Ready made pieces

Greetings,

So I am trying to create some ready made pieces for buildings, and I run into an interesting delema. While I can eventually figure out Hex math and get the right type of angle to roof trusses, what I'd like to do it Create a set of trusses, of different types, and use those whenever I need a particular pitch in a roof. If a roof pitch is based off a typical scale of x to 12, where X = the rise, then for a fairly shallow roof I would want say 4 to 12, or 4 rise to 12 span (units are "whatever") This would give me the common California pitch of 4/12. Okay all good, can do that. So now I have a truss, based on my 'Y' span... Issue is that if Y (span) increases, then the pitch gets lower, okay so raise the rise exponencially, great, I'm back to a 4/12, or 8/24 or 12/36... Issue, if I am doing this by scaling, then my lumber is also scaling, what started out as a 2x6 or 2x8 is now a 2x12 or worse... Trusses are just NOT build that way, and for an open rafter or attic loft building, it would just be out of place. at the most trusses are made with 2x8 material, very rarely they are 2x10 (but only the span and then only for weight bearing.)

Basic question is, is there a way to do this where the "lumber" isn't scaling up and remains the same regardless of span to rise?

 

Truss.jpg
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Comments

  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,657

    Do it with lines. Then, once you have it set up,add the mesh.

  • ViallyVially Posts: 316
    Ascania said:

    Do it with lines. Then, once you have it set up,add the mesh.

    Thanks for the reply.

    And so once it is setup with mesh, I save it off and call it 4x12 truss (as example) I load that into my next project and my span is 26 units, not 18... I pull the Span of my pre-built truss to be the correct 26 (units), and....  I'm gussing the pitch will change as the peak will remain at the same height, and if I scale the peak back up to where it belongs...

    My 2x8 truss is now a 2xY truss.

    Attached shows what I am talking about, essentially both pieces of truss are the same (one is a copy of the other.) The bottom one is a 2x6 Lumber at a 4x12 pitch. The top is the same pitch in ratio, it is a 8x24, to compensate for an increase in span. However, the "Lumber" has also changed by the x2 modifier and is now 12 units in height. I would like to find a way to make it remain at 2x6, if at all possible for a "pre-built" type of setup.

    This is a fairly simple design, (and most common), however truss systems can and do get very elaberate, even though they are following the same principles. 2nd image shows what I might have a use for in the designs. Gambrel Attic Truss... Hmm that's a barn, I see an attic loft, there is a tray ceiling, and etcetera. each type of roof having it's own requirements, as far as span and pitch, but the design remains the same.

    While writing this I think I may have though of how to make this slightly simpler, but it is still going in and re-inventing the wheel for each truss system.

    Will post what I find out, if it is a solution or not.

    Truss.png
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    Truss-Shapes.png
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  • KitsumoKitsumo Posts: 1,131
    Ascania said:

    Do it with lines. Then, once you have it set up,add the mesh.

    I'd vote for that method.

    I was thinking it might be easier to do in Daz Studio, set up hinges and bones that would resize dynamically without distorting the pieces. Then after you built it, you could export to Hexagon or wherever you need to use them. But then I realized everything in DS (and pretty much any program I can think of) would be a parent-child relationship, you can't really have interlocking pieces.

    It's good to know that someone here cares about structural integrity. I cringe every time I see an architectural set that can't possibly exist in real life. Most of these 2-level studio apartments are death traps; no supporting beams, no load bearing walls, just an upper floor made of adamantium reinforced concrete apparently. And don't get me started on the skylight that takes up almost the entire ceiling. That's enough for now. I could be here all day.laugh

  • ViallyVially Posts: 316
    Kitsumo said:
    Ascania said:

    Do it with lines. Then, once you have it set up,add the mesh.

    I'd vote for that method.

    I was thinking it might be easier to do in Daz Studio, set up hinges and bones that would resize dynamically without distorting the pieces. Then after you built it, you could export to Hexagon or wherever you need to use them. But then I realized everything in DS (and pretty much any program I can think of) would be a parent-child relationship, you can't really have interlocking pieces.

    It's good to know that someone here cares about structural integrity. I cringe every time I see an architectural set that can't possibly exist in real life. Most of these 2-level studio apartments are death traps; no supporting beams, no load bearing walls, just an upper floor made of adamantium reinforced concrete apparently. And don't get me started on the skylight that takes up almost the entire ceiling. That's enough for now. I could be here all day.laugh

    I personally just LOVE the floating staircases...

    Actually I "think" I figured that aspect out... Create the lumber at an appropriate span, then change the pivot point to an end (preferable what will be the bottom edge) rotate accordingly to roof pitch... 12/12 = 45Degrees, so 6/12 would be 22.5, and so on, once the pitch is correct then go on to build up the supporting structure 'M' or 'W' or whatever framing... Have to build it building by building, but one day someone will see that there is a need and program something.

    Which, brings me to my next question...

    Does DAZ have the ability to intersect walls and create a new form based on the intersection. Image probably explains more than I can.

    Basically; interior walls are not the same width as exterior walls, and they tend to be placed "where-ever", unless they are a supporting wall, in which case they are "usually" the same as the exterior walls. So, if I extend a supporting wall through the structure, and then a standard wall intersects with that; does HEX have a trim function that would allow me to push the end point of the interior wall, through the exterior wall a little, and then clip or trim it out... Creating a T shape from the remaining structure.

    I've tried Boolean, but it appears to go nuts if both aspects are of the same model or model object. (I.E. everything is walls, so it doesn't know what to grab or where.)

    I have been being very careful to make sure everything it in correct positioned, so technically I could line up the vertices with the outside edge, and then delete the faces, and then bridge back the exterior wall, but we are really starting to talk about a lot of extra work that really should be a simple process. I'm hoping I just haven't figured out where that functionality is.

    Thanks

    Intersection.png
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  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,657
    edited April 2019
    Vially said:
    Ascania said:

    Do it with lines. Then, once you have it set up,add the mesh.

    Thanks for the reply.

    And so once it is setup with mesh, I save it off and call it 4x12 truss (as example) I load that into my next project and my span is 26 units, not 18... I pull the Span of my pre-built truss to be the correct 26 (units), and....  I'm gussing the pitch will change as the peak will remain at the same height, and if I scale the peak back up to where it belongs...

    My 2x8 truss is now a 2xY truss.

    Attached shows what I am talking about, essentially both pieces of truss are the same (one is a copy of the other.) The bottom one is a 2x6 Lumber at a 4x12 pitch. The top is the same pitch in ratio, it is a 8x24, to compensate for an increase in span. However, the "Lumber" has also changed by the x2 modifier and is now 12 units in height. I would like to find a way to make it remain at 2x6, if at all possible for a "pre-built" type of setup.

    This is a fairly simple design, (and most common), however truss systems can and do get very elaberate, even though they are following the same principles. 2nd image shows what I might have a use for in the designs. Gambrel Attic Truss... Hmm that's a barn, I see an attic loft, there is a tray ceiling, and etcetera. each type of roof having it's own requirements, as far as span and pitch, but the design remains the same.

    While writing this I think I may have though of how to make this slightly simpler, but it is still going in and re-inventing the wheel for each truss system.

    Will post what I find out, if it is a solution or not.

    Once you have a mesh any change will distort it.

    That's why you work with lines in the first place. Get your dimensions right first and then finalise it as a mesh ready to use. If you need a different size go back to the line setup and sort it out there. You'll probably find that you'll build up a library of standard sizes that you can just reuse whenever.

    Post edited by Ascania on
  • I use various architecture apps for what you're doing.

  • ViallyVially Posts: 316

    I use various architecture apps for what you're doing.

    Yep, AutoCad does this on the fly now, just tell it you are drawing a wall how thick and how tall and boom... where it intersects with anything else called a "wall" you have an intersection. T or otherwise, H being another good example.

    But does HEX have anything that does this?

  • ViallyVially Posts: 316
    Ascania said:
    You'll probably find that you'll build up a library of standard sizes that you can just reuse whenever.
    Ascania said:
     

    Yep, a library is what I was hoping to build, of finished products that could be used. But you are right, working with it, I can see that there just isn't a reasonable way to do this is HEX. other than building each design by scratch.

  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,657

    Hexagon has no parametric or scripted objects, which is what will do the job in most other packages.

  • ShawnDriscollShawnDriscoll Posts: 361
    edited April 2019

    I export my architectures as OBJ into Hexagon and edit their details there.

    Post edited by ShawnDriscoll on
  • ViallyVially Posts: 316

    Yep, starting to realize that about the only aspects that might be able to be made into "plugin" pieces are some basic wall shapes in 4, 6, & 8" sizes based on a height of whatever...

    A "snap to" feature would be really, really nice, but I'm thinking that is as much of a pipe dream as the rest of my 'wishlist', even cabnets and/or appliances have little capabilities in Hex, yes they can "sort of" be built accuratly, but once built, placing them in a new drawing layout is just going to be another PITA.

    Anyway, thanks for the suggestions and help, I spent all weekend trying to get through something that would have taken me 20 minutes in an architectual program, partly because I don't know all the features of this one, and partly because it just doesn't do what I need/want it to do, and I'm still not finished. Some little quirks of Hex's make working in it a test of patiences that is for sure.

  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,657

    Hexagon already has snapping.

  • It also has a lay-on tool which you might find useful. 

    I would suggest you have a look at Danny's 26 short videos - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu-xZNYYv20&list=PL595BF1A1310CC20F

  • cdordonicdordoni Posts: 580

    Dynamic Geometry (Full DG) does allow for some parametric functionality.

    Acsania indicated using lines is a good method to get the basic structure. Sweep could be used to create the beam from the lines.

    Dynamic geometry would allow the section and the profile to be modified or scaled independently.

  • ViallyVially Posts: 316
    edited April 2019
    Ascania said:

    Hexagon already has snapping.

    Where, when, how!!! Point me in the correct direction and I'll read/watch anything I can on it, "snap to" is just so basic I've been trying to figure out how Hex does it since I opened the program,!

     

    It also has a lay-on tool which you might find useful. 

    I would suggest you have a look at Danny's 26 short videos - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu-xZNYYv20&list=PL595BF1A1310CC20F

    Watching now...

     

    cdordoni said:

    Dynamic Geometry (Full DG) does allow for some parametric functionality.

    Acsania indicated using lines is a good method to get the basic structure. Sweep could be used to create the beam from the lines.

    Dynamic geometry would allow the section and the profile to be modified or scaled independently.

    I think I'm going to attempt bulding same base models that have the correct pitch, at the exterior bearing point, I can always extend the rafter by the end face after switching the selection method to object and not world. From what I've seen so far this could work well as long as I know where to end the rafter, a simply plane along the mid line of the structure should work for that. Then mirror and piece together... That should give me the correct shape and a basic "A" to work with.

    Once I get the end bearing point created I can then save that off as 4/12 Truss system, modify changing the pitch and save again as x/12 truss. Very similar to the image attached, I would not do the verticals (they happen on a per span basis, if even needed at all (for renders the attic may not be where anyone is going, the "truss" then just becomes the correct 'shape' for planes to be built on for roofing material.

    Thinking on the same basis for the foundation structure, it is afterall just a box, has a few details here and there, but overall, it is just a box.

    And if I have a basic square that represents any wall studs... I can drop the finished mirror down to the Foundation "box", and BOOM, I have all 4 corners of the house, with exterior points to create the walls from... Can see it becoming an easier proccess.

    Truss 2.png
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    Post edited by Vially on
  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,657
    Vially said:
    Ascania said:

    Hexagon already has snapping.

    Where, when, how!!! Point me in the correct direction and I'll read/watch anything I can on it, "snap to" is just so basic I've been trying to figure out how Hex does it since I opened the program,!

    Bottom of the screen, icons with the magnets. Then start dragging an object (or edge or vertex or face) and press and hold down <SHIFT>

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcyRD4W0RMM

    Gary Miller (Geek At Play Studios) made a very interesting tutorial on the Snap Align tool a while back. 

  • ViallyVially Posts: 316
    Ascania said:
    Vially said:
    Ascania said:

    Hexagon already has snapping.

    Where, when, how!!! Point me in the correct direction and I'll read/watch anything I can on it, "snap to" is just so basic I've been trying to figure out how Hex does it since I opened the program,!

    Bottom of the screen, icons with the magnets. Then start dragging an object (or edge or vertex or face) and press and hold down <SHIFT>

    THANK YOU!

    I have been looking at those and thinking they were for screen grid manipulations...

    But now I see some definate options opening up... that might make things a whole lot easier. For the details on this one and some of the structural.

    Just saw "offset", those two alone can save me hours of work...

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