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G8M PJ comparison

frankrblowfrankrblow Posts: 2,052
edited March 2019 in The Commons

Comparing the newer https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-chill-pajamas-for-genesis-8-males- with https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-pjs-for-genesis-8-males 

The dForce Chill comes off badly when I compared them, with the Chill shirt exploding. And, when loading, the Chill PJs top and bottom need to be manually fitted to the G8M, which is not what I expect with newer clothes sold here.

The older PJs by Nikisatez performed without a glitch using exactly the same character setup as the Chill PJs.

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Post edited by frankrblow on

Comments

  • QuasarQuasar Posts: 681

    That's a strange fit on the first ones :p 

    How about these? Do you have them? https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-pajamas-for-genesis-8-males

  • zombietaggerungzombietaggerung Posts: 3,868

    I'm honestly not surprised.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    For what it’s worth own both and don’t use either, I tend to use this https://www.daz3d.com/relaxed-night-outfit-for-genesis-3-male-s

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,356

    he had a rough night cheeky

  • frankrblowfrankrblow Posts: 2,052
    edited March 2019
    Quasar said:

    That's a strange fit on the first ones :p 

    How about these? Do you have them? https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-pajamas-for-genesis-8-males

    I do have them, but forgot about them blush  Hmm, did a quick test using the same G8M character and pose, and the clothes fit-to okay, but exploded at the end of simulation and freezing Studio. There must be a spot where the cloth intersects with the character or itself, which indicates that https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-pjs-for-genesis-8-males is much more forgiving.

    Serene Night, I don't have the Relaxed Night Outfit yet.

    EDIT: The https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-pajamas-for-genesis-8-males caused Studio 4.10 to freeze, and when I shut Studio down then restarted, Studio crashed as soon as I tried to load anything. So I opened Studio 4.11 Beta instead, loaded my test character and made sure there was clearance all around. I added the pajamas aand ran a simulation and again the top and bottom exploded, but not as badly as the first test in DS 4.10. Here's hoping Studio doesnt crash again.

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    Post edited by frankrblow on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    I'm testig the Chill Pajamas now. I had G8M selected when I loaded the Wearable preset, and both top and bottom were fit-to the figure automatically. (Did you have G8M selected when you loaded the set? That might be the difference.)

    I found the pose you used so I applied that to my G8M and without changing any settings, I ran the simulation. At the end, it exploded for me as well. But I can tell you exactly why they explode. The default Simulation Settings start the simulation with the figure in the memorized pose. which for most us means the A-Pose when working with G8. There is a period of initialization that takes place in that pose, then the figure moves into the applied pose. At the very end, both hands move through the body to reach the position at the hips. While the hands are intersecting the body, they are also intesecting the mesh of the pajamas. And that's causing the explosion.

    When I turned "Start Bones From Memorized Pose to Off, running the simulation did not explode. His hands are intersecting the shirt, but it still didn't explode.

    I then changed the settings to use the Timeline, 31 frames, pose at frame 15. I modified the pose in several places to guide the hands to the hips without intersecting the body. When the simulation was finished, I used a bit of the Loosen Hips morph to expand the bottom of the shirt just enough to eliminate poke through.

    Give me a oouple of minutes, and I'll add an image.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    Here's my Chill Pajamas render, on base G8M.

    G8M Simulated With Timeline, by L'Adair

    And here's a screenshot of my Simulation Settings

    Chill-pajama-settings

  • frankrblowfrankrblow Posts: 2,052

    Please don't get me wrong, L'Adair, I'm not saying that the Chill PJs don't work, just that the older Nikisatez PJ's performed better. And the Relaxed Night PJs did badly.

    Unlike your simulation, I started mine from the memorized pose, with the only difference in the first three tests being the clothes.

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 12,617
    edited March 2019

    Mine sim'd ok.

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    Post edited by Cris Palomino on
  • frankrblowfrankrblow Posts: 2,052

    Indeed Chris, apart from minor pokethrough.

    There are several products in the store, showing varying degrees of compatability with dForce, and I'm sure people on a tight budget would like to know what works best. In fact, I myself would like to know which vendors put the most effort and skill into their products.

    So here's my personal opinion: the more comparisons we see the better for the customers and the better for the vendors who cater to our needs and wishes because they deserve our money.

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 12,617

    Tried a more complex pose; for me, it's performing well.

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  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 3,037

    Simulates nicely for me without even the hint of an explosion.

     

    So nothing to say against comparing stuff... but one might better be careful not to put a user error down as a product's flaw devil

  • LyonessLyoness Posts: 1,639

    This is going to come off as a bit unfriendly,... but maybe it's you.
    different setups sim differently.

  • frankrblowfrankrblow Posts: 2,052

    Nothing wrong with plain speaking, and I see the points being made.

    User error is certainly as plausable as any other explanation, which is why I used the same setup for each of the first three tests. I will try different poses and shapes (character morphs), and see what happens.

    And I'm happy to see more of other peoples' simulations and comments.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    edited March 2019
    dragonfly_2004 said:

    Please don't get me wrong, L'Adair, I'm not saying that the Chill PJs don't work, just that the older Nikisatez PJ's performed better. And the Relaxed Night PJs did badly.

    Unlike your simulation, I started mine from the memorized pose, with the only difference in the first three tests being the clothes.

    I tested that way, too, before I went to the timeline. And I experienced the same thing. (I tried it with Self-Collide set to Off in the material zones, too. Boy was that a great explosion!) I don't have Nikisatez PJ's, so I wasn't able to compare. The pose you chose really pushes the product, and does show that not all "dForce Compliant" items are "equal."

    The main reason for showing the difference using the Timeline was to show it's only the "default all the way" that causes the issue. And it's worth noting, the explosion using only default settings was dependent on the pose. As long as the pose doesn't drag parts of one object through another, the pajamas perform fine.

    ETA: I responded without reading the posts under your response. Sorry if I come off as beating a dead horse. It's unintentional.
    angel

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    edited March 2019

    By the way, to any who are interested in these jammies, there are a lot of morphs that help with poke through after the sim. You'll find them in the Parameters tab under Actor->Morphs. In my example above, I was able to dial a morph or two and remove all the poke through, like you see in Cris's first attached image. There are three dials for wrinkles in the pants that are at 100% by default. Maybe dialing those down would have also removed the poke through. I didn't notice those last night. I'll have to give it a try…

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • frankrblowfrankrblow Posts: 2,052
    L'Adair said:
    dragonfly_2004 said:

    Please don't get me wrong, L'Adair, I'm not saying that the Chill PJs don't work, just that the older Nikisatez PJ's performed better. And the Relaxed Night PJs did badly.

    Unlike your simulation, I started mine from the memorized pose, with the only difference in the first three tests being the clothes.

    I tested that way, too, before I went to the timeline. And I experienced the same thing. (I tried it with Self-Collide set to Off in the material zones, too. Boy was that a great explosion!) I don't have Nikisatez PJ's, so I wasn't able to compare. The pose you chose really pushes the product, and does show that not all "dForce Compliant" items are "equal."

    The main reason for showing the difference using the Timeline was to show it's only the "default all the way" that causes the issue. And it's worth noting, the explosion using only default settings was dependent on the pose. As long as the pose doesn't drag parts of one object through another, the pajamas perform fine.

    ETA: I responded without reading the posts under your response. Sorry if I come off as beating a dead horse. It's unintentional.
    angel

    Thanks, L'Adair, you make my point, I think, better than I did. I've put this aside for the moment, while I struggle with another product! laugh

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 3,037
    L'Adair said:
    ETA: I responded without reading the posts under your response. Sorry if I come off as beating a dead horse. It's unintentional.

    Don't worry.. dead horses usually don't mind being beaten. devil

     

    And yes, usually it's poses and the way the bodyparts move to reach the final pose that cause the most explosions on dForceable clothes. Especially, as the software often takes interesting ways for limbs to go from one position to the other.

    One can just hope to see quantum computers becoming the standart, so we can do such simulations in real time and not with a timeline wink

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