Hellish-Abaddon WIP Thread

Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
edited November 2013 in Art Studio

A couple things I want to add/fix to the render attached;

1: Cuts!
I'm not gonna post "references" cause they are pretty gory, but a quick google search and you'll see what I mean.
I'm thinking some small cuts, around the eyebrow. My idea, though I haven't had a chance to try, was using a displacement map to "push" in the skin and create the cut. If anyone knows a better way, please let me know.

2: Blood!
Again, haven't had a chance to try it out, but I was thinking of painting it on the texture and then painting it on a spec map to get that "wet, shiny" look.

3: Fixing whatever is going on with his waist. The shorts, is there no way to "straighten" the waistline?

I'm gonna go try some of my ideas, but if it won't work and I'm just wasting time, please let me know :)

I also just downloaded Sculptris (only played with it once) maybe that is the way to go when it comes to cuts?

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Comments

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 6,609
    edited November 2013

    2: Blood!
    Again, haven't had a chance to try it out, but I was thinking of painting it on the texture and then painting it on a spec map to get that "wet, shiny" look.

    That will work (I've done it) but a more flexible option would be to paint the blood pattern on a blank of the texture and spec maps, then use either the Material Room in Poser or LIE in D|S to overlay the two sets of images. It's more flexible in that it lets you easily re-use the blood pattern on other figures. (This is how Gore-Dom works, using LIE in D|S, although that uses texture and displacement instead of texture and specular.)
    Post edited by SpottedKitty on
  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    The LIE can hold any image layer, so Blood, spec and Displacement and bump all doable as a overlay.

  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited November 2013

    I've managed to "cut" the skin and it actually looks a lot better than I expected!
    Just a small problem. If you look at the two pics below, you'll see that the one with the cut displaces more than just the cut :(
    The biggest problems being the lips and the seam being pushed out.
    My "cut" displacement is saved on a transparent background as a png. which I'm sure is a problem lol
    Is there a "neutral" grey for displacement maps? (A colour that doesn't inflate or deflate)

    Thanks to both of you up there for the info, I'm gonna go try to make him bleed now while I wait for someone to chime in on my displacement issues:)

    Edit: How awesome did the gloves come out!! lol

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  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 6,609
    edited December 1969

    You haven't said if you're using Poser or D|S — they do this stuff differently. Poser uses "zero" as pure black, "highest" as pure white; D|S uses "lowest" as pure black, "zero" as mid grey, and "highest" as pure white. Exactly what "lowest" and "highest" are, depends on the bump or displacement value you set.

    Note that "mid grey" must be precisely that — greyscale 127 or RGB 127,127,127. And any flecking or stippling from overdone jpg compression will create a bumpy surface: make sure every single pixel you want at zero uses exactly that "zero" value.

  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    You haven't said if you're using Poser or D|S — they do this stuff differently. Poser uses "zero" as pure black, "highest" as pure white; D|S uses "lowest" as pure black, "zero" as mid grey, and "highest" as pure white. Exactly what "lowest" and "highest" are, depends on the bump or displacement value you set.

    Note that "mid grey" must be precisely that — greyscale 127 or RGB 127,127,127. And any flecking or stippling from overdone jpg compression will create a bumpy surface: make sure every single pixel you want at zero uses exactly that "zero" value.

    Yeah, sorry about that lol I'm using DS 4.6. I did figure out the "neutral" colour by looking at a different displacement map. (Probably should've did that first lol)

    Here's the latest cut with some blood painted on to the texture. I'm pretty happy with how it's coming along.

    Now another problem :(
    Spec maps. Even though I've had DS 4.6 for some time, this is the first time I'm actually using "gen" textures (crazy, right?)
    I usually use V4/M4 maps so now I'm totally confused by the double spec maps lol
    I've tried using LIE to layer the blood onto the spec map, but I have to admit, I have no idea what I'm doing lol I've never messed with LIE and never tried to play with spec maps. How exactly would I go about giving the blood a wet look?

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  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    As you panted the blood on the Diffuse texture you would paint the Spec for the blood on the Spec map at the same place. The SAME Spec map loads twice is all your seeing. If the texture Set has two Spec maps use the Laying feature in most 2D art programs to see your Diffuse behind the Spec map as you work and Edit them both to have the same type edits. Heck layering is best for just one Spec map also. Then delete the Bottom layer and only save your New Spec or Spec's maps out.

  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Looks like a lack of sleep and trying to pay attention to very minor differences don't go together too well lol
    I've finally figured out the Spec map (sortof) thanks to Jaderail and taking a quick look at how Smay did his Zombie (Again, probably should have checked that first lol)
    I've managed to create a displacement map that not only creates the cut, but also pushes out the blood! And thanks to SpottedKitty suggestion of adding them via LIE, I now have the freedom to move the cut and use them on any character very easily!

    Here's a shot of what it currently looks like. I should say, that this is just for testing and in no way final. The blood under the eyes looks good, but the blood on the nose needs some more texture work.
    Anyway, thanks to both you again for the help. I'll post more shots when more progress is done :)

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  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 6,609
    edited December 1969

    Glad I could help. And the pic's looking good, I think you're on the way to having it come out the way it looks between your ears. ;-)

  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited November 2013

    Glad I could help. And the pic's looking good, I think you're on the way to having it come out the way it looks between your ears. ;-)

    I'd be offended...if it wasn't true lol

    Anyhow, moved away from the blood and cuts and into the bruising and welts!

    Two images, two different "beatings" lol (One on the body, one on the inner thigh)
    I like them both, but the end project is to be a fight scene (think UFC) so they need to look "fresh"

    Any input is welcome :)

    Edit: Also, since this is kinda turning into my WIP thread, any way to change the thread title?

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  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 6,609
    edited December 1969

    Edit: Also, since this is kinda turning into my WIP thread, any way to change the thread title?

    No problem if you're the original poster (which you are). Just edit the first post and change the title, it should show up in an editable text box.
  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Good work. and I'm happy to have nudged you in the direction you could use. Waiting on more WIP's.

  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited November 2013

    No problem if you're the original poster (which you are). Just edit the first post and change the title, it should show up in an editable text box.

    Thanks again :)

    Good work. and I'm happy to have nudged you in the direction you could use. Waiting on more WIP's.

    Ask and you shall receive ;)

    I've been looking through some (pretty gory) pics because something didn't look right when it came to the cuts and then it hit me! (pun intended) Swelling!
    Been working on the displacement to get some swelling around the cuts, but it's not ready to post yet so here is where I'm at right now.

    Added more of a flow and moved the cut to the bridge of the nose. Still not perfect, but slowly getting there.
    I also removed the "stains" from the previous texture and added a real flow from his nose, which looks much better imo

    Also, a closer shot of the bruising on the left inner thigh and right calf (sorry for the crotch shot lol)
    I'm not too worried about the bruising though, since it's very unlikely that I will be rendering them close enough to notice anything.

    And ofcourse, I used the same method for the bruising that I did with the cuts and blood, LIE, so I can freely move them around.

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  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited November 2013

    Swelling Update

    After a lot of trial and error, I've finally managed to swell the eye area to where it looks a bit more real. The colour still needs a bit more work, but the swelling under and around the eye looks really good, imo anyway :)

    I ran into some problems with the swelling of the cut that was a bit of a pain to work around.
    Basically, the disp for the cut is suppose to push the skin in, the blood disp is suppose to push the blood out and the swelling disp is suppose to inflate the skin.
    Can you guess the problem? lol
    Yup, the swelling disp was pushing everything out!
    To get around this, for anyone wondering, I had to make the cut disp a darker shade to compensate for the swelling disp and I needed to make sure that the blood disp was a slightly lighter shade than the swelling disp or it just looked like the blood was "cutting" into the skin, which is a lesson learned for anytime I need to do something with Freddy Kruger lol

    I also added another stream of blood to the nose so that it has a bit of a natural flow around the nostril.
    (That gash on the bridge of the nose needs to be a bit thinner)

    Anyhow, here's the newest render. Best to full view and compare with the last head shot to see the swelling difference a bit clearer.

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  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Your work is looking good. Might I ask what the final product is going to be used for? A Render series or Comic maybe?

  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited November 2013

    Jaderail said:
    Your work is looking good. Might I ask what the final product is going to be used for? A Render series or Comic maybe?

    A little bit of both, kind of lol
    Multiple renders, currently thinking somewhere between 5-10.
    Poses are mostly finished, all done by me, hand dialed from zero (Very proud of them, I'll post a preview soon ;))
    Shorts, skin, gloves, leg wraps are all heavily modified (textures, bump, disp, spec, even the model) by me to get the look I want.
    The cage is going to be the one posted on my ShareCG page, with new textures
    And probably a lot more that I'm forgetting lol

    It's not going to be anything for sale (maybe a freebie of the displacements for use with LIE, maybe even some poses)
    I plan on releasing the final project all at once, as one file, instead of 10 separate renders. (It's a secret as to how ;))
    It will be posted on DA with a link posted at various other sites, including here. (Mostly cause only DA can handle the file type)

    The point of the project is to tell a story without any text, mostly to develop my skill with Daz and for fun :)

    Though, the entire project is hanging on the hope that I can figure out how to morph the face to look like the fighter is being hit. If you look at some HD pics on google of some fights, you'll see that there is A LOT of movement in the face when they get hit. I'm not at that point yet, but if anyone can chime in with suggestions that would be great.

    Also, if you're an MMA fan, the shorts and stance are a dead give away as to where the inspiration comes from ;)

    Post edited by Hellish-Abaddon on
  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I know the effect your after. And I envy your work ethic. I seem to wander off from my projects for months at a time. I'm on DA as well so I'll check your stuff out there. Here is a link to my almost stalled Primitives project.

  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    I know the effect your after. And I envy your work ethic. I seem to wander off from my projects for months at a time. I'm on DA as well so I'll check your stuff out there. Here is a link to my almost stalled Primitives project.

    If by "work ethic" you mean, start a couple of highly ambitious projects and try to do them both at once, then yeah, I got that lol
    Somehow, it seems to work for me. Example, here's a link to the latest in my Lost Innocence project.
    The techniques I learned here for cuts, blood and all that will certainly enhance that image, which is not entirely "final"

    What's going on with Primitives? Seems like a fun project full of potential!
    I also read inspiration entry on your profile and I must say, it's incredible!
    If we lost technology, I'd be one of the first to starve lol

    PS - I'm watching you ;)

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    The favor has just been returned. I'm in a Slump and just need a break. Doing stuff just for fun right now. Like checking Render threads....

  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    The favor has just been returned. I'm in a Slump and just need a break. Doing stuff just for fun right now. Like checking Render threads....

    My last 3 have been for the same project so I feel your pain when it comes to needing a break...probably why I decided to start the fight project. Though, those last 3 have become my most popular images so the motivation is still there ;)

    Don't wanna ruin your fun so here you go lol
    2 renders for you :)

    The fighter on the left has his final shape. Textures are still undecided, though Ibrahim seems to be a nice fit. No idea what's going on with the seams though.
    Fighter on the right is far from final. Just using him as my guinea pig, I do like his slimmer look though...

    All the poses, like the one below, are saved as "start" poses that will be tweaked to deal with the different height and shape of both fighters.

    I plan on adding some motion blur and some blood/sweat flying through the air. Whether it all works out or not...

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  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'm going to enjoy watching this come together. Well done. The seam worries me. I'll hunt down some info if I can find any. Odd it's only the Face Scalp area joins.

  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    I'm going to enjoy watching this come together. Well done. The seam worries me. I'll hunt down some info if I can find any. Odd it's only the Face Scalp area joins.

    That seam has been bugging me for the last hour lol I even checked to see if I had messed with it in the past and nope, that's just how it is.
    I rather like the texture so I'll see if I can figure it out tomorrow after work, if not, guess I'll have to find another texture :(

  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Update on the seam

    Good news is that there is nothing wrong with the Ibrahim texture!
    Bad news is the seam is showing up in ALL textures!!

    I've checked to make sure that the right UV sets are being used (in the renders below, David5) and they are the right sets.
    I tried playing with the head shape to see if that had anything to do with it and that didn't work.

    Besides creating a new character, which I don't want to do, I'm out of ideas...
    Any help would be greatly appreciated

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  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 6,609
    edited December 1969

    Hmm... have you looked into your Render Settings and checked the Shading Rate value? I think that's the one that occasionally causes this seam problem — it gets reported now and then, and turning the Shading Rate (I think) down to 0.5 or 0.2 is one of the possible fixes.

  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hmm... have you looked into your Render Settings and checked the Shading Rate value? I think that's the one that occasionally causes this seam problem — it gets reported now and then, and turning the Shading Rate (I think) down to 0.5 or 0.2 is one of the possible fixes.

    Just did a quick render with shading rate at 0.2 and it's still there.
    As Jaderail said, it only affects the Face and head joins.
    Looking at the previous page, it's happening on the other guy too (which I just noticed lol)

    Here's a render of Ibrahim loaded with nothing done to him! All I did was load him, no lighting or anything.
    Same with M5, but it's a lot less noticeable??
    I can also see the seam very clearly in my viewport.
    It's driving me nuts!

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  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited November 2013

    Super duper, awesome, fast update

    Oddly, setting the shading rate ALL the way down seams (get it?) to have fixed it!
    It's just really weird because I've never had this problem before and my shading rate has never changed.
    Anyway, isn't this going to slow my render times like crazy?

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  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 6,609
    edited November 2013

    Yes, the Shading Rate is one of the "volume control" settings for render quality — the out-of-the-box default is OK for test renders, but it really needs to come down to about 0.2 (plus-or-minus a bit) for anything you want to consider final. And the lower that value, the longer the render as there's a lot more to calculate. Getting things right is pretty much a case of duelling settings, though, you must balance various different quality settings against how long you're prepared to wait for your finished render.

    Also, note there is no One True Quality Setting, what works in one scene might need tweaking, poking, and possibly hitting with a stick to work just as well in another scene.

    Post edited by SpottedKitty on
  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited November 2013

    Update
    Fighters are pretty much done, though looking at white shorts' eyes, I might have to change that.

    I also decided to go against using my cage. Mostly because I've done the "UFC" type scene before and adding a couple thousand fans in the background never goes the way I hope.

    So, I decided that for the project I would model a new set, which may end up being a freebie once the project is done.
    I was thinking a smaller, gritty environment, but still keeping it somewhat "professional" Sort of a middle ground between Fight Club and UFC. The image is already in my head, I just gotta get it done lol

    But it's been a long day and I only had time to get the fighters (they seriously need names) "finalized"
    Hopefully, tomorrow I'll start on the new set and post some shots ;)

    And thanks SpottedKitty for the seam fix and the info :)

    Edit: Fighter #2 should not have leg wraps lol
    Again, it's been a long day...

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  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Fight Set Update

    Got a chance to start working on the fight set today. Far from a highly detailed model, but I think it's a good start.
    The colour scheme and textures are still WIP, just trying to setup the scene right now.
    The "open" side of the model will obviously not be seen in final shots.

    I liked the idea of the table and chairs, but it seems like SoulessEmpathys Bar benches fill out the "upstairs" a lot better. (I'm plan on removing the lamps)

    The not-so-finished render (stopped at almost 2hours) was done with shading rate down to .20, which gave me a very nice reflection on the glass and actually showed the chain link, which is from one of Stonemason's sets and will more than likely be replaced, though I'll probably still use his chain link mats.

    I'm still not too sure about the "fight area" I was thinking of going with the octagon shape and maybe raising the platform a bit.

    The stairs are also a mess, maybe if I add some shaders or texture it might look better, but I'm thinking of removing it all together and maybe adding something else in it's place.

    Anyway, I know it looks a little boring, but try to imagine figures watching from the upstairs in a more "lively" scene lol

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  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 6,609
    edited December 1969

    I'd say leave the stairs in, they look OK, although maybe a continuation of the handrail bending down to follow the stairs wouldn't go amiss.

    Might need a tweak in the glass material, the reflection on the table side seems brighter than the actual red carpeting and stairwell area, or could your lighting setup be throwing more light in that direction than in the others?

  • Hellish-AbaddonHellish-Abaddon Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'd say leave the stairs in, they look OK, although maybe a continuation of the handrail bending down to follow the stairs wouldn't go amiss.

    Might need a tweak in the glass material, the reflection on the table side seems brighter than the actual red carpeting and stairwell area, or could your lighting setup be throwing more light in that direction than in the others?

    The materials are all "placeholders" I haven't tweaked anything because I just wanted to see it "setup"
    Most likely, every texture in the render will get replaced or tweaked.
    And yes, the lighting was set to intentionally light up everything. It's just UE2 and a couple distant lights, but even that will get replaced with better lighting.
    I do like your idea for continuing the rail down the stairs, I don't know why I didn't think of that, they seem kinda dangerous right now lol

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