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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,799

    I discovered how to do spring bones in Unreal Engine 4 Third person player blueprints recently devil

     

    Jacques Casual has a script for DAZ studio

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 871
    marble said:
    Saxa -- SD said:
    marble said:

     If people are happy animating statues and Barbie Dolls, there's no wonder DAZ feels no need to develop soft body physics.

    Pretty sure DAZ is aware of the strong interest for soft body physics in some quarters.  What's unclear is how they feel this is something they can monetize and how it impacts their current image. 

    Think we're just getting to the point where this is becoming feasible in the timeline.  Even with RTX2080Ti would still be a bit clunky and slow, today anyway. 

    And they have to decide how to market this, as they seem to want to cultivate the public image of family oriented first.  More leaning towards a Disney Channel family type image.  Which can understand, in a way with the culture we live in.

    And building a long-lasting physics system capable of realism is not that small a task.  If they are really serious about making it a good product they have to figure out how they are going to allow for parameter changing.  Soft body physics in some ways is more complex than straight dForce because of angular and collision responses. 

    Ideally they would find a way to use existing SDKs, like Bullet Physics.

    Gotta say, think a survey showing votes in terms of prioritizing soft body physics vs correct floor solving may yield surprising results. 

    Where DAZ leadership sits on this issue is a whole other topic.  Because at the moment Daz remains at the head of the pack for 3D products, they have luxury to let this remain undeveloped.  Long term am not so sure that is an option for DAZ.

     

    I wrote a long reply only to delete it because I knew that my opinions on these matters would bring the mods into action in an instant. Suffice to say that I take issue with some of your points but not necessarily with your assessment of what may happen going forward. I'd mention, in passing, that there is a one-man developer using Unity as a development environment who has soft-body physics working pretty well in real time, in VR, using DAZ characters (under licence) and it does so on my modest GTX 1070. It needs some polish and there is a sacrifice in terms of close-up realism but it is a hint of what is possible right now.

    Hope you didn't take any of what I wrote as an attack on you? Share your original frustration about no soft body physics available.  If you did, sorry, was not meant that way at all.

    Can you DM me a linky to this Unity Dev - preferably with a 2D vid example?  Always interested to see.  (Know you can't post if here publically due to TOS)

    Totally agree in RT that it is being done decently well today, and actually already for a few years.  My comment was about how well it work in the DAZ IRAY environment today, which is clunky enough for dForce as it is, in exchange to get some of the high quality Daz 3D-stuff we do enjoy.  And I do feel DAZ does focus on long-term value & fit for some of their decisions, and would imagine physics would be a part of that.

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 871
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    I discovered how to do spring bones in Unreal Engine 4 Third person player blueprints recently devil

     

    Jacques Casual has a script for DAZ studio

    smiley  haha, your spring bones look very enthusiastic! Just need some for the backside too, lol. 

    Thanx for tip on Casual script.  Am kinda looking for something ....ummm more complex yet.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,799

    think they mean the VAM VR game where you can interact virtually with a DAZ figure that is very uhm dynamic 

    I have seen lots of videos about it and a few forumites who own VR headsets use it

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,449
    Saxa -- SD said:
    marble said:
    Saxa -- SD said:
    marble said:

     If people are happy animating statues and Barbie Dolls, there's no wonder DAZ feels no need to develop soft body physics.

    Pretty sure DAZ is aware of the strong interest for soft body physics in some quarters.  What's unclear is how they feel this is something they can monetize and how it impacts their current image. 

    Think we're just getting to the point where this is becoming feasible in the timeline.  Even with RTX2080Ti would still be a bit clunky and slow, today anyway. 

    And they have to decide how to market this, as they seem to want to cultivate the public image of family oriented first.  More leaning towards a Disney Channel family type image.  Which can understand, in a way with the culture we live in.

    And building a long-lasting physics system capable of realism is not that small a task.  If they are really serious about making it a good product they have to figure out how they are going to allow for parameter changing.  Soft body physics in some ways is more complex than straight dForce because of angular and collision responses. 

    Ideally they would find a way to use existing SDKs, like Bullet Physics.

    Gotta say, think a survey showing votes in terms of prioritizing soft body physics vs correct floor solving may yield surprising results. 

    Where DAZ leadership sits on this issue is a whole other topic.  Because at the moment Daz remains at the head of the pack for 3D products, they have luxury to let this remain undeveloped.  Long term am not so sure that is an option for DAZ.

     

    I wrote a long reply only to delete it because I knew that my opinions on these matters would bring the mods into action in an instant. Suffice to say that I take issue with some of your points but not necessarily with your assessment of what may happen going forward. I'd mention, in passing, that there is a one-man developer using Unity as a development environment who has soft-body physics working pretty well in real time, in VR, using DAZ characters (under licence) and it does so on my modest GTX 1070. It needs some polish and there is a sacrifice in terms of close-up realism but it is a hint of what is possible right now.

    Hope you didn't take any of what I wrote as an attack on you? Share your original frustration about no soft body physics available.  If you did, sorry, was not meant that way at all.

    Can you DM me a linky to this Unity Dev - preferably with a 2D vid example?  Always interested to see.  (Know you can't post if here publically due to TOS)

    Totally agree in RT that it is being done decently well today, and actually already for a few years.  My comment was about how well it work in the DAZ IRAY environment today, which is clunky enough for dForce as it is, in exchange to get some of the high quality Daz 3D-stuff we do enjoy.  And I do feel DAZ does focus on long-term value & fit for some of their decisions, and would imagine physics would be a part of that.

    No offense taken at all - I actually agree with you on some points. No, the post I deleted had to do with a certain hypocrisy on the part of DAZ when it comes to "family friendly". I could rant about that for a while but it would achieve nothing.

    Wendy is right - it is Virt-a-Mate (VAM). Lots of video examples on YouTube (non-explicit). As Wendy says, several DAZ users have subscribed to VAM (Patreon) for the VR experience as well as real time physics, dynamic cloth and animation features. I find it more awkward to pose figures than DAZ Studio but, as I said elsewhere, I've been posing in DAZ Studio for 15 years so that is hardly surprising. I found Poser awkward too - so much so that I gave up trying.

     

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 871

    Thanks guys!

    Checked out VAM and was interesting.  Nice to see RT physics on everything at once (hair, cloths, body).  But for me Daz realism is so hard to trade for that.  Main reason wanted to see VAM was see the quality of the physics.  Would say it falls in the range of intermediate from what I did see, which think fits with your assessment of decent. 

  • Serefina_MoonSerefina_Moon Posts: 106
    edited January 2020
    Saxa -- SD said:
     

    Think we're just getting to the point where this is becoming feasible in the timeline.  Even with RTX2080Ti would still be a bit clunky and slow, today anyway. 

     

    Absolutely incorrect. With the scripts that Masatok wrote, the calculations for several hundred frames worth of soft body physics, takes only a short time on my positively ancient i7-950 with GTX1060 and GTX760 (driving the screens). Just long enough to make a good cup of coffee.

    In comparison, the dForce calculations for a single cloth item on the same system for the same number of frames, when it works, can take several hours. Add hair, and that blows out to a day or two.

    In fact, one test animation I created for a short film project, rendering out to a convergence level that gave it a film-grain-like noise level, took less time to render at HD resolution, then the same characters dForce simulation.

    The soft body motions are needed to create the right movements in the dForce cloth on the figure, so skirts and blouses follow natural looking movements once the animation is assembled. It's useful for both female and male characters, wherever they are to be shown wearing clothes that are looser then skin tight.

    Yes, foot vs floor does need to be solved, but for animations is only really needed for wider angle shots. The moment we cut in to a close up or mid, the soft body physics are far more useful to be solved. Sadly, with v4.11 and v4.12 causing the scripts to fail, v4.10 is the best option for those of us wanting to have decent softbody physics.

    Post edited by Serefina_Moon on
  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 871
    Serefina_Moon said:
    Saxa -- SD said:
     

    Think we're just getting to the point where this is becoming feasible in the timeline.  Even with RTX2080Ti would still be a bit clunky and slow, today anyway. 

     

    Absolutely incorrect. With the scripts that Masatok wrote, the calculations for several hundred frames worth of soft body physics, takes only a short time on my positively ancient i7-950 with GTX1060 and GTX760 (driving the screens). Just long enough to make a good cup of coffee.

    LOL, You are completely misunderstanding where I was coming from.

    My angle is the appeal of physics in the long run (and for many other non currently DAZ users) in real time time  providing feedback in viewport.  It is from that perspective I wrote what I did.  And not waiting for a renders to churn through at if you are lucky 1 to 2 frames per minute for any decent image-size. 

    Everything I wrote for a bigger picture angle for long-term implementation, and having the best physics system.  Not just a mid-grade implementation that may need not be thought out from a whole environement planning POV. 

    But if your priorities are more immediate, and first rate is les important, then sure, why that would be bigger picture planing be a consideration for users who want it now. 

    My words mean nothing anyway.  It's a DAZ leadership topic. 

    And on another note, surprised it takes that long for dForce.  With optimization I can usually get heavy hair to dforce good enough in 45 seconds, and outfits are about same.

     

     

     

     

  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,587

    I don't mind the mods deleting everything I write. haha I am not a kid and you can't hurt my feelings. I don't lament what daz studio can't do I just use what it can do. I use DS for stills in Opengl or 3delight (if I need shadows) and do animation in software that uses game engine animation tools period. I have tried animation with Otoy Octain and Iray in Iclone 7 and it is horrible. I stick with what is fast even If I have to sacrifice level of detail so a model moves well in the game engine. Unity and Ureal are great with a good pair of VR googles but don't spend too much time those googles or they will fog up and cause you eye strain. I set a cell phone alarm and limit my time in VR to 1hr increments any more and you are asking for trouble. As far as breast movement is concerned I don't care about breast movement as much as making the model seem more alive by doing a couple of things like blinking a few times a second and a morph that expands the chest to simulate breathing. Something else that adds realism to your model is figiting. People move around alot and can't stand still so add little movements to head and posture ( most poses are too strait and most people slouch). Making something seem alive in animation is about all the little details. Hope this helps. ~ my 2 cents

  • left1000left1000 Posts: 41

    Is there anywhere you can go to find a copy of dazstudio 4.10 if you don't happen to just have it saved from the past?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    left1000 said:

    Is there anywhere you can go to find a copy of dazstudio 4.10 if you don't happen to just have it saved from the past?

    Daz 3d are the only place to obtain a legal copy.  file a help request  

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