Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.12.2.60! (*UPDATED*)

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  • f7eerf7eer Posts: 88
    L'Adair said:

    L'Adair said:

    My questions to people reporting the crash are:
    1. Did the scene that crashed DS when saving include a dForce item?
    2. Have you tried loading and saving a scene created in 4.10/4.11 that does not include a dForce item? If so, did it crash the beta?

    I am having the "crash on save" problem in 4.12. The answer to 1. is "Yes". The answer to 2a. is "Yes". The answer to 2b. is "No".

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,141
    edited July 2019

    I am now able to repeatedly get crashes upon trying to save a scene from 4.11 that does NOT include a dForce item. There are two figures with Easypose though, which I wonder may be contributing because of IK changes. Will try to resave it without those items and update post.

    edit: both Easypose items removed, scene did save successfully. Seems that could be the source of some people's problems.

    Post edited by SnowSultan on
  • PadonePadone Posts: 2,210
    marble said:

    .. So I guess that's the advantage of the new improvements in that chain length can be specified and bones not involved in the chain will remain unaffected?

    Not really, this is true even for the active pose tool where the pin defines the chain lenght and where you grab is the (dynamic) ik handle. The difference is that the new ik is for animation, it is persistent in the timeline, so it defines a "goal" for the chain to follow during animation. For example you animate the hand and the arm will follow.

    The active pose tool is only a aid for posing, it can be used to define a single keyframe. The ik goal does not exist between keyframes thus interpolation is used. This can lead to unwanted movements during the animation.

    I understand that for anyone not involved in animation this is difficult to get. But it is really an important difference.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470

    @Ivy, You're welcome. smiley


    I am now able to repeatedly get crashes upon trying to save a scene from 4.11 that does NOT include a dForce item. There are two figures with Easypose though, which I wonder may be contributing because of IK changes. Will try to resave it without those items and update post.

    edit: both Easypose items removed, scene did save successfully. Seems that could be the source of some people's problems.

    @SnowSultan, What is "Easypose"? A premium product, or built-in feature?

    I'm not really sure what IK is. I've recently been able to grab the universal tool with my mouse and move the selected bone and other bones attached to it? Is that IK? What about being able to pin translation and rotation?

    I'm wondering because I've started using some of these tools in my latest images. Maybe it isn't the dForce clothing item that is causing the crash-on-save issue…

     

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 16,182

    One thing that is happening to me as I use DAZ Studio 4.12.0.33 Public Beta is that when I do open an old scene, make changes, and then go to save it again I get prompted to enter a new name rather than being given a dialogue with the existing scene name all ready filled out. I don't know if that is intentional to protect the validity of old scenes because of format changes in the DS 4.12.0.33 beta or was unintentional. It still saved when I choose to keep the old name that I opened the scene as and overwrote it.

  • marblemarble Posts: 6,186
    Padone said:
    marble said:

    .. So I guess that's the advantage of the new improvements in that chain length can be specified and bones not involved in the chain will remain unaffected?

     

    I understand that for anyone not involved in animation this is difficult to get. But it is really an important difference.

    Very true, especially when I'm trying to imagine this working as I don't have the means to play with it at the moment. I'll have to wait until I get home so that I can see how it differs from Active Pose and how and when to use each. The unwanted movement along the timeline has been a source of frustration for me and has been a big factor in me not experimenting more with animation. 

  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 5,692

    One thing that is happening to me as I use DAZ Studio 4.12.0.33 Public Beta is that when I do open an old scene, make changes, and then go to save it again I get prompted to enter a new name rather than being given a dialogue with the existing scene name all ready filled out. I don't know if that is intentional to protect the validity of old scenes because of format changes in the DS 4.12.0.33 beta or was unintentional. It still saved when I choose to keep the old name that I opened the scene as and overwrote it.

    That usually happens if either (a) the loaded scene is a subscene, or (b) the Authorship information isn't there (Edit - Preferences - General tab).

  • Padone said:
    marble said:

    .. So I guess that's the advantage of the new improvements in that chain length can be specified and bones not involved in the chain will remain unaffected?

    Not really, this is true even for the active pose tool where the pin defines the chain lenght and where you grab is the (dynamic) ik handle. The difference is that the new ik is for animation, it is persistent in the timeline, so it defines a "goal" for the chain to follow during animation. For example you animate the hand and the arm will follow.

    The active pose tool is only a aid for posing, it can be used to define a single keyframe. The ik goal does not exist between keyframes thus interpolation is used. This can lead to unwanted movements during the animation.

    I understand that for anyone not involved in animation this is difficult to get. But it is really an important difference.

    The chnages to the solver apply to both dynamic and persistent IK. And the parentable target iss till useful for still posing. (Active Pose is not the same, as I understand it, as IK using the universal tool and the transform tools derived from it.)

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 16,182
    edited July 2019

    One thing that is happening to me as I use DAZ Studio 4.12.0.33 Public Beta is that when I do open an old scene, make changes, and then go to save it again I get prompted to enter a new name rather than being given a dialogue with the existing scene name all ready filled out. I don't know if that is intentional to protect the validity of old scenes because of format changes in the DS 4.12.0.33 beta or was unintentional. It still saved when I choose to keep the old name that I opened the scene as and overwrote it.

    That usually happens if either (a) the loaded scene is a subscene, or (b) the Authorship information isn't there (Edit - Preferences - General tab).

    Scene wasn't a subscene and the authorship information changed from the old saved scene.

    I've haven't had or tried any deforce items in my tests as the others yet maybe that's the reason for lack of crashes. I have no discrete video cards either.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • marblemarble Posts: 6,186
    edited July 2019
    Padone said:
    marble said:

    .. So I guess that's the advantage of the new improvements in that chain length can be specified and bones not involved in the chain will remain unaffected?

    Not really, this is true even for the active pose tool where the pin defines the chain lenght and where you grab is the (dynamic) ik handle. The difference is that the new ik is for animation, it is persistent in the timeline, so it defines a "goal" for the chain to follow during animation. For example you animate the hand and the arm will follow.

    The active pose tool is only a aid for posing, it can be used to define a single keyframe. The ik goal does not exist between keyframes thus interpolation is used. This can lead to unwanted movements during the animation.

    I understand that for anyone not involved in animation this is difficult to get. But it is really an important difference.

    The chnages to the solver apply to both dynamic and persistent IK. And the parentable target iss till useful for still posing. (Active Pose is not the same, as I understand it, as IK using the universal tool and the transform tools derived from it.)

    So the pins described in the Highlights thread are not the pins we see in the Active Pose view? Are they new pins or are they the pins that can be seen on the manipulator in the top left of the viewport (I'm going from my questionable memory here). This video calls that the "Pose Tool" but it also has two names for Active Pose (the other being "Power Pose" which I thought was something else entirely).

    All very confusing.

    [EDIT] I think that one reason I find this confusing is that I rarely (if ever) use the universal tool for posing. I just got used to using the parameter sliders from day one.

    Post edited by marble on
  • f7eerf7eer Posts: 88
    f7eer said:
    I am having the "crash on save" problem in 4.12. The answer to 1. is "Yes". The answer to 2a. is "Yes". The answer to 2b. is "No".

    A little bit more testing shows me that a dForce object is not the problem at all.

    The problem seems to be the presence of a Figure object which has a Null object as a parent. I might be able to get around this by using a Group object instead of the Null.

  • IllidanstormIllidanstorm Posts: 649

    I find the new starting image slightly disturbing.

    Who's idea was that no

  • WuggletoesWuggletoes Posts: 17

    I find the new starting image slightly disturbing.

    Who's idea was that no

    Next update it'll be just its eye. :D

    Chiming in with my own points:

    1. I'm enjoying the new timeline view so far--is there a rebate/special bonus planned for owners of the plugins it's replacing? ;)
       
    2. One feature I'd love for the advanced timeline view/keyMate would be a "Filter only active parameters", which would use the same methodology as the "Currently Used" view. I have hundreds of sliders, but only a tiny few of them have been wiggled. As a result, there's a LOOOT of empty space. Even a search/filter bar would be great.
       
    3. Same issue from keyMate persists here: It doesn't understand the filter view in the Parameters tab; probably needs to ask the QSortFilterProxyModel for the 'real' index it's returned... something like that. Qt's easy to use until it very much isn't. smiley
       
    4. The timeline view could very much benefit from either alternating row colors, and/or a box around which parameter you're hovering.
       
    5. KeyMate/Advanced View would also benefit from an 'autoscale'/'zoom to fit' view, as some parameters are 0-100, some are 0-1, and some are infinity. Cycling between different ones means a lot of moving the mouse allll the way over to the view controls on the right side, then baaaack to the row entries on the left.  The zoom to fit is also very necessary for times when you're using a tablet or remote-viewing software, and you drag the zoom and suddenly it's either very small or very big and it's rendering it black of so many gridlines, and the whole interface is slowing down and there's no way to know if you need to zoom in or out or how much and there's no one-click fix button and the A/C's broke and the boss is breathing fire down your neck and you just wanna know if there's overshoot on this one property or not.
       
    6. Similar to above, it'd be great if the view controls for the formerly-keyMate panel were on the left, and/or let us use similar view/pan/zoom controls as the Viewport. Much less cross-screen scrolling.
       
    7. Finishing off the critique sandwich, I'm very pleased with this update! They always come as a pleasant surprise.

     

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,317
    f7eer said:
    The problem seems to be the presence of a Figure object which has a Null object as a parent. I might be able to get around this by using a Group object instead of the Null.

    Oh? Could you show us what you mean in your scene tab? I've gotten the crash in every 4.11 scene I've tried to far.

     

  • f7eerf7eer Posts: 88
    f7eer said:
    f7eer said:
    I am having the "crash on save" problem in 4.12. The answer to 1. is "Yes". The answer to 2a. is "Yes". The answer to 2b. is "No".

    A little bit more testing shows me that a dForce object is not the problem at all.

    The problem seems to be the presence of a Figure object which has a Null object as a parent. I might be able to get around this by using a Group object instead of the Null.

    I found the problem, and also a pretty easy work-around. The problem is the figure itself, which in this case is "Lovey Bear re-energized". In 4.12, deleting only the figure from the original 4.11-produced scene allowed me to save it in 4.12.

    Since this figure is required for the scene, in 4.12 I just reloaded it, and was now able to save the whole scene in 4.12. Not solved, but worked-around, and even better, the work-around does not require firing up 4.11. Just make sure that you can save a "legacy" pre-4.12 scene before you spend several hours making adjustments to it before you try (and possibly fail) to save it.

  • I find the new starting image slightly disturbing.

    Who's idea was that no

    There is an alternative, mainly text on texture, splash screena vailable through Edit>Preferences (Interface tab as I recall).

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470
    f7eer said:
    f7eer said:
    I am having the "crash on save" problem in 4.12. The answer to 1. is "Yes". The answer to 2a. is "Yes". The answer to 2b. is "No".

    A little bit more testing shows me that a dForce object is not the problem at all.

    The problem seems to be the presence of a Figure object which has a Null object as a parent. I might be able to get around this by using a Group object instead of the Null.

    I have a scene where I deleted all but a few props and was able to save. But I tried adding in a few more props from the scene, and it crashed when I tried to save. No Nulls in the scene.

    I think we need to just keep reporting what is crashing and what isn't, until as a group, we can narrow it down.

    One thing I haven't tried is merging the 4.11 saved scene into 4.12…

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 542
    Padone said:
    marble said:

    .. So I guess that's the advantage of the new improvements in that chain length can be specified and bones not involved in the chain will remain unaffected?

    Not really, this is true even for the active pose tool where the pin defines the chain lenght and where you grab is the (dynamic) ik handle. The difference is that the new ik is for animation, it is persistent in the timeline, so it defines a "goal" for the chain to follow during animation. For example you animate the hand and the arm will follow.

    The active pose tool is only a aid for posing, it can be used to define a single keyframe. The ik goal does not exist between keyframes thus interpolation is used. This can lead to unwanted movements during the animation.

    I understand that for anyone not involved in animation this is difficult to get. But it is really an important difference.

    The chnages to the solver apply to both dynamic and persistent IK. And the parentable target iss till useful for still posing. (Active Pose is not the same, as I understand it, as IK using the universal tool and the transform tools derived from it.)

    Thank you for this.  Was using the universal tool myself. 

    For anyone intertested.  Tip1: want to move a leg? grab by shin bone or foot so solver chain is longer.  Tip2: Make sure to wait for tooltip to makew sure you know what you are grabbing.

    I find the new starting image slightly disturbing.

    Who's idea was that no

    There is an alternative, mainly text on texture, splash screena vailable through Edit>Preferences (Interface tab as I recall).

    Looked for the splash screens so I could mod in my own splash screen.  The alt splash screen is functional, but seeing an inspiring splash is nicer considering how often I open and close the program to make memory is cleared out well.

  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 5,692
     
    1. I'm enjoying the new timeline view so far--is there a rebate/special bonus planned for owners of the plugins it's replacing? ;)

    Which plugins? The new Timeline is a reworking of the original Timeline.

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,317
    f7eer said:
    One thing I haven't tried is merging the 4.11 saved scene into 4.12…

    I have tried this, and it sadly didn't work.

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,317
    L'Adair said:
    f7eer said:
    f7eer said:
    I am having the "crash on save" problem in 4.12. The answer to 1. is "Yes". The answer to 2a. is "Yes". The answer to 2b. is "No".

    A little bit more testing shows me that a dForce object is not the problem at all.

    The problem seems to be the presence of a Figure object which has a Null object as a parent. I might be able to get around this by using a Group object instead of the Null.

    I have a scene where I deleted all but a few props and was able to save. But I tried adding in a few more props from the scene, and it crashed when I tried to save. No Nulls in the scene.

    I think we need to just keep reporting what is crashing and what isn't, until as a group, we can narrow it down.

    One thing I haven't tried is merging the 4.11 saved scene into 4.12…

    It'd be nice to hear if DAZ is aware of this issue and working on a solution. Sometimes I feel like they ignore these threads!

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 16,182

    I find the new starting image slightly disturbing.

    Who's idea was that no

    It's not too dissimilar to your avatar of a skull with flames shooting from the top of it's head actually, which, yes, like the DS startup image, is somewhat disturbing.

  • L'Adair said:
    f7eer said:
    f7eer said:
    I am having the "crash on save" problem in 4.12. The answer to 1. is "Yes". The answer to 2a. is "Yes". The answer to 2b. is "No".

    A little bit more testing shows me that a dForce object is not the problem at all.

    The problem seems to be the presence of a Figure object which has a Null object as a parent. I might be able to get around this by using a Group object instead of the Null.

    I have a scene where I deleted all but a few props and was able to save. But I tried adding in a few more props from the scene, and it crashed when I tried to save. No Nulls in the scene.

    I think we need to just keep reporting what is crashing and what isn't, until as a group, we can narrow it down.

    One thing I haven't tried is merging the 4.11 saved scene into 4.12…

    It'd be nice to hear if DAZ is aware of this issue and working on a solution. Sometimes I feel like they ignore these threads!

    The thread is not ignored, but the developers usually pass feedback or comments to the mods for us to relay.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470
    f7eer said:
    One thing I haven't tried is merging the 4.11 saved scene into 4.12…

    I have tried this, and it sadly didn't work.

    Yes, same here.

    I've got a well populated, 3Delight, scene I'm working on: two figures with clothing, one item dForced, the modular sofa in three parts, some framed pictures, two very different end tables and a coffee table, a couple of table lamps with lighting, an assortment of hand tools, and an apartment set with their props removed.

    The scene always crashes when trying to save with the figures in the scene. It also crashes with one of the end tables and lamp, but not the other. The end table that crashes has a stack of books on the lower shelf with a lamp and power cord prop on the top. The end table that does not crash has a lamp with a base I modified from one product, (created an object and used UVMapper Classic to change the UVs,) and the upper half of a lamp from the same set as the other lamp in the scene.

    And I gave up for now, as that scene is for Llola Lane's monthly challenge, and if I keep playing with this issue, I'll miss the deadline! Once I get that image rendered, I'll get back to figuring out what is causing this image to crash on save, assuming the crash issue hasn't been fixed.

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,141

    L'Adair, Easypose was a method of posing figures with many segments (like snakes, tails, chains) back in the Poser days, it led to the creation of the Side-Side, Twist, and Bend morphs on similar items that we use today. This version of Studio appears to have issues with older items that use this system of IK and movement (I was able to get it to crash twice using a chain prop from ShareCG), and I hope someone might be able to replicate it and pass it along to the devs.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470
    edited July 2019
     
    1. I'm enjoying the new timeline view so far--is there a rebate/special bonus planned for owners of the plugins it's replacing? ;)

    Which plugins? The new Timeline is a reworking of the original Timeline.

    KeyMate and GraphMate. They disappeared from the store when 4.12 beta was released. Someone asked about it in The Commons, and…

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    They have been removed from the store because an improved version of their combined functionality has been rolled in to the base product starting with Daz Studio 4.12, which is available now in beta.

     

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 17,770
    L'Adair said:
     
    1. I'm enjoying the new timeline view so far--is there a rebate/special bonus planned for owners of the plugins it's replacing? ;)

    Which plugins? The new Timeline is a reworking of the original Timeline.

    KeyMate and GraphMate. They disappeared from the store when 4.12 beta was released. Someone asked about it in The Commons, and…

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    They have been removed from the store because an improved version of their combined functionality has been rolled in to the base product starting with Daz Studio 4.12, which is available now in beta.

     

    I already own (and use) Keymate and Graphmate. Will they continue to work in Ds 4.12?

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470

    L'Adair, Easypose was a method of posing figures with many segments (like snakes, tails, chains) back in the Poser days, it led to the creation of the Side-Side, Twist, and Bend morphs on similar items that we use today. This version of Studio appears to have issues with older items that use this system of IK and movement (I was able to get it to crash twice using a chain prop from ShareCG), and I hope someone might be able to replicate it and pass it along to the devs.

    I have isolated the culprit that causes the current scene I'm working on to crash when saving. It's the power cord prop from InaneGlory's Lights and Lamps 1 - Table Lamps, and it has 20 bones for posing. The odd thing is, after reading your post I loaded the prop into an empty scene and twisted it around, saved it, and then opened in 4.12. Saving the single prop scene, created in 4.11, didn't crash 4.12. I also removed everything from the scene except the power cord and saved that in 4.11, and when attempting to save that power cord file, 4.12 crashed. Same power cord, different pose.

    Later, I loaded the current scene into 4.12 and deleted the power cord, and I was able to successfully save the scene!

    I've attached the duf files for both power cord "scenes." As mentioned earlier, I now have all my installs of Daz studio, released and beta, on my e-drive. I'm curious if the version that crashes on my computer works or crashes on 4.12 installed on the default C-Drive.

    duf
    duf
    power cord crash.duf
    101K
    duf
    duf
    power cord no crash.duf
    98K
  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,141

    I don't own that product so I can't test those DUFs, but it's good that you posted those so the devs or others can. Looks like we're narrowing down the culprits for those crashes at least.  :)

  • kwanniekwannie Posts: 733

    I just installed ver.  4.12 and for some reason I am not getting any renders now in Iray. I can render in 3Dlight, but in Iray I get nothing but the the checkerboard pattern like its an empty scene. I don't getting any error messages, just a blank output. Any Ideas?

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