PA's obsession with lethal adornements to outfits

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Comments

  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,855

    Picture the scene: Our band of noble warriors are in the great hall, kneeling to swear fealty to the High King of Dazheim. Then, when it's time to get up and go fight the evil hordes of the Rendo orc city, the barbarian pipes up "Err... guys, does anyone have a crowbar? My knees have become nailed to the floor..."

    Then, to their horror, the OSHA representative comes over to have a word with them. And their king.

     

  • DarkEdgeDesignDarkEdgeDesign Posts: 489
    edited July 2019
    It would be nice if content creators kept in mind the ability to turn "on or off" certain aspects of their outfits...would grab a larger user base. A lot of times this aspect is possible if pre-planned correctly, but other times it wouldn't be practical...kind of up to the whim of the PA.
    Post edited by DarkEdgeDesign on
  • SlimerJSpudSlimerJSpud Posts: 1,456

    I'll just leave this here...

     

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  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 3,037
    Gordig said:

    Complaints about too many of a certain type of item in the store are inherently frivolous, since you're under no obligation to buy or use anything. What would you like there to be more of?

    More stuff that I see when I walk around town... about 90% of all the female clothes I see in the shop might be seen on a catwalk, but not in normal life...

  • NylonGirlNylonGirl Posts: 2,238
    dracorn said:

    My pet peeve is armor pieces that are WAY too big to be practical.  Take the Kadis armor for example.  That pauldron has gotta weigh 30 pounds at least.  She wouldn't be able to lift her arm.  

    And don't forget weapons that are ridiculously too big - especially being wielded by women.  I once picked up a replica of William Wallace's claymore - I could barely lift the thing. 

    You underestimate their power.

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,990

    You can't hurt pixels. Don't worry!

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232
    Ascania said:

    Picture the scene: Our band of noble warriors are in the great hall, kneeling to swear fealty to the High King of Dazheim. Then, when it's time to get up and go fight the evil hordes of the Rendo orc city, the barbarian pipes up "Err... guys, does anyone have a crowbar? My knees have become nailed to the floor..."

    Then, to their horror, the OSHA representative comes over to have a word with them. And their king.

    So that's why there's no OSHA compliance on board the Death Star, with all those bottomless shafts (no safety rails) and nose-chopper doors — the inspector's locked away in this other guy's dungeon!  

  • ViallyVially Posts: 344
     

    https://www.daz3d.com/heavy-barbarian-for-genesis-3-male-s   Note how his hands are just in the right position to impale themselves on the pikes in his thighs

    Never mind his hands, how ab out the waist high spikes that are in direct line to the main artery in the inside elbow? Spike that one and bleed out in 3 minutes.

    https://www.daz3d.com/dragonsbane-barbarian-clothes-hd-for-genesis-3-male-s    If this one ever bows it gets really nasty

    Not to mention that if his quickly raises his arm, (say like in to swing the sword that looks to weigh about 90 pounds) his shoulder armor is going to dislocate his jaw.

    https://www.daz3d.com/kentauros-centaur-outfit-textures    If he wants to survive until the next battle, he better starts to wear forearm protections and wrist gards

    the idea here is to "Chest" bump the enemy...

    https://www.daz3d.com/axoran-demonic-armor-regalia-for-genesis-8-males   This one - well, he better doesn't tilt his head too much

    Looks neet, but yeah, it's armor designed to kill the wearer. I mean seriously, the weight of the horns alone is probably 20 pounds total, and as far cantilevered in front of him... yeah, those chin horns are going right into the chest. not to mention he can't lift his arm more than 10 degrees without hitting his own head with the shoulder "protection".

    I've come to the mix and match belief... the weapons are another "peave" - sorry, that cool looking "Axe" or hammer, it's solid steel? Oh crud, weighs over a hundred pounds and you can't even lift it, let alone "weild" it? Poor, Poor dead warrior...

    But truth is it is "fantasy" and fantasy dictates (at least in 3D modeling worlds,) that the best warriors are practically naked females (except for the high heeled, thich high boots and tattered stockings complete with garter belts) and weild weapons that are 170% of thier own body weight while riding on flying dragons blowing fire ahead of them (never mind the back draft from the wind force would roast both the dragon and the rider...) it's Fantasy after all laugh

  • ViallyVially Posts: 344
    NylonGirl said:
    dracorn said:

    My pet peeve is armor pieces that are WAY too big to be practical.  Take the Kadis armor for example.  That pauldron has gotta weigh 30 pounds at least.  She wouldn't be able to lift her arm.  

    And don't forget weapons that are ridiculously too big - especially being wielded by women.  I once picked up a replica of William Wallace's claymore - I could barely lift the thing. 

    You underestimate their power.

    Amen.

    "In particular, the study mentions the Battle of Agincourt, where the outnumbered English defeated the French in a decisive victory. Askew and others believe that the course of battle may have been influenced by the armored French soldiers marching across freshly plowed, muddy fields in their already heavy armor, dooming them against English longbow men. Then again, no historical debate is so easily settled. "It is arguably the persistence of the French knights in trying to charge the English lines on horseback at Agincourt that actually brings about their defeat,"

    And that shoulder piece, solid steel or iron, 2" thick, (based on width of edge of peice on left shoulder,) if solid, you are talking about 100pnd (and that's the 'smaller' piece.) All that on her shoulders yet she wears a barely there loin cloth for her genitals... hey, I got a light sword, guess wear I'm going to aim, ever hear the phrase "gutted like a fish"?

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 7,198

    Take a look at some Samurai armour and the practicality seems low, but there is no denying how effective it was. Here is an image from the Pitt-Rivers Museum of one of their exhibits, not wildly practical, but it seems typical. OK, no spikes, but the shoulder armour and helmet seem nuts.

  • MalandarMalandar Posts: 776
    Gordig said:
    Hylas said:

    I admittedly haven't seen a spiked thigh band IRL. But spiked chokers, belts, and wrist bands were popular throughout the 80es and again in the early 00es. The spikes aren't sharp at all and you can't really hurt yourself with them. Not sure about wearing them into battle, but hey, rule of cool.

    clank clank clank every time he turns his head...

    Needs more pouches. 

    And longer legs.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Malandar said:
    Gordig said:
    Hylas said:

    I admittedly haven't seen a spiked thigh band IRL. But spiked chokers, belts, and wrist bands were popular throughout the 80es and again in the early 00es. The spikes aren't sharp at all and you can't really hurt yourself with them. Not sure about wearing them into battle, but hey, rule of cool.

    clank clank clank every time he turns his head...

    Needs more pouches. 

    And longer legs.

    Spikes on the inside.

  • 3anson3anson Posts: 314

    if someone desires outfits that do not get made by PA's or Daz3D themselves, they have only one practical choice to make....

    learn to model, rig and texture outfits themselves.

    Products are aimed at the 'general' market, ie they are made so as to appeal to the largest audience.

    'Real World', 'Practical Armour' is more of a 'niche' market that generally will not have a good ratio of time/effort to return on time.

    There are also limitations on how 'Realistic' armour can be made and rigged. ( we can only get 'closeish' with RL armour rigging, as RL articulation/interaction is VERY hard to replicate in 3D.)

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232
    Malandar said:
    Gordig said:
    Hylas said:

    clank clank clank every time he turns his head...

    Needs more pouches. 

    And longer legs.

    Needs to stand on a little rotating platform to look behind him, because there's no way he'll be able to turn his head (and keep it on his shoulders) wearing that...

  • SlimerJSpudSlimerJSpud Posts: 1,456

    It probably goes back to Anime style where you find spikey armor and oversize weapons. What we're seeing here is the conflict between a style that originated in hand-drawn Anime and Manga vs. photorealistic rendering. When I see impossibly spikey armor I think Witchblade. There was even a Witchblade style set for V3! When I see oversize weapons, I think Kingdom Hearts. Maybe if these items were rendered in toon style, they wouldn't look so outrageous.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    It probably goes back to Anime style where you find spikey armor and oversize weapons. What we're seeing here is the conflict between a style that originated in hand-drawn Anime and Manga vs. photorealistic rendering. When I see impossibly spikey armor I think Witchblade. There was even a Witchblade style set for V3! When I see oversize weapons, I think Kingdom Hearts. Maybe if these items were rendered in toon style, they wouldn't look so outrageous.

    yes

  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 6,322

    (All armor is designed by dragons.)

  • DripDrip Posts: 1,238
    It would be nice if content creators kept in mind the ability to turn "on or off" certain aspects of their outfits...would grab a larger user base. A lot of times this aspect is possible if pre-planned correctly, but other times it wouldn't be practical...kind of up to the whim of the PA.

    Most of the time, these spikes are on a seperate material set, so relatively easy to just make them transparent. And most of the time they were sculpted seperately and placed on top of the cloth/leather/straps/whatevers beneath them, instead of sculpting them out of those, which would increase the amount of polygons involved by 16 to 64 per spike.

  • Gordig said:

    Complaints about too many of a certain type of item in the store are inherently frivolous, since you're under no obligation to buy or use anything. What would you like there to be more of?

    More stuff that I see when I walk around town... about 90% of all the female clothes I see in the shop might be seen on a catwalk, but not in normal life...

    But like, if you want to see the stuff you see when you’re walking about town, why don’t you just go walk about town...?

    I get different strokes for different folks, but a lot of this stuff is inherently fantasy— as in, things that are not achievable in real life. Crazy body proportions, crazy clothes, crazy locations.

    A lot of art is about the extraordinary. The fact that something looks impractical or unrealistic is part of its appeal. It’s a way to experience something you simply could not and would not be able to experience in real life.

    It’s like arguing about how dragons would be impossible by the laws of physics and nature. You can argue about the limitations of realism until you’re blue in the face but you’d be missing the point— the fact that they are impossible in real life is what makes them appealing to the imagination.

    Kicking ass while wearing heels and a metal bikini or going into battle wearing your body weight in armor and adornments is just fantasy, and that’s what makes it fun.

    if that’s not your bag, I get it. But understand there is an appeal, and that’s why it sells. 

    If the OP wants realism for their novel covers, they are more than free to commission a wide variety of stock photo artists on sites like deviantart, tumblr, and instagram. But using a medium that is specifically geared for the extraordinary and beyond reality and then complaining that it’s not realistic enough seems strange to me.

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 3,037
    A lot of art is about the extraordinary. The fact that something looks impractical or unrealistic is part of its appeal. It’s a way to experience something you simply could not and would not be able to experience in real life.

    A lot of art is also about common things..

    And when the extraordinary becomes the main thing, it stops being extraordinary...

    The argument of "X sells, so PAs make more and more of it" only works if there would really be a way to compare the sales. If more "ordinary" stuff of high quality would be made, mayhaps it would sell as well? But when there is none or only stuff of low useability, it is quite obvious that sales will be lower. Kinda like with all the non-existent high quality male stuff on the shop. What isn't there can't sell.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,613

    But like, if you want to see the stuff you see when you’re walking about town, why don’t you just go walk about town...?

    I get different strokes for different folks, but a lot of this stuff is inherently fantasy— as in, things that are not achievable in real life. Crazy body proportions, crazy clothes, crazy locations.

    A lot of art is about the extraordinary. The fact that something looks impractical or unrealistic is part of its appeal. It’s a way to experience something you simply could not and would not be able to experience in real life.

    It’s like arguing about how dragons would be impossible by the laws of physics and nature. You can argue about the limitations of realism until you’re blue in the face but you’d be missing the point— the fact that they are impossible in real life is what makes them appealing to the imagination.

    Kicking ass while wearing heels and a metal bikini or going into battle wearing your body weight in armor and adornments is just fantasy, and that’s what makes it fun.

    if that’s not your bag, I get it. But understand there is an appeal, and that’s why it sells. 

    If the OP wants realism for their novel covers, they are more than free to commission a wide variety of stock photo artists on sites like deviantart, tumblr, and instagram. But using a medium that is specifically geared for the extraordinary and beyond reality and then complaining that it’s not realistic enough seems strange to me.

    This is all nonsense. Yes, a lot of 3D art happens to be fantastical, for a wide variety of reasons, but that in no way means that 3D art is SUPPOSED to be that way. More realistic, everyday subject matter is just as valid for 3D art as sci-fi/fantasy/toons, and there's no justifiable reason to argue against making products that cater to that.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,359

    Let's not let this degenerate into an argument about what is the right way to do art, or even fantastic art. Different people have different desiderata and deal-breakers, please respect that and do not expect others to share your valuations.

  • WinterMoonWinterMoon Posts: 2,016

    If DS and Poser were inherently meant only for creating fantasy and Sci-Fi art, I somehow don't think we'd have so many bus stops and bathrooms. wink

  • nelsonsmithnelsonsmith Posts: 1,337
    edited July 2019

    In reality, I think the society moved away from the completely unrealistic a long time ago (and that is when the fantasy genre actually got a foothold with the mainstream).  Sure a few people still like that old racy stuff (I even enjoy myself) , and that demographic dominates Daz forums at least, but that's not generally the artwork that appeals to the general public. 

    Now I don't believe you should strong arm anybody into doing stuff they aren't into, and if the current PA's like ridiculous high heels on armours, or stripper fashions that defy gravity, more power to them.  The market place ultimately decides these things.  But it would be a good thing to remember that if the option is present to include or not include many of these items, you double your sales with the crowd that has passed adolescence.  And if there is a market for something that nobody seems to be addressing, than yeah, it's time to learn to model and maybe become a PA yourself.  The fact that you want something you're not seeing doesn't mean, as some like to imply, that you're some minority out there. Odds are a lot more people than you think are wanting the same thing.

    After all I remember when PA's claimed nobody wanted figures of non-WASP female characters that didn't look to be in their mid-20's with silicon injected lips and huge boobs.  Obviously now that's changed and Daz is the better for it.  An artist now has options other than simply doing renders of scantily clad fashion models.  The fact that Daz expanded it's market is one of the reasons it escaped the Poser stigma, although there is a vocal segment that embrace that and want Daz to stay a niche software.

    Post edited by nelsonsmith on
  • Faeryl WomynFaeryl Womyn Posts: 3,739

    You think what's in the Daz store is bad...have you seen what game characters wear and how big their weapons are and yet they can move and not kill themselves...lol

  • WinterMoonWinterMoon Posts: 2,016

    I believe we need some of these babies in the store.

  • nelsonsmithnelsonsmith Posts: 1,337
    Gordig said:
    This is all nonsense. Yes, a lot of 3D art happens to be fantastical, for a wide variety of reasons, but that in no way means that 3D art is SUPPOSED to be that way. More realistic, everyday subject matter is just as valid for 3D art as sci-fi/fantasy/toons, and there's no justifiable reason to argue against making products that cater to that.

    Agreed, even within the realm of fantasy and sci-fi, not all artists are striving for the fantastical.  You can have a fantasy element within a work of art  which otherwise would not be impractical, or unrealistic; and those "realistic' touches wouldn't  take away one iota from the appeal or the imagination of the piece.  This is why people want realistic castles, locations and period accurate clothing in addition to completely imaginary stuff.  Not every artist is rendering fairytales or cheese cake pinups.

  • SlimerJSpudSlimerJSpud Posts: 1,456
    JOdel said:

    (All armor is designed by dragons.)

    Yeah, but it can still get stuck in their teeth...

     

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