Why are fantasy characters always caucasian?
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The pas will market what pays the bills. This is what we are told time and again by pas unable to afford making mens content.
I doubt it is pas are unwilling to make diverse monsters. It is more likely that those will have less appeal to the current market, which seems to gravitate towards Caucasian female figures.
the only way to change this is to broaden the demographic of the buyers buying at daz store.
Sure, there will always be complaints, but there are also people who appreciate that work is done on this front at all (and buy them, of course). Really appreciate the RawArt line of characters.
It's always like that, no matter what they do.
I don't know somebody who is able to satisfy everybody because nobody knows what everybody is expected.
It shouldn't stop the vendors to keep on being creative.
These consumer feedbacks are clues if you want to try something else which could satisfy a sample of consumers in the future. It doesn't mean your current products are not valuable.
What's stopping anyone from using a non-caucasian skin with monster or fantasy morphs and making their own diverse fantasy creature? Doesn't ANYONE turn dials any more?
In my art, a number of the enemies (demonesses) are Asians and Caucasians, along with one black and one with Indian features that I recently added. What is stopping anyone from making a black or Asian werewolf when the transformed version doesn't reflect their original ethnicity.
There are dark elves in the store, Rawn has made a variety of looks for creatures, we have things like Skin Builder that can help make fantasy textures as well as realistic ones, and there's a boatload of morphs you can use to make your own. Not really sure what the issue is here.
It's same as telling "Why purchasing Store content when you could to do it by yourself ?"
The answer is very simple : Because some people are more talented than us, that's why we pay them to reward their works.
Yeah, that is an definite issue!
I have been an "amatuer folklorist" for half a century or so, and this is a topic dear to my heart. The relatively recent inclusion of various folklore creatures in games, particularly "D&D" type RPGs and collectable card games, means there are a wide range of interpretations of appearances and characteristics, often not based on any actual lore, but "that looks cool". Also, the use of various folklore entities in anime and manga has let to some very interesting (?) interpretations. This is still part of folklore, which is by nature fluid.
Other "folklore" was created out of whole cloth for games and whatnot and it is implied this is classical. Someone asked me a while back if the lore of the Drow Elves was Irish, Scottish, or Scandinavian. But there is no classical Drow Elf lore. It comes from Dungeons and Dragons, probably inspired by the Norse "Svart Alfar" or "Dokkalfar" (which were really more like dark dwarves that mine and work metal, and make magical weapons). Now there are novels with Drow characters (R. M. Salvatore is one author).
I have a Fallen Angel character I am working on for a graphic novel. A friend of mine took me to task because my interpretation was "all wrong". I asked him for the source of his comments, since there is actually little detail about fallen angels in traditional religious works. He said he had read a recent magazine article that laid it all out. But, the article had no references or sources, it was the author's opinion. So, when people fuss about things like this, I now reply "Hey, this is MY (expletive deleted) Universe! Get your own!"
I usually buy these characters with an eye toward changing them to look like I want. I am really happy to see RawArt's new Bastet and Anubis, I have plans for them!
I am seeing a wider variety of folklore entities (not just Norse Gods and Goddesses) appearing in literature and in tv series. Jim Butcher's "The Dresden Files", Neal Gaiman's "American Gods" and Kevin Herne's "The Iron Druid Chronicles" use a wide range of such beings. So I am hopeful that this will increase interest overall. Anyone for characters from the Sumerian Pantheon? : )
Well, that was a lot longer-winded than I intended...feel free to skip ahead to avoid narcolepsy. Rant over. : )
A book I'm reading right now that keeps calling one of the murder suspects 'just an average white guy'. So why not go off the beaten trail and make a 'non-white' average guy? Sigh. Tired right now of the long sharp teeth on new figures. Vamps, now werewolves. Don't want anymore fairies or toons either. Lets share the spotlight. Samsil makes some awesome figures (male and female). Wish they'd commission him to model a really great black guy that can be anything from hard ass with tats and muscles with veins, but also an 'average black guy'. And don't make him an African with tribal gear, body scarring, war paint and other things they associate with them. That's the default and not cool.
Anyway, my 2 cents and a hard pass on this guy.
I meant it as "they got so much negativity that they didn't feel like trying again".
The positive point is nobody will get or spend money for non-Caucasian characters. It's always a good thing to save your money.
"It's same as telling "Why purchasing Store content when you could to do it by yourself ?" The answer is very simple : Because some people are more talented than us, that's why we pay them to reward their works."
Turning dials is something that every Studio user should know how to do, it's the most basic function of customizing figures and is no harder than doing it in a video game. That is totally different from modeling a unique face in Zbrush or texturing in Substance Painter.
" I don't understand why some don't understand a call for more diversity. Diversity exists in real life and some of us would like to see that reflected in the catalogue of core figures."
And that isn't what I'm talking about here, I was talking about people who are asking for diverse fantasy characters when they don't have to wait for DAZ to make them. I am all for diversity too and think we should have more than one base minority character for each ethnicity. Mousso makes all sorts of diverse characters, try taking one of those that isn't Caucasian, use some Thorne or Sickleyield fantasy morphs, and you'll have a decent and different fantasy figure.
I get that people shouldn't be expected to be experts to do hobby level rendering, but like SnowSultan said... dial spinning is pretty easy and one of the vaunted features of Daz Studio.
And yes, people don't want to do work, but I'd challenge you to find another hobby that doesn't involve any effort beyond unboxing yarn or miniatures or trains.
They are great.
When you're making a living, you tend to want to be paid more; I'm everyone understands that.
Buy-outs are what happens after the PA has spent the time making it; if Daz isn't interested then the PA takes all the risk - presuming it actually gets accepted.
I agree we 'want' to see diversity; wanting isn't the same as getting our hand in our digital pocket and parting with cash.
Landon + brow/nose adjustments (from various morph packs) + Darius skin. Killmonger hair
There can be both dial-spinning and more diverse core characters; those ideas are not mutually exclusive. I do a lot of customization myself, which should be evident in my portfolio, so I don't need to "wait for DAZ" to make the characters I want, but that doesn't mean I don't also want to see more diverse core characters being released by DAZ.
I fully appreciate a call for more diversity; I don't get a call for more diversity when it comes to fantasy characters.
Because Daz are trying to keep the base characters as wet clay to build derivatives on, all the fantasy we get out of a Daz base character is usually a couple of fairly basic morphs/geografts that could be applied to any character (and which PAs often give us more choices for much quicker) that's then reinforced by the bundle contents/add-ons. We're unlikely to get more than one vampire of each gender per generation, because once those morphs exist, any character can become one.
I would like more diverse characters, but I'd rather them used as a way to bring out items appropriate to that cultural background, rather than making them generic fantasy characters and thus displacing the possible diversity in add-ons with that generation's "This is our obligatory vampire Pro bundle".
Sure, if you can make an Indian-Asian a Naga, or a Haitian a Voodoo master, absolutely go for it - that can stick with the theming. But making them a werewolf? That actually gives us less diversity, not more, because then that's the theme for their bundle, rather than fashions and styles from around the world. There is some sense to just not mix and matching the folklore and ethnicity.
...
Some fantasy creatures are so ubiquitous that the folklore/ethnicity argument doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think anyone would bat an eyelash if a tv show or movie set in modern times contained a vampire or werewolf who was not Caucasian. As for non-Caucasian creatures, sure, bring with it some diversity but not seeing how vampires/werewolves/zombies/super generic fantasy creatures need to be Caucasian. If not the core figure, then at least maybe one of the figures included in the bundle (as much as I think the figures included in the Landon bundle are superb).
But anyway, I think I've stated all I can, and at this point, I don't think I'm adding anything else to the discussion. It's clear I'm not changing any minds, so that's it from me.
dial spinning is pretty easy and one of the vaunted features of Daz Studio.
This is one of those great arguments/counter arguments that gets tossed about as one side expects the other to accept things they do not.
So, in other words, once Daz released Victoria 8 and Victor 8, they need to never make any other figures because, you know dial-spinning and morphs.
What they want -is for you to settle with GOOD ENOUGH. And shifting a character over shoudl be good enough. How dare you want a fully created product? The nerve!
As they make thread after thread lauding, applauding or debating and hating every figure that's released.
Because THAT seems normal. To have soooo many choices you can thumb your nose at less-than-perfection.
And yes, people don't want to do work, but I'd challenge you to find another hobby that doesn't involve any effort beyond unboxing yarn or miniatures or trains.
Which would be to suggest that YARN only needs to be sold in WHITE and the buyer can dye it themselves because...you know...inks and dyes and to suggest otherwise is being lazy.
I am only questioning why default has to be Caucasian
Vanilla maybe is but our planet is the cosmopolitan flavour and Caucasian is hardly the majority
Asian is
Meh, if Daz had a long history of Daz-style fairies (scantily clad, creepy-cute child-women with wings) being sold as ethnically diverse characters, we'd be hearing about how wrong it was to exoticize women of color like that. And the complainers would probably have a point. Ditto kitsune. Spiderpeople of color*, slenderpeople of color, frankenstein monsters of color, dwarves of color could all be interpreted as dehumanizing. Western style vampires have been aggressively normalized** for so long that it is probably relatively inoffensive to depict them as people of color. Werewolves *may* be about there, especially post-Twilight, although the main wolf character of Native American ancestry is portrayed in the movies by a gentleman with only slightly more Native American ancestry than Johnny Depp. Elves and their sci-fi counterparts (idealized Vulcan-like aliens etc)...probably safe enough if you're going the dignified Tolkienesque route, but beware the exoticizing complaints (see above) if you're going for exagerrated physical proportions and fanservicey promo art.
If you're willing to address any controversy your fantasy art starts, that's up to you, but demanding that a business outfit like Daz start the controversy and take the heat for you, is not reasonable.
*In traditional folklore, Anansi is a shapeshifter who frequently appears as a spider. In traditional art, he seems to be mostly represented by abstract spider designs or spiders with recognizable "faces," less commonly as a human with extra limbs or a spider with clothes. Attempts to portray him as a drider from the D&D verse seem to be a recent development, and I don't know how well or badly that conception would be received by people from cultures where Anansi is actually a thing.
**The first major Western vampire of color is Blacula, who was conceived in the 70s by African American creators as a sympathetic victim of the evil, white Count Dracula.
Griffin: It's like the store selling white, red, and blue yarn, and someone being upset because the store doesn't sell blue and white yarn packaged together.
Zephyr, who was an add-on accompanying the recent Tasha 8 release, is a vampire character with African features. Jiang Shi seems to be an Asian demon (although her features look a bit Caucasian to my eye); I can't remember if she was included as an add-on with one of DAZ's figure releases, or if she came later.
Some PAs have created non-Caucasian figures with monstrous variants. For example, EJ Hiroshi includes a 'vampire' option (material only; no fangs, as far as I can see). EJ Tamako is an interesting one; her Ghost Moriko variant seems to be an effort to create a specifically Asian-looking ghost/demon character.
I think the problem is that DAZ's marketing efforts mostly involve archetypes (heroic fantasy is strongly associated with quasi-medieval European settings, for example, so naturally when you put out Heroic Fantasy Guy with all his accessories, he's soda-cracker white) or stereotypes (anyone with African features comes with hip-hop gear or voodoo trappings, all Asians are Chinese or Japanese and wear karate gis, kimonos or ninja outfits, etc.), or just with the fact that, in the US and Europe, white people are seen as 'the default' (meaning that Heroic Spaceman Spliff with all his accessories is also always shiny white). And I have a nasty suspicion that there may be good commercial reasons for this failure of the imagination: if DAZ were to do something more imaginative, releasing, say, a dark-skinned character with African features alongside a bunch of steampunk clothing, or an Asian heroic fantasy bundle, then a certain number of people would say "That's just wrong. Everyone knows steampunk people are white Victorian British dudes with mutton-chop whiskers. I'm not buying that."
It would be great if DAZ were more adventurous. I'd love to see South and Central Asian, indigenous American or Australian figures (and indigenous American can go far beyond one tiny slice of North America, to include Inuit, South and Central Americans as well), Arabs and North Africans, maybe bundled with historically or culturally-appropriate clothing that goes beyond the stereotypes, or with fantasy/sci-fi/steampunk/whatever outfits of any kind. But I understand why they haven't done so yet, and it may have more to do with us than them.
The saving grace, of course, is that the mix'n'match nature of what my partner refers to as 'your paper dolls' means that there's nothing to stop us putting Darius 8 into a tailcoat, clockwork top-hat and monocle, or dressing Mei-Lin 8 up to ride dragons or whatever. Moreover, some PAs are starting to fill the gaps with figures from a broader range of cultures and ethnicities. So even if the offerings in the form of DAZ's own bundles are disappointing, we don't have to limit ourselves when deciding what to put in our renders. (We might, however, have to live on fifty-cent instant ramen for the rest of our lives to be able to afford all the content we want, but that's another matter).