Possible issue/question about OOT Shirley and Sophia hairs
SnowSultan
Posts: 3,773
This could be something on my end, but I noticed something about the two most recent OOT hair props that I purchased that I don't remember seeing before.
When you apply a Blow preset or dial to the Shirley Hair or the Sophia Hair and then turn the figure's head, most of the hair 'sticks' to the blown pose; it doesn't turn with the head. Is this intentional and if so, is there a way to disable it? I can see it being useful in some situations, but it's problematic in others.
Thanks for any information.
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Comments
Both of those are long hairs, so I'm presuming that they're weight mapped to the torso/shoulders in order that they drape around the shoulders rather than clipping through them.
You may want to parent them to the head rather than fitting them to the figure, as this way they won't follow the rest of the figure pose.
Have you tried turning the head first, then applying the style?
Yeah, they need to be parented to avoid that problem. Turning the head and then loading the hair or applying the style doesn't fix it, as long as it's fit to the head, it will stick to the position. That's a bit of a shame and hopefully something OOT will provide some sort of optional toggle for in future hair products.
Yeah I stopped buying long conforming hair awhile back because it's so hard to pose and make it look natural. Sorry you are having issues like this though.
Took a peek at the Shirley hair weight maps & bone setup.
Can see clearly why only a smaller portion of hair moving. See image 1 for weight maps. Only a portion is weight mapped to the head with diminishing gradient for proper blending.
Further away from the head the hair has custom bones. If you want to manipulate them you can do so individually or as a group. See images 2 and 3. Haven't worked with DAZ yet in depth, so can't say for sure how involved or possible it would be for OOT to make moprhs to follow rotation of head. But TBH, the way OOT has it rigged up now, you already have way more control over end appearance with all those custom bones you can manip individually and as a group.
Thanks for those pics Saxa, I will try experimenting more with those bones to get the results I want. I was hoping for some long hair that looked thick and flowing on a character that is falling, but frankly, none that I have or recently bought will do the job without postwork.
FSMC, yeah I get it, although I still think current dynamic hair looks more like angel hair pasta than a replacement for transmapped hair. We're making good progress with the new tools, but we're not there yet.
Do you mean like Lindsey's DF-hair but for other hairstyles? Love hair expression, so wondering what you are after?
Are you more for RL realism? And less stylistic-cartoony dramatic? That's one thing that's great with hairs like OOT's Shirley. It's luxurious with many poseable strands. More work though and for any who want heavy realism can see where it doesn't quite fit their needs.
I have Lindsey's first dForce hair (the straight one) and have had no luck getting dynamic motion out of it. It's excellent for pinups and reclining poses where you need hair to fall naturally over limbs and body shapes, but I haven't been able to use it well in action scenes.
I think the problem I'm having now is that when wind and movement morphs are applied to long hair, it tends to really thin it out. This is understandable and usually realistic, but again, it doesn't look interesting in dynamic scenes. I'll just fill it in with postwork, but it can be a bit stressful to wonder how it will look in the end when you're rendering the initial scene.
Probably going to pick up a few more OOT hairs that I don't have while they're 60% off, as they're still my go-to choice. I like the styles of April's hair sets too, but the limitations of transmapping geometry often forces a lot of postwork to be done on those hairs for them to match the realism of the figure's textures. Not April's fault, it's just much easier to create photorealistic skin than hair.
Mmm. You made me curious. See what you mean about dynamic motion. First 2 images at bottom is what I got using animation timeline and quick turns to force more dramatic DF hair. It's not great. Would guess easiest need more hair-cloth subsets and pose them before anim-sim to get looking more natural? Making collision objects for the DF-hair would probably make them look unnatural.
Also curious about this. Took a quick peek at your DevArt to see what themes you have. Keeping with a theme I saw, tried to pose something a bit more dynamic. Thought it turned out not too bad? Can see how the further out strands need some more definition.
3rd image is with 1 copy of Shirly Hair, and 4th is with 2 copies of Shirley Hair with the right side having some strands posed differently to increase volume. Edit: added a 5th image (which is this enlarged one) with some strands repositioned, didn't like the look when i got back and took another look. If this is not in line with what you were wanting, would you have some examples of what you think is not too thin, and looks interesting?
Thank you very much for these new posts and for viewing my own art, you certainly don't need to go to this much trouble. :) Your last examples look pretty good and that's about as good as I've come to expect from 3D hair to be honest. I would still probably fill in some spots and the wisps with painted hair or at least try a duplicate hair set like you did on the fourth one.
I think that's just the way it is when it comes to 3D hair in motion, and I also need to spend a little more time exploring the bones of hair sets to find more ways to move them around. There are more options in some of them than might appear at first.
LOL, thanks. But you seem to be trying to push and expand possibilities for 3D hair, which interests me alot too. You raised a really interesting limitation with this thread, and me still being pretty new to DAZ, thought was a great chance to test somethings and thought maybe some renders would generate something new or maybe some others to chime in to for more action oriented hair.
Maybe one way to describe this render focus is maybe a blend between cartoons and super realistic? A still frame that tries to have an animation feel to it too?
Anyway, was glad you posted this topic. Thanks.