we all agree to as far as the current EULA goes. What I was talking about is the fact that we can't redistribute any of a figure's geometry or retopos, etc.(seems like caps would fall into this category). Does that make sense?

    - Greg

     

    No, because the point of the document I posted is that you don't need to redistribute a character's geometry in order to make a skullcap for it. You just need to use its geometry as a frame of reference for the shape of the skullcap, bodysuit, article of clothing that you are modelling. When you make a clay sculpture of somebody's head, you're not redistributing their head, you're shaping a piece of clay to look like their head. You're thinking of a virtual skullcap as being a geograft, when from what I've seen, it's usually more like a kippah with more scalp coverage.

    Post edited by Odaa on
  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744
    Odaa said:

    Always wondered how making/distributing a haircap wasn't a eula violation (since the cap follows the underlying geometry of the figure).

     

    Not an accurate assumption; I remember reading at least one tutorial for making conforming hair that started with: "create a sphere primitive, scale and position it to fit over your character's head, cut off the bits you don't want, and shape the rest into a haircap."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20081010061457/http://www.art-collaborations.com/Valea_HexHair.pdf

    I'm working at the moment so I don't have time to check the actual EULA for language, and it's been a while since I've read it, but I'm not sure what a document from Valea 10 years ago has to do with what we all agree to as far as the current EULA goes. What I was talking about is the fact that we can't redistribute any of a figure's geometry or retopos, etc.(seems like caps would fall into this category). Does that make sense?

    - Greg

     

    I think you're reading it more strictly than it is intended. By the interpretation you're proposing, anything that was form fitting (e.g. No Suit for Genesis 8 Female) would be a violation because it follows the mesh of GF8 precisely.

    What would be a violation of the EULA would be for someone to create a skullcap by copying GF8's head and deleting the faces that they didn't need. But creating a form fitting item like a skull cap from scratch should be perfectly valid.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,667
    Odaa said:
    Odaa said:

    Always wondered how making/distributing a haircap wasn't a eula violation (since the cap follows the underlying geometry of the figure).

     

    Not an accurate assumption; I remember reading at least one tutorial for making conforming hair that started with: "create a sphere primitive, scale and position it to fit over your character's head, cut off the bits you don't want, and shape the rest into a haircap."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20081010061457/http://www.art-collaborations.com/Valea_HexHair.pdf

    I'm working at the moment so I don't have time to check the actual EULA for language, and it's been a while since I've read it, but I'm not sure what a document from Valea 10 years ago has to do with what we all agree to as far as the current EULA goes. What I was talking about is the fact that we can't redistribute any of a figure's geometry or retopos, etc.(seems like caps would fall into this category). Does that make sense?

    - Greg

     

    No, because the point of the document I posted is that you don't need to redistribute a character's geometry in order to make a skullcap for it. You just need to use its geometry as a frame of reference for the shape of the skullcap, bodysuit, article of clothing that you are modelling. When you make a clay sculpture of somebody's head, you're not redistributing their head, you're shaping a piece of clay to look like their head. You're thinking of a virtual skullcap as being a geograft, when from what I've seen, it's usually more like a kippah with more scalp coverage.

    In order to distribute SBH (in its editable form), you need to distribute geo. The cap would follow the figures geo. Not sure how it's created is relevant (and couldn't really be proven anyway).

    - Greg

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723

    @Oso3D: any chance of dForce fur for Daz Sheep and Daz Lamb? enlightened

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,667

    Took a break from work to actually read the current EULA. Seems to me that the key has nothing to do with how it was created, but that it must "encourage the use of Content available through the online DAZ store":

    https://www.daz3d.com/eula

    I don't remeber that language being in there the last time I read it (which was admittedly a while ago). Back to work!

    - Greg

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,088

    dawnblade: Not from me! :)

    (It'd be a lot of work and like 3 people would buy it)

     

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,533
    dawnblade said:

    @Oso3D: any chance of dForce fur for Daz Sheep and Daz Lamb? enlightened

    Why would you want Dfroce hair for a lamb or sheep, just SBH i would have thought would do fine, and that you can do yourself.

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723
    Oso3D said:

    dawnblade: Not from me! :)

    (It'd be a lot of work and like 3 people would buy it)

     

    laugh Ok got it!

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    Oso3D said:

    dawnblade: Not from me! :)

    (It'd be a lot of work and like 3 people would buy it)

     

    Well, lamb is an aquired taste in some places. :)

  • UthgardUthgard Posts: 878

    Now that we are bothering Oso3D with requests, any word on those skin/fur combos for the HFS shapes? I've some non-existent money to burn (that is, I would be willing to forego a couple of meals for that.)

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 3,037
    nicstt said:
    Oso3D said:

    dawnblade: Not from me! :)

    (It'd be a lot of work and like 3 people would buy it)

     

    Well, lamb is an aquired taste in some places. :)

    Although most people only eat it... ^^

  • shootybearshootybear Posts: 147
    Slight change of topic but since this is a dForce hair thread, has anybody used https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-master-hair-simulation-presets-for-dforce-cloth-engine? Opinions?
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