New HD creature morphs - will they work correctly in Carrara?

swordvisionsswordvisions Posts: 124
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

Just wondering if the HD creature morph for GF2 will work correctly in Carrara 8.5. If anyone buys left me know how they work in carrara

Comments

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 444
    edited December 1969

    same here... I've been good for a while, but that one is in my cart. Very tempting...

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,158
    edited December 1969

    I seem to recall that someone did mention that they wouldn't work at the present moment, but at my age my memory is not guaranteed. lol

  • swordvisionsswordvisions Posts: 124
    edited October 2013

    If you are right then it is disappointing but not a big surprise. Someone mentioned that geografting is not working completely in Carrara, yet. I would think that Carrara would have the capability to handle that level of subdivisions. I wonder if you can do it manually?

    Once it has the correct discount, at least I think it should have another 20% off today. I might buy it and experiment. I can always return it if I cannot get it too work, or since it is only a few dollars more, I might keep it in hopes that C9 fixes it.

    Post edited by swordvisions on
  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    Just wondering if the HD creature morph for GF2 will work correctly in Carrara 8.5. If anyone buys left me know how they work in carrara

    yes they work - don't know about tail and other ( don't have it )

  • swordvisionsswordvisions Posts: 124
    edited December 1969

    Thanks, definitely need to buy and try then

  • ncampncamp Posts: 345
    edited December 1969

    I've played with them some this morning. The standard creature morphs seem to work, but I cannot see any difference between the standard morphs and the HD versions.

    There is a note in the readme file:
    To Use the High Definition Morphs in Poser with the DSON Importer for Poser, it is necessary to manually turn off limits on the “Mesh Resolution>SubDivision Level” parameter of Genesis 2 Female (located in the Body) and turn it to 3 (three).

    Not sure how to accomplish that in Carrara.

    ncamp

  • ncampncamp Posts: 345
    edited December 1969

    Here is a studio and Carrara example. Note, I'm not saying there is not a way to make them work, but I don't know how to yet.

    On the left is Normal CC for GF2 and the right is CC HD, First render is Studio, Second is Carrara. As you can see the HD is lost. (By the way, I exported the studio scene and imported into Carrara. I got the same results using natively.

    ncamp

    Carrara_HD_Diff.png
    640 x 480 - 136K
    Studio_HD_Diff.png
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  • swordvisionsswordvisions Posts: 124
    edited December 1969

    Can't you select the whole model and change the subdivison in the modeling room. I think Carrara max is 5 level. I don't know if would work. I have not bought it yet

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,796
    edited December 1969

    ncamp said:
    I've played with them some this morning. The standard creature morphs seem to work, but I cannot see any difference between the standard morphs and the HD versions.

    There is a note in the readme file:
    To Use the High Definition Morphs in Poser with the DSON Importer for Poser, it is necessary to manually turn off limits on the “Mesh Resolution>SubDivision Level” parameter of Genesis 2 Female (located in the Body) and turn it to 3 (three).

    Not sure how to accomplish that in Carrara.

    ncamp

    In Carrara, we can change the SubD level by turning the "Smoothing" modifier, under 'Actor' in the General tab.
    However, I have been told that, in order to use the new HD Morphs, you need the latest beta of DAZ Studio, and that the feature is not yet available in Carrara.

    But if you already have HD Morphs, and want to try them in Carrara, I suggest to turn the smoothing up to 3 (render level requires a render to see it, model level to see in workspace, but will likely bog down Carrara to a crawl)

    We can, however, use the Basics of Loading HD Morphs tutorial to create HD Morphs in Carrara.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,651
    edited October 2013

    wireframe render and the hair room tells a story

    Doc9.png
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    Doc8.png
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    Untitled.jpg
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    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,796
    edited December 1969

    The new HD Morph feature is incredible - and another DAZ 3D first for this type of functionality. Here are some of my thoughts on it:

    HD Morphs (again - these are my thoughts and might not be 100% accurate) are very similar to using a high resolution displacement with the exception being that you can use the easy functionality of turning dials to change the level of effect - by dialing up and down HD Morphs. Displacement maps may have level tweak adjustments possible, but this is vastly above and beyond all of that.

    As artists, we are seeing the dawn of a whole new level of being able to utilize Carrara/DAZ Studio Pro as an animation/modeling suite to get multitudes of subtleties and not-so-subtle details onto the Genesis 2 mesh. I'm imagining all sorts of ways that this will be beneficial beyond the norm. Now all we need is to make sure that Carrara inherits this amazing new feature - and I can bet that it's already in the works. But I have heard no official word on the matter.

    The Creature Creator being the beginning of seeing this is an excellent way to start. Humans can get by pretty nicely with the smoooooth skin that we've grown accustom to working with. But as we start to see this go beyond, we'll begin to see more minute details available in our people that we've only hoped for in a displacement. Imaging sculpting out facial wrinkle and the like... yeah!

    The power of SubD might not be that new to our palettes as we think about it - but it certainly is not something that has been around throughout the ages. What SubD does for us, is it allows for lower numbers of polygon to appear as if it is vastly higher in number. Quick example: A single polygon with a smoothing of 1 takes on the appearance of 4. Smoothing of 2 turns each of those 4 into four - so, in this example, 16, and so on. In Carrara it's called "Smoothing" which, very much, describes what's going on. Lower polygon counts create unnatural looking affects - especially where that are forming a curve. Smoothing interpolates what is happening between the vertices and smooths the difference. In Carrara's modeler, we further have the opportunity to determine which edges are smooth and which are creased - which helps, when you're looking for tighter changes at particular edges. Working with really high polygon counts makes it possible to really fine tune details and further define what we need the mesh to eventually take shape as. HD Morphs allow for much, Much higher resolution. During the modeling phase, we actually get the chance to work with the true amount of polygons that the SubD will simulate in the end, on the lower resolution mesh, when the dial is cranked to 3, or whatever you design the morph at. This allows us to actually tell the software what it will create when smoothing is turned up - rather than modeling at lower polygons and letting the software do the work.

    That being said, we may still have use for bump and/or displacement or normal maps. Imagine how detailed we can get if we can now reserve those for nothing more than skin texture. Veins, cuts, and other fine details actually being the result of a High Definition Morph!

  • ncampncamp Posts: 345
    edited December 1969

    ncamp said:
    I've played with them some this morning. The standard creature morphs seem to work, but I cannot see any difference between the standard morphs and the HD versions.

    There is a note in the readme file:
    To Use the High Definition Morphs in Poser with the DSON Importer for Poser, it is necessary to manually turn off limits on the “Mesh Resolution>SubDivision Level” parameter of Genesis 2 Female (located in the Body) and turn it to 3 (three).

    Not sure how to accomplish that in Carrara.

    ncamp

    In Carrara, we can change the SubD level by turning the "Smoothing" modifier, under 'Actor' in the General tab.
    However, I have been told that, in order to use the new HD Morphs, you need the latest beta of DAZ Studio, and that the feature is not yet available in Carrara.

    But if you already have HD Morphs, and want to try them in Carrara, I suggest to turn the smoothing up to 3 (render level requires a render to see it, model level to see in workspace, but will likely bog down Carrara to a crawl)

    We can, however, use the Basics of Loading HD Morphs tutorial to create HD Morphs in Carrara.

    Don't try five. Locked up the whole computer. Had to power off to get out.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,796
    edited December 1969

    wireframe render and the hair room tells a story
    Awesome example! What was smoothing set at for this?
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,796
    edited December 1969

    ncamp said:

    Don't try five. Locked up the whole computer. Had to power off to get out.

    Some folks might even get this at 4. Be careful to save valuable stuff before changing smoothing! ;)

    HD Morphs in the Creature Creator only call for 3.

    4 and higher might become more beneficial in time - and are also useful in our own models that we know have few enough polygons where our precious machines can handle. I guess it takes more than 4GB RAM for SubD=3 in DS Pro.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,796
    edited December 1969

    BTW,
    That looks awesome, Wendy!

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,651
    edited December 1969

    that was a .duf import
    I cannot get G2 F to work properly loaded from Carrara I am afraid, need to fit clothes and do morphs in DS4.6
    can animate and use mimic in carrara

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,796
    edited December 1969

    Still...
    Select "Actor" and look at the render level of smoothing. Does it say 2 or 3?

    Hmmm... I have no troubles with Gen2F in Carrara by herself, but fit-to sure isn't right anymore. I'll have to try the DUF method, myself!

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 444
    edited December 1969

    The smoothing levels in Carrara definitely have some effect. Here are some test renders. At 5 the memory usage went up to 5GB and it is *slow* rendering even these small images without particular quality. The first is w/o the HD dials, then it is smoothing of 3 and 4

    SaveMeFromPhotoshopHell-HDat4.jpg
    640 x 480 - 49K
    SaveMeFromPhotoshopHell-HDat3.jpg
    640 x 480 - 49K
    SaveMeFromPhotoshopHell-noHD.jpg
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  • StezzaKararaStezzaKarara Posts: 5,002
    edited October 2013

    Looks like they won't work till C9 comes out.. maybe :-(

    from the Commons thread...

    DAZ_jared said:
    Cbird said:

    Thank you for the answer Jared. So compatibility with outside software, but DAZ's own. Hmmm.

    The HD morphs don't work in the current version of Carrara 8.5

    Post edited by StezzaKarara on
  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 444
    edited December 1969

    perhaps "don't work properly" is more accurate as they do appear to have some effect as can be seen from the images I posted. The no HD morphs applied has somewhat less detail and increasing the smoothing did bring out some additional features.

  • ncampncamp Posts: 345
    edited December 1969

    I've played with several levels of smoothing, and I keep getting less HD details as the smoothing increases. Nothing I can do gets the HD to what studio does. I've tried smoothing under the actor tab. I've gone into the modeling room and increased the smoothing. The features get more smooth, but the detail is not showing.

    ncamp

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,796
    edited December 1969

    Right. It's true. HD Morphs will have no effect in Carrara. At least, not supported ones.

    For now we can make 'em, but we cannot use them... in Carrara, that is.
    I've just reported in the modeling thread about displacement painting. Perhaps this would be a great opportunity to create displacement maps for Carrara users. A Carrara edition shader could potentially have immense power on these shapes. Lace 'em down with fur and...

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 444
    edited December 1969

    this is a mixed-morph setting render so it isn't as clear as it could be I suppose. This one is only at three levels of smoothing and is identical to the others except I raised the various HD Detail morph settings from 1 to 2. Right or wrong, the HD morphs definitely have effect...

    SaveMeFromPhotoshopHell-doubleHDat3.jpg
    640 x 480 - 51K
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,796
    edited December 1969

    Not sure. Try loading the same morphs in DS Pro 64 bit and see.
    From what I was told, the HD Morphs simply won't do their thing in Carrara yet.
    I haven't had time to play yet.

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 444
    edited December 1969

    I never said they worked right, just that they (demonstrably) have effect. Two different things, both different from "don't work at all"

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