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A DAZ Studio Version to Render in Metal?

inquireinquire Posts: 2,435
in Daz Studio Discussion

Not sure if this should be in the Developer Discussion, but I'm not a developer. Basically, I'm questioning what happens to the Macintosh version of DAZ Studio if Apple drops Open GL and Open CL, and replaces it with Metal, which it looks likely to do in its upcoming release of OS 10.15. I'm hoping that the developers of DAZ Studio will want to allow Macintosh users to be able to render in the new OS. Is there any interface with Apple on the part of the DAZ Studio Developer Community?

Comments

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,798

    Daz usually doesn't give info on what evolutions or features will be coming for Studio.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,798
    edited June 2019

    Edit: removing double post

    Post edited by Leana on
  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,435
    Leana said:

    Daz usually doesn't give info on what evolutions or features will be coming for Studio.

    Yeah, I know. I was hoping for some reassurrance, though.

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 12,538

    Daz is aware. Daz has been, and is currently, investigating multiple potential solutions - none of which are Mac specific, and no Mac only solutions will be investigated. Changes of this magnitude involve a rather significant amount of work. That is all that we know at the moment that can be said on the matter. No promises will be made.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,435

    OK, Cris. Thank you for that insight.

  • Former DAZ CustomerFormer DAZ Customer Posts: 167
    edited June 2019

    If OpenGL and OpenCL libraries are included in the video driver, Apple dropping OS support will only affect apps that use Apple's own UI libraries. Presumably, DAZ Studio and Iray should still be able use those libraries?

    Post edited by Former DAZ Customer on
  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,435

    I don't know. I'm not knowledgable about those things. But will Open GL and Open CL libraries be included in the video driver?

  • Former DAZ CustomerFormer DAZ Customer Posts: 167

    Both AMD and Nvidea currently include OpenCL runtime libraries.  I don't see why that would change, nor why they wouldn't include Open GL runtime libraries where the OS doesn't already provide them.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,435

    Well, I hope so. But Apple is including a kind of specail twist to the AMD cards that will launch in the new Macs. I think Apple's intent is replace both Open GL and Open CL with what it calls Metal, its own graphic rendering software.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,435

    Just found this here: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/270902-apple-defends-killing-opengl-opencl-as-developers-threaten-revolt

    " . . .  Metal (technically Metal 2 now) is an API designed to minimize CPU usage and limit the amount of time a GPU spends waiting on the CPU to finish processing work. These low-level APIs are quite different from previous versions of OpenGL and DirectX. That difference, according to Apple, is a key component of why it’s deprecating the older standards now. GPU pipelines, support for multi-threading, and asynchronous compute capabilities have all changed a great deal over the past decade, and Apple wants to make a clean break from the past. 

     . . . 

    "Right now, Apple is just deprecating the standard. OpenGL won’t be used or preferred, but it isn’t going anywhere, either. But in the future — probably in the next few years — that’ll inevitably change. Again, that’s something we can generally count on, because Apple isn’t in the habit of just leaving support for deprecated capabilities in its operating systems. When it told developers to start prioritizing 64-bit apps in the iOS App Store, it was as a prelude to removing the ability to run 32-bit applications altogether. It’s since told macOS users to prepare for the same transition."

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,435

    I also think this article is significant:  https://architosh.com/2018/08/apple-moving-away-from-opengl-what-is-the-answer-for-developers-now/

     

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,435

    I hope you'll consider signing this petition: https://www.change.org/p/tim-cook-apple-publicly-commit-to-work-with-nvidia-on-drivers-for-mac-os-10-14

    It basically asks Apple to include drivers for Nvidia cards, and maybe the cards themselves as options, in its new OS 10.15.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,435

    Here's an article that does explain Apple's switch to Metal, and the advantages that Metal has over Open GL or Open CL: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/06/28/why-macos-mojave-requires-metal----and-deprecates-opengl

    This made me feel more positive toward Metal.

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805

    Apple has lost their minds. OpenGL and OpenCL are, its right their in the name, open standards. Lots of different pieces of software use them and rely on them. Dumping them for their proprietary API means they will squeeze out every piece of software without a big enough dev team to develop a MacOS specific version, and every larger team that will not spend the money to do so.

    I'll have to look into how this will effect Windows programs run under Bootcamp. If they are going to mess with OpenGL and OpenCL even running on Windows that could be a real problem.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,435

    @kenshaw011267: So, are you running Windows on a Macintosh computer, using Bootcamp? If so, how does that work? Are you questioning if you would be able to continue doing that if OpenGL and OpenCL were dropped in OS 10.15? Wouldn't they be contained within Windows?

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