I use to shop here.
RitaCeleste
Posts: 625
I bought Genesis, Genesis 2, and Genesis 3. I could not jump on V8 after decking out G3 with morphs and the skin builder. I had just got my stuff together and was ready to go, but no it was on to V8 and do it all over again. I saw Sickleyeild's clothing converters and I was about to finally start getting V8 stuff. But then I had to update daz studio. I asked myself what is in this update? So I am watching videos about strand hair, and then here it comes, PAs will have hair physics and you won't, enjoy! I am disgusted and that does not begin to cover it. Just because I have wasted thousands of dollars if I don't play with my stuff doesn't really matter to me right now. I don't have to continue to throw money at this. I've been out of it for about a year, I couldn't wait to spend money and waste hours converting clothing, making new outfits by layering clothes that wouldn't layer before and coloring them up with shaders. I love some of the artists here. They really try. But I can wait a little longer to do this.
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Comments
I use to be cool.
I use to rule the world.
Your call. Daz has to make money to keep the lights on, it's a business afterall. I personally believe the PAs should have some tools not avaliable to the users, so I have no issue with it. Nothing keeping you from using what you already have though, so enjoy!
And PAs give DAZ 50% of their sales to DAZ, I think it's fair to have access to these tools to compensate..
Eventually (G9?), users will have to upgrade their hardware to render even a single character. Will they???
A huge part of DAZ's marketing is to make us feel that we all need the latest figures, latest dForce clothing, latest strand hair etc. I fall for that as much as anyone else, but sometimes it is necessary to take a step back and ask yourself why you want to buy something new. If you have a large collection of Genesis 3 figures and add-ons, then you can make images that are just as good as those made by someone with all the latest Genesis 8 figures.
I stopped shopping with Daz for about 5 years because I wasn't happy with some of their business decisions. However, I looked in about 2 years ago, liked the newer models and decided to give Daz Studio another go. During those 5 years of not shopping here though, I continued to use what I had to make images.
As for the dForce hair, I agree that it feels unfair that Daz have added a new feature and then restricted access to it. Personally though, the reason that I buy content is that I either don't have time, or am too lazy to make my own content, so missing out on those tools isn't really a huge loss.
If you enjoy making 3D art, then do it - don't let the idea that there are newer things in the store spoil your enjoyment and use of your own collection.
This^
I don't understand how the restrictions on dForce hair keeps you from doing what you were originally planning to do, which is buying G8 articles and converting them to G3. Am I missing something?
I leave you this
a couple of videos I just watched on YouTube by Virtual world Dynamics
...yeah, still have a backlog of G3 stuff on the wishlist. I didn't see G8 as enough of an improvement to warrant dumping a tonne of money into a whole new figure line. Then they started coming out with more "real everyday" looking (as opposed to fashion model/hunk) characters than previous versions of Genesis had as well as clothing and hair styles I wished we had years ago.
I have to concur. G8F characters especially - more real-world, ordinary people than any of their predecessors. G8M? Well, I still have none of the G8 males and I can't see a reason to start buying them because I have a variety from George and Abel to Dale and Ivan, so I do have G3M variety already.
I'm not too fussed about not having access to HD morphing tools. There are alternatives as discussed in various threads here. Dforce hair for all would be nice though. Finally, I have bought Marvelous Designer 8 and am determined to learn (when I get back from a prolonged overseas trip) how to make clothes for my characters.
No. Contrary to popular opinion the Genesis series have actually becoming lighter weighted from a polygon point of view compared to earlier generations. Having said that they do have more texture maps, which is intended to give extra realism for close up portraits, and these do consume a lot of resources. However you have the option to strip out these maps and/or reduce their resolution, and for characters in the medium or background you will see no drop in quality. For rendering scenes with many people the newer generations are better, or at least no worse, than the earlier ones, but only if you know how to optimise them.
Don't forgt that you can also apply dForce (cloth-style) to Strand Based Hair in DS.
Yeh I like VWD and still use it.
I use both dforce and VWD, dforce is easier when it works as it says on the tin, but for non-dforce, I often find it more versatile to use VWD. Depends.
and get a BSOD tried that first day they released it
I'm sorry you consider it a waste.
Use what you have, enjoy the results.
Buy something if it adds something new to your workflow and toolset, and feel it is worth it. Obviously the decission is yours.
I wasn't expecting to jump on 8, but I really liked what it did have that G3 didn't, which related to posing and the associated deformations - especially in the face.
Once I have something that does what I need it to do, I stop buying newer stuff.
My car is an '87, my motorcycle a '99, my OS is Win7. And Linux.
Genesis 3 is good, Studio 4.9 as well. No need for the latest shiny to create art.
You really do not need the latest studio or G8 to enjoy making Art.
If you are happy with G3 and the stuff you have for her, why not keep on using it.
I am still with DS 4.10 and do not feel the need for Strand based Hair.
I use what I have.
no ... not for that. i will stay with what is.
C’est la vie. At some point if it is no longer fun then find something enjoyable. While it would be nice to have access to certain tools that’s the way businesss sometimes work, developer tools are use by specifics developers and not by the general public.
nothing forces you to upgrade or from learning how to do some of the things you want independently though.
or you wait for alternatives
I prefer VWD to Dforce for clothes too, in animations it does not explode
Limiting access to tools limits the number of people they need to support using them. It's all about lowering overhead.
Hm, so it wasn't a waste of money that I bought it couple of years ago? BTW, reminds me that it maybe will work with my old CPU (dForce won't).
Though I guess it won't be useful if you want to create commercial dForce stuff for DS.
Yeah, I have the stuff to put gen 8 stuff on G3. I have decided to work on getting my clothes to fit Gen 8 and then I can move them back to Gen 3 as needed and they are ready for the next upgrade. I like making shaders and playing with the outfits and making characters. There are some artists I like and will collect their things but for the most part I am moving to as needed buying. I will buy a scene because I am standing a girl in it and rendering it in 10 minutes. I got sucked into sales and upgrading early on. I am just not onboard with PA only features. It was such a daunting task to make the shader sets I wanted to use and fit the clothing items to the current character, get all the stuff for character building I never had time to make images. My computer died and my shaders were not backed up or all the reworks I had done on my seamless tiles. It was always easier to check the sales and say when I have x,y, z, then I can make characters. I am past that point now. there won't be much in my wish list for awhile. There is no reason to punish myself or artists I like just because I dislike a few things Daz does. But I do have other things I like to do as well and I am cutting the budget over-all for this hobby. I have spent a lot, I have a lot of stuff to work with. Maybe I'll save up for 3dcoat or something.
I may delay upgrading to V8 until I have done the other things I want to do. Build shader sets for my personal use and converting my wardrobe. My new computer was acting up and I was worried about losing the hard drive again but it seems stable now. It is crappy to keep certain tools for Daz PAs only. It just is, no excuses, it just is.
And yeah, I'm gonna think long and hard about how much money I tie up in this. In the end, in order to use the products I've bought, I'll need Daz Studio to use the stuff. While I like the idea fo investing in data and virtual products rather than buying junk that fills up landfills and feel its a greener thing to do with my cash, how dependant do I want to be made by my own investments? I am going to invest less in my Daz library. I am going to diversify my life and hobbies. I am going to make sure if I walk away, its no sweat off my back, its just money in the bank for me in the future to do other things with.
give it another go but grab latest updated files from Rendo
I hate to rebuy everything when a new generation comes out as well. I think there should be a better upgrade path for users, more incentive to upgrade...like a nominal fee to get new versions of all the tools and morphs that you bought for previous gens. So, a $20 new version of (X)morphs, utilities, textures, etc...would be $5 to users that already own the previous generation versions. It would make the switch more of an upgrade and less of a complete reinvestment. This often happens with sales in any case. But, it would be nice if it just happened at the outset of the release. It could work in a PA's favor to ensure that most of previous users buy at the release rather than waiting for a sale. However, I don't know the numbers. If it isn't advantageous to them...meaning that current users will buy anyway...then, I can understand why they don't place these kinds of incentives.
That said, although I think your complaint has merit, the truth is that any retail market has always been about promoting the latest and greatest in order to sell more product. Except for true necessities, like basic groceries, there has to be angle to get people to buy things they want rather than need. How many people really need an iPhone X? That's a big investment just so you can browse the internet a bit faster and take nicer photos. People got great results from an iPhone 5. But, that didn't stop a huge number of people from shelling out another $1000 to get the latest from Apple. I myself am in the midst of a kitchen upgrade (a real one, not 3D LOL). Did my wife and I really need it?...probably not...although, there might be an argument there. But here we are, spending thousands of dollars on stainless steel appliances...etc.
No one is forced to upgrade to the newer generations of Daz. Studio 11 is still compatible with all the earlier models. And, they still render very nicely. Some of the earlier models, I like better than G8 versions. And, if you just want to buy some G8 items or figures, most can be used without all the additional support utilities.
I think maybe the real issue is just how hard it is to stop feeling like you must upgrade. I know I get that bug everytime a new generation comes out. But, I can't blame Daz or the PAs for wanting to give users a reason to buy more models.
The real crisis for many will be when a newer and better render engine comes out that requires all new materials. I can only hope there will be some great conversion tools when that happens. Because, I have a huge library of clothing models and Iray shaders. The expense to redo all of those would be immense.
People can learn to make strand based hair using the supplied editor, it just won't be dynamic.
People can adjust the settings for dynamic hair, which will let them learn how those work.
A new render engine is a total nightmare for vendors too. Iray did some Vendors in, It almost did me in too, lol.
But It has to be done sometimes in the name of progress....
Like any market, If this one stands still for too long - it stagnates and then collapes.
Its noticable for Daz figure generations which have about a 3 year life cycle, and often by year 3 you can start to feel the burn out.
...been working with G3 for four years now and nowhere near feeling burned out with it.
Thats cool, I meant - burn out though sales, for the latest Character / Outfit / what have you, Depends on the indervidual product too of course, but its generally a noticable pattern that the overall reception seems to start dropping around that time, just because the market starts to get abit saturated with content for that given Gen.