Reallusion's Character Creator 3 and Carrara

Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 781
edited February 17 in Carrara Discussion

Perhaps this is nothing new to Carrara users who use Reallusion products.

I recently bought Reallusion's Character Creator 3 (CC3) even though I don't have the latest version of Iclone which it is intended for.

Apart from the native figures which come with it, the program allows import of various other figures from DAZ(Genesis 1-8 and generation 4), Smith-Micro and Hivewire (so far).

The figures get re-topologised (EDIT I'm not certain if that's correct) and re-rigged to suit export to Iclone, game engines or other software.  Before export, the figures can undergo lots of morphing and mixing adjustments (I bought a morph & skins add-on pack to greatly expand the choice).  Clothes and hair can be imported; clothes can be weight-painted after fitting to conform to the figure.

I tried a few .FBX exports to Carrara incorporating some of Reallusion's motion files which I have from previous versions of Iclone and the results are quite decent.

There is a disclaimer from me in case anyone is thinking of spending cash on this:  This is all I know and unfortunately I don't have time to test this out exhaustively.  I'm not familiar with the quirks of DAZ's G3 and G8 figures and am not up-to-date with Reallusion's handling of them for lip-sync, eyebrows etc. so I can't help at all there. 

Also, any bought motions (of which there are zillions in many categories) need Reallusion's export licence as opposed to the free ones I've used.  Within my older versions of Iclone, I have the tools to create my own walks and other motions easily and should be able to get them into Carrara for free but I haven't tried doing so.

But here is a short video of the results:

https://youtu.be/rdg7B1bwucM

The figures can be posed in Carrara but several extra bones exist at most joints.  It is necessary to choose the 'wireframe' named bones and not the 'twist' named bones.  (The 'twist' bones can be hidden, which helps make posing easier).  You can see the difference it makes to choose the correct bones in the attached images!

I guess that VWD draping could be applied to clothes and hair but I don't have the Carrara bridge program for that yet.

Regards to all.

Edited to correct possible mis-understanding on my part

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Post edited by Marcus Severus on
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Comments

  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 600

    Hey this looks impressive. I have been checking out Iclone too but so far not convinced enough to spend money because I found it hard to understand exactly which software does what and therefore hard to evaluate and  decide what I should buy - and if its worth it.

    Eventually I discovered you need to spend $100 on a curve editor and more money if you want particles. 3dexchange seems a bit price hefty for importing assets.

    Did you 'export' with  Carrara's FBX or  do you have to use Daz Studio FBX?

    I take it you imported  Daz Characters with Character Creator then animated in your old version of Iclone?  Can you bring in bvh files to CC3 or Iclone ? There seem to be a lot of things that require 3Dexchange  - at extra cost of course. 

    Big attraction would be availability of a large library of animation clips that are easily applied. I dont mind paying reasonable prices because worth it instead of phaffing around trying to make bvh  work. [ eg the Carnegie Melon stuff ]

    You say "figures can be posed in Carrara but several extra bones exist at most joints" Is this a problem for tweeking the animation in Carrara?

    Have you tyried any lipsync ?

    Look forward to following your experience with Iclone/CC3 then soon as think its worth it  I'll get the trial and buy it if all good.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,616

    Marcus, thank you for reporting your results.  I don't have iClone, but am always impressed with the results I see from Wendy and others.  Always more to acquire and learn.

  • I only have iClone 6 pipeline bundle but often import Character creator figures into Carrara with what motions I can use.

    What I do do is make each an animation group and save the motions as NLA clips and swap them between characters.

    I often do the heads with any motion plus movement as separate NLA clips.

     

  • Thanks, Diomede, for taking a look and commenting.

    Wendy, you get far more done with Carrara and Iclone, etc. than I know how to do.  So I'm late to your party!  As with anything I bought from Reallusion, I swithered for a while but don't regret getting CC3.

    When I get a chance, I'll try to learn about NLA in Carrara and see if I can take this further.

    My hardware isn't up to Iclone 7 standards and to be honest, I wasn't greatly impressed somehow with Iclone 6, which I bought (and the need to get 3dXchange 6 to go along with it).  Iclone 6 crashed a lot then but something has been updated and I like it now in the limited way I can use it (I have bought only a few assets).

    Before seeing both your posts I drafted a lengthy reply to 0oseven, which follows.

  • Thanks for taking a look, 0oseven.

    I need to be out soon but will try to get some info to you for now.

    Reallusion's offerings are confusing and this is made a little worse by the 'rolling out' of the software developments gradually.  Features are advertised in advance and it is sometimes uncertain for a buyer
    to know what has been implemented and what is still on the way.

    Most 3d programs permit import of .fbx and .obj files, etc.  But Reallusion's 3d animation program, Iclone, needs the additional 3dXchange program for this.  3dXchange translates imported objects into Iclone-format entities (called iAvatars, iProps, iMotions and so on).  To export most of these from Iclone, the expensive 3dXchange Pipeline is required and most assets also need an export licence.  The costs add up as you can imagine.

    With Character Creator 3 Pipeline which I bought (as opposed to the more limited Character Creator 3 which comes free to purchasers of Iclone 7) it is possible to do what I showed above (and more).

    If I had a copy of the latest Iclone 7, I could have exported my characters as native iAvatars for it and animated them in iclone.  But I only have version 6 of Iclone.

    What I've done is use Character Creator 3 Pipeline as a stand-alone application to import DAZ characters as .fbx files exported from DAZ Studio.  The CC3 morphing and mixing tools - which can be added to by the add-on package I bought - (more cost) allow the characters to be morphed into all kinds of sizes and shapes.

    From there they can be exported as .obj or .fbx, (in a t-pose by default) or as iAvatars for Iclone (version 7, therefore not for me).

    There is a choice in .fbx export from CC3 of rigging for Maya and some others, which I can't recall.  I chose the default Maya rigging format and that's what I've shown in the examples.

    It is also possible for Iclone owners to export with animation from that program as iAvatars or .fbx files.  I own a previous version of Iclone and found I had some suitable motions which worked as shown in my Carrara video.

    When I tried to use some of my bought motions from Reallusion's store, however, I got a message telling me that I needed the export licence to do so.  (additional cost).

    My post is growing in length!

    Anyway, to continue ...

    When the motions are brought into Carrara there are keyframes by the thousand because they are probably Mo-cap in origin.  The figures also need to have their textures tweaked extensively to look OK in Carrara.  Therefore it would be better to string several Iclone motions together before export rather than have to go through all that tweaking for every motion.  I haven't tried to see if that can be done but there is space in CC3's export dialogue box for a list to be entered.

    An Iclone user has actually converted all the Carnegie motions to Iclone format and made them available to the community several years ago.

    Within Carrara, I think that the use of VWD would deal with poke-through (there is some in the curtain-opening motion in my video).

    I'm sorry I can't tell about lip-sync in Iclone or Carrara - I don't know.

    My main reason for not buying Iclone 7 is the system requirements and I'm also not greatly impressed by the outdoor scenery yet.  If my interest was Sci-fi, say, or contemporary I'd be happier with it.  Those who export Iclone characters and animation to game engines such as Unity, however, have the world at their feet with the scenery that can be purchased.  Nevertheless, with Carrara a great deal can also be achieved, I think.

    As always, this being a DAZ forum, it needs to be said that this workflow means, I hope, that G3 and G8 figures/assets may still be bought by Carrara users for eventual use in Carrara animation.

    Lastly, those who make a first purchase from Reallusion become 'members'.  Thereafter, they pay members reduced prices, I believe.  So, if you are going to spend, maybe look to buy one thing first.

    Also, motions are bought for Iclone, not for CC3.  CC3 has no timeline or playback tools.  Motions live in the Iclone content library and I don't know if they can be bought and downloaded without Iclone being there.

  • Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 781
    edited February 17

    To clarify more briefly:

    I export .fbx from DAZ Studio;

    I don't put the figures into iclone to add add animations there but I export from CC3 with animations existing in the library of my older version of Iclone.  These can be added in the CC3 export dialogue box.

    I could create my own custom animations with any Iclone figure in the old version of Iclone and save them in the content library there.  Then (I think, but haven't attempted) I could also grab those motions when exporting from CC3.

    Gasp! All these program versions and workflows! 

    Post edited by Marcus Severus on
  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 600

    If I was with you now  I'd buy you a drink for that extensive reply to my inquiry. Thankyou so much though I fear it wont be the end of it !!

    I have to digest everything you said but a quick comment.

    You might reduce the number of imported keyframes using Carraras flatten tool  -  Find it in      Animation / Filters / then either Smooth or Reduce option.

    If by'tweaking textures" you mean getting rid of those highlights , Fenrics Shader Doctor is a fast way to do that.

    The NLA feature in Carrara is very robust but can be a bit fiddly making clips.  Excuse me if I'm advising on what you already know.

    Thanks again 

  • Thanks, 0oseven for the virtual drink.  Since its all virtual I'll have a glass of the most expensive liqueur that virtual money can buy  ... as long as it wasn't lying below sea in a wrecked ship for 300 years!

    I gave you a lot of guff to wade through - anyone who hadn't done your research into Reallusion products probably found my long post confusing and tedious to say the least and I'm sorry about that.  Reallusion itself has a sticky thread in their Forum entitled 'Confused about which product to buy?'  That tells us something!

    Like Diomede, Wendy and many others I take an interest in the ways different software worlds can interact with each other.  When I first started looking (before DAZ3d) it seemed that Poser and Bryce together could do everything I would wish for.  To this day these can still be used for amazing images.  With the addition of Hexagon or Silo and a paint package, I think I'd still be happy if that was all that was around. Nowadays, however, there is so much available to tantalise us that it is difficult (for me anyway) to just stick with what I have and use it to the full.  There is always something else on the horizon.

    Even so, time and again I find that Carrara is the stable centre of my own 3d world.  When I use DAZ Studio or the latest version of Poser or even Sculptris or 3dCoat, I have in mind Carrara interaction(with older figures, admittedly); my efforts can always be brought into Carrara for further work and rendering.

    It is the same for Iclone, except it's the other way round.  I can bring DAZ products and all sorts of other assets into Iclone via 3dXchange and assemble a quick scene for quick animation.  The clothing tools for the comparatively crude early figures in Iclone were good for prototyping garment ideas as well as giving the user a quick way to create lots of simple and differently-dressed characters.

    Since then Iclone has matured and is becoming something of a big player with associated big costs.  It is at the point for me where I would need to decide to spend a lot of money and time on it and on improved hardware in order to use it to the full.

    I'm not ready/able to do that yet but I think I made a good choice in trying out CC3 pipeline.  I can use the supplied characters or import DAZ, Poser,and Hivewire figures and clothes.  I can import clothing meshes which I've bought or made myself and have them conformed/rigged easily to the character. I can morph away with them into all kinds of new sizes and shapes and (because I have motion assets in an older version of Iclone) I can export them with animation.  So, for me I think it was a good purchase (I got a deal on an add-on Skin and Morph package which greatly expands CC3 Pipeline's usefulness.  The deal was valid during the trial period).

    Thank you for the advice on Carrara textures and key-frame handling.  These suggestions along with Wendy's practices are new to me.  There are still lot's of features in Carrara that I haven't used.

    Finally !!!

    In my previous long post I mentioned that I export from CC3 Pipeline as .FBX in Maya-compatible format.  This gives me a skeleton with tons of extra bones with names ending either in '...twist' or '...wireframe'  The twist bones will distort the mesh and lose IK but they can be selected and made invisible to get them out of the way.

    The 'Maya' .FBX' files don't work in Poser or Bryce, I found. 

  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 600

    Thanks again for extensive information.

    I told you about the "reduce frames" feature but remembered there actually is a problem/bug with it which is covered in a  discussion at "CarrarTors" here.Was reported to Daz but they wont be fixing it of course.

    http://www.bond3d.byethost18.com/index.php?topic=250.0

    Scroll down the topic and see a video I did on it.

    cheers

    [ iclone still in boiling pot ]

  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 600

    Just a quicky update on my Real Illusion findings. Have the demo now but as there is much to learn I can't try much also because of limit on my time. Watching lots of video.

    I learned too that their assets and animation clips are expensive !!  to quote Marcus  "  time and again I find that Carrara is the stable centre of my own 3d world."

    That makes me think I could buy a lot of Daz content with what I would END UP up paying to use Iclone  !!! Hmmmm

  • yes its not cheap hence my sticking with 6 for now, I am usually a version behind

  • Please excuse my absence from this thread which I started - I've had a lot on my plate and haven't had a chance to try these things out further.

    Thanks for the video link, 0oseven.

    It isn't easy to get much of  a feel for a program during a short trial.  Trials usually have limitations and for me there is a difference in my attitude to something I'm using for free compared to something I paid for in hard cash.  In January I tried out Marvelous Designer but hardly opened it.  Had I bought it, though, trying to make stuff with it would be compulsory now.

    When I first tried Iclone6, I had a quick play with it.  I put a small scene together, added characters and put on a few one-click motions to see how they looked.  I also played around with a dragon and some of its motions.  In that way I had a number of clips all done in a short time.  Then the idea came to put a couple of them together with a bit of a story.

    The result is spoiled by my choice of putting the conversation as scrolling text over the video but it was only done on a whim:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBXXnhrjtSM

    If you took a look, then you'll know it's rubbish but Iclone does enable lots of (definitely unpolished) animation to be done in a short time.  One nice thing about Iclone is that animation is not something behind a big high wall as it is for beginners in other software.  Something can be done in only a few mouse-clicks and this can enable creative ideas which can be realized properly in Iclone or other software. 

     My reason for showing the video above was to suggest that you try something similar:  build any small scene from the assets supplied and put in a couple of characters.  Give them a motion or two.  Try camera panning over the scene.  Do a close-up of a face and so on.  Get a few rendered clips and put them into a video editor.  Now you have a short animation made with Iclone.

    Here is another extremely short trial I made:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSGI4yXNKrs

    The scene was all done in Iclone but the foliage was from a DAZ model and the background was actually a rendered video of Carrara's Ocean.  It effectively gave the impression of water reflections shimmering, I think.

    To show how I mix and match the software I have, here is a Poser render of V4 wearing a garment I made in Hexagon.  The background is a frame from the video and the other items in the scene were just brought in from the Poser library to see what they looked like.

    Later I imported the whole Poser scene into a Carrara animation I had already made and rendered a still image.  (The DAZ Genesis2 character was going into the water and wearing the swimwear which came free with DAZ Studio but in showing this old render here, I'd rather I'd had something less skimpy to use.  We've all seen DAZ and Poser figures as they come out of the box, I suppose).  None of this has any post-work (and the images are all utterly meaningless, I might add - but it shows what I meant when I wrote about the different software I have revolving round Carrara mainly).

    If I can get another Iclone tryout onto Youtube tonight I'll show another short example.

      

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  • Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 781

    For once, the Youtube upload was very fast.

    So, here is a Bryce render.  I used an almost identical render (which I can't find right now) as a background to this early tryout of Iclone 6.  Again it has no merit but is the simple kind of thing you might do during your Iclone trial.  It's the same cat-walk motion I showed at the start of this discussion - shows how much I've advanced!

    Here's the vid:

    https://youtu.be/qegPEuIrtKU

    Here's an old video tutorial showing a much earlier version of Iclone (Iclone 5Pro) in the hands of an expert who gets an income from using Iclone to create animated background scenery for theatre productions.:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mORks9gjR8&list=PLB19A9CF2BCAE5FAF&index=18&t=0s

     

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  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 2,442
    edited March 3
    0oseven said:

    Just a quicky update on my Real Illusion findings. Have the demo now but as there is much to learn I can't try much also because of limit on my time. Watching lots of video.

    I learned too that their assets and animation clips are expensive !!  to quote Marcus  "  time and again I find that Carrara is the stable centre of my own 3d world."

    That makes me think I could buy a lot of Daz content with what I would END UP up paying to use Iclone  !!! Hmmmm

    Indeed Iclone can quickly become quite a money pit
    unless you have no plans to ever render outside of Iclone
    or bring in characters from elsewhere.

    I have version 6.5 Pipeline with 3Dxchange and alembic export 
    and wont be upgrading any time soon.

    I think reallusion should consider unifying the many differrent
    versions or at least include the curve editor in the base package
    instead of making it a $100 USD add on.

    I  only use iclone to quickly iterate Base layer body motion/locomotion
    and retarget to whatever Genesis figure I am using, and export the
    BVH back to Daz studio for final tweaking with graphmate
    and Facial & lipsynch animation before exporting to C4D for rendering.

    Post edited by wolf359 on
  • Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 781

    @ Wolf: I think the ability to export with alembic using 3Dxchange pipeline gives you an edge over CC3 Pieline only users.  I would need to simulate physics after exporting in the workflow to Carrara.  The VWD program is ideal for this but I haven't yet bought the plugin for Carrara to test it all out.

    @ everyone: I had a bit more time to attempt a better example of a Reallusion motion applied to Genesis 2 and rendered in Carrara.

    Here is the video:

    https://youtu.be/e0isUZgJtyg

    Also a screenshot:

     

     

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  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 2,442

    @ Wolf: I think the ability to export with alembic using
     3Dxchange pipeline gives you an edge over CC3 Pieline
     only users.  I would need to simulate 
    physics after exporting in the workflow to Carrara. 

     

    Understand, I think CC3 pipeline is a useful tool for certain demographics of users
    it is just that I do not fall into any of those demographics.

    Because I am not a game developer 
    and I will never render finals in Iclone's crappy native renderer
    or its recently added Brute force path tracer from NVIDIA( Iray).

    I have experimented with the alembic export of an Iclone Avatar to Lightwave3D
    So it  is good to know I have that option as well
    However at the moment I will be only using Iclone for base layer motionbuilding
    and export BVH to Genesis 1,2,3.

  • Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 781

    It's good that you have a workflow to be productive as a professional.

    Being a pastime for me, 3d work is a tangle of trying out things, trying to learn what can be done and trying to overcome the frustrations encountered.

    Yesterday I had some time to get stuck in and I produced the little video in my previous post.  Nothing of it was mine apart from the photograph in the background of trees in the mist.  The grotto was bought, the character and the motion came from DAZ/Reallusion.  Just lighting it and positioning things and multiple small judgements are all I can claim as my own.  But it was pleasing recreation (BTW pleasing recreation - the kind of expression I find myself writing but would never use in a real-life conversation).

    Today I had a few hours again and I wanted to re-create the exact scene in Iclone6 and Poser to compare results.

    Poser was a non-starter because the CC3 FBX file was no good.  Neither was a version of the file exported from Carrara.  So Poser was out.

    I got the grotto into Iclone via 3dxChange 5 and put the CC3-exported figure in as well and added the motion.  But I tried everything to get a simple spotlight to shine on the grotto.  The figure picks up the light OK but the scenery doesn't.  I've been trying this with multiple interruptions because I look after a disabled family member whom I can't leave alone for long.  Now I need to read the Iclone manual on lights if I want to continue the exercise. 

    Speaking of lights, I also tried without any success to use Carrara's 'Anything Glows' light to place in the two little lanterns.  No success no matter what I tried - but I did discover that there is so much more to Carrara's light than I previously thought.  The same for Carrara's native render.  So more reading a manual, more trial and error.

    I just want to compare final results because Iclone offers quick particles, mist and other effects (which I also tried today on the Carrara scene without getting anywhere).

    Apart from being a pastime for me, there is the ambition to eventually produce some of the animated stories I have in mind.

    If this was my living and not one of my hobbies I would be chasing the most effective ways to get things done but I find myself liking all the software I've bought most of the time.

    Hope I haven't wasted your time with the above - it's mostly just musing.

    Again it's good that you have a settled workflow.  I'm just finding out what can work and what doesn't with the tools I have.

     

     

  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 600

    Like you Marcus  i try many different software mainly looking for simplified tools for movie making and without complicated processes to use characters and scenes from other software . Iclone probably comes closer than any but usually get annoyed because I just wasted more time trying to learn new software when I am forever saying Carrara can do that anyway. There are of course things it wont do so have to balance needs

    My gripe basically revolves around the lack of DAZ support for Genesis and am frustrated by DAZ not developing it any more though we have great guys doing plug ins. We are SO lucky for that

    I love Carrara Lights  -  put a bulb into your lantern and in effects panel add a glow -  Bulb will also affect the scene unless you restrict lighting to particular objects. CARRARA ?  I never knew there was so much in it !

  • UnifiedBrainUnifiedBrain Posts: 2,128

    Always nice to see some animator talk, even though I don't follow it that well - yet.

     

    0oseven said:

    CARRARA ?  I never knew there was so much in it !

    Agreed.  Carrara is not so much difficult as it is simply huge.  For me, the main issues with Carrara are:

    1.  The time it takes to learn its vast arrary of functions.

    2.  The time it takes to learn the near-infinite ways in which all of those functions combine.

    3.  Remembering all of the above. :)

     

     

  • Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 781

    That lighting advice was a great help to me, 0oseven.  Many thanks.

    The lack of DAZ support in Carrara for Genesis 3 and 8 doesn't matter much to me because I don't keep too much up-to-date with DAZ Studio and I haven't invested in many store assets - except for the occasional purchase.  There has been at least one workaround, (by Mystara) which I haven't followed because I've only recently upgraded Studio to get those figures.  CC3 Pipeline, however does allow me to import them, morph,dress and either pose or animate them (because I have Iclone motions) and use a derived close approximation of them in Carrara.

    As Wendy, stated in a post above, she has been doing the same using a full version of Iclone and 3dXchange.

    @ UnifiedBrain, my animator talk is mostly all talk.  I only have lots of clips of a couple of seconds and the beginning of a storyboard.  Carrara does have a lot to offer.  It's now like an old guy with many skills who finds himself made redundant and looking for a job.  No-one wants him because they think they can do better.  The ones who do employ him find he does all he needs them to.  (That's as far as I'll get into contentious discussion!  Other good software exists as we all know).

    I think I have exhausted all I know of the topic of this thread and hope my own liking of Carrara shows as much as I like CC3.

    I'll attach some images of my 'glow light' - first attempt and final version.

    Also I'll show the Grotto I used.  The lights and treasure chest are all part of it and can't be hidden.

    I'm showing lastly an image where one frame of the animation is being used as a pose and the figure has a more appropriate garment (picked at random).

    The use of Reallusion's motion-captured clips is a good way to get a snapshot pose of a moving figure all ready-made.  The down side is that they are difficult to amend for feet going through the ground and so on.  Also they're rarely exactly what's needed.

     

     

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  • Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 781

    Finally, here is where I got to with trying to replicate the same scene in Iclone 6.

    I put the wrong Genesis2 figure in but have added the same dance motion.

    The problem I need to solve is why the grotto isn't receiving the light.  There will be an easy solution, I guess - I haven't given it any time yet.

    It will be interesting to have a comparison with Carrara's output when I get a chance.

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  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 600

     

    "is a good way to get a snapshot pose of a moving figure all ready-made.

    Do it in Carrara - set playhead  timeline on Animation  frame you want and in render settings set  Render current frame. Can also go back and adjust character if there's something [anything at all ] you dont like, change and then re render.   

    "Iclone offers quick particles, mist and other effects"  here a couple of scenes using Carrara fog and a stage set with multiple spots [one day I'll have a character do something on this stage ha!]

     "The time it takes to learn its vast array of functions."  True but the more you learn the better it gets- Usually there is no better way - except of course for a function that doesn't exist such as object fracture or rag doll BUT you never know what plugin will be generously provided for us in the future. There was mention of a fracture tool at some stage. We've recently got fluids and the vwd cloth is great.

    Whats all this to do with Iclone - The discussion has helped me understand that whilst CC3 may assist in using Genesis there is a downside.

    Expensive  Software and Content . Questionable lighting  and renders not good without Iray. I maybe better off using my time on refining knowledge of Carrara than hours on learning new software

     

      

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  • Hi 0oseven.  Thanks for showing the great renders which leave no doubt about some of Carrara's capabilities.  It's my liking for Carrara and for what it's capable of which led me to try rendering Iclone motions from within it in the first place.

    Yes, I did take snapshots as you suggested from within Carrara in the images in my previous post.  What I meant to say about Iclone's motion clips is that they can allow great still poses if the motion is paused but the downside of the full motion in animation is the problem of interacting perfectly with the scene they are inserted into.  Iclone film-makers use all kinds of camera shfts and tricks to hide flaws.

    So, remembering that I only have Iclone 6, I gave myself a crash course in lighting.  I only scratched the surface and there are so many variations of the sliders, tick-boxes and so on that I just made some quick but flawed renders for comparison with the Carrara efforts.  In more experienced hands much better could have been produced.

    I would like to correct the impression I gave of Iclone's lighting being questionable - it is very capable and the problems before were of my doing.

    I attach two quick renders which could no doubt be improved.  The figure is an interim Reallusion figure, now superceded and the cloth physics came built in.

    Also an animation where I played fast and loose with a few of Iclone 6's light and render settings.

    None of this is an attempt to sell Iclone to you.  I often used to look at VUE in the same way and decided against it in the end.

    https://youtu.be/k8jlvadNZTc

     

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  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 600

    "None of this is an attempt to sell Iclone to you "    Well its good to see its capabilities  - I liked your renders and the video. Which do you like the Iclone ones or the Carrara ones - Iclone has a more dreamy [ fuzzy ] look akin to a fairytale story. From here on it gets very personal as to what the render should look like ha ha ! The relavant factor might be render time, especially the video ? I know Carraras shadows slow things down a heck of a lot.

     

  • Quick reply, 0oseven, since I have a very early appointment tomorrow...

    Thanks for looking at the various attachments.  I'm pleased that you like them.  I'm getting a lot of mileage out of the little grotto prop.  Since posting earlier I've been putting some renders both from Carrara and Iclone through fotosketcher and I'm liking the effects.

    The Iclone animation began like the Carrara one with one bulb and one spotlight.  But when I came to render the animation I went ahead and checked a couple of render setting boxes just to see the effects.  They gave me a bunch of sliders and I just messed around quickly with them.  That's what gave me the (overdone) glowing effects.  I varied the light settings along the timeline also (by accident) and I added the particles with one click - ignoring the options provided.

    The Carrara version was done with more care with the lights casting foliage shadows and the set dressed a bit more.

    So, I think Iclone is capable of good results with practice and care but I know what I'm doing more with Carrara and have much more to learn.

    Iclone has always been fun to use for me as a hobbyist but a professional not in it for fun should weigh up the costs and capabilities carefully.

    I'll end here with two final pictures from fotosketcher.

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  • Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 781
    edited March 22

    Even though this thread is probably past it's sell-by date, I thought I'd mention the latest things tried out.

    An email offer from Reallusion of Iclone7 at half price along with $10 store credit led me to re-visit the system requirements and I found I'd been misleading myself and that I could get it to work on my machine.

    So, I bought Iclone 7 and have had some fun trying it out.  There's not much further to say that hasn't been covered earlier in the thread but I tried making the simplest of simple clothes in Hexagon to fit to Genesis 2 in Character Creator.  The clothing conformed in one click so I put it into the earlier Carrara Scene:

    https://youtu.be/KP9mc4tgNUk

    I tried the figure alone with a soft-body ribbon and I also tried an Iclone CC3 character with a string of motions - they haven't been cleanly joined but it was only a test.  This is rendered in Carrara:

    https://youtu.be/YLNRv6gne04

    Lastly, I tried my clothing article on Genesis 2 rendered in Iclone and have another render of the Grotto scene In Iclone with a Reallusion native CC3 character:

    https://youtu.be/z3xbS5Z-mFY

    The clothing wasn't UV mapped which leaves it looking faceted for now.  I don't know yet whether VWD could be used on it.  This would depend on VWD distinguishing the character body mesh from the clothing in the .fbx files I've brought into Carrara.  Poser's cloth room failed to do that.

    Here are a couple of still frames from some of the videos I made:

     

     

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    Post edited by Marcus Severus on
  • MatCreatorMatCreator Posts: 191

    As promised Marcus, here are my attempts of Iclone/Carrara...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjUGuY_K0zc For the character here I used the native 3D Coat Voxel Figure remshed in Zbrushed and rigged in Mixamo. Took that thru 3DXchange to use in Iclone and added a motion clip with audio.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vydsvMR8rRU This uses a Character Creator preset with blended motion clips, rendered in Carrara

    So far, I really enjoy the new toys. I got the version 7 pipeline because I was interested in creating new styles of characters, something different from Daz Studio and Poser that I ould use/render in Carrara or Bryce. Iclone is awesome for animation, the features and tools avaialable make it real easy to set up animations, and if I wanted to go deeper into that, I could. Physics, effects, blending motions and syncing vocals with facial expressions are easy to set up. With practice, even the more advanced stuff can be done fairly easy, or so it seems from the videos Ive watched.

    Im not familar at all with Carraras animation tools, and for someone just stepping in I found Iclone much more intuitive and forgiving. Adding audio, vocals, walk paths and fine tuning motion blends was a snap vs Carrara, but in all fairness, I am not familair with Carraras animation tools.

    I was extremely disappointed that the Iclone animation didnt transfer the vocals to Carrara. Characters speaking and having their face apply the motions is automatic in Iclone, and a newcomer can easily get spoiled by that. And while IClones rendering isnt that great, timewise its superfast.

    So far, Ive been able to rig/use MakeHuman, Fuse and custom characters using the 3dXChange program and Mixamo, but compared to a Daz Studio or Poser Character its a huge loss in features that ive become acustomed to. Still, for single frame imagery and animation, it was worth the investment.

    Other than the forums here, there isnt much on animation with Carrara, which is sad, because Id still prefer to use Carrara for final output. But for something like getting a character to walk a predetermined path and talk in sync with the audio, with my limited knowledge Id be forced to use Iclone for now.

    Id like to see from Carrara more characters interacting with other characters, conversation with facial expressions in sync with the audio, motions and effects.

  • SadKitty_CarraraSadKitty_Carrara Posts: 22,026
    edited August 11

    I was extremely disappointed that the Iclone animation didnt transfer the vocals to Carrara.

    My workaround is I use iClone 5 & 6 and made my own facial presets by manually moving the bones and saved it,  so don’t need to export my FBX from DAZ studio animated, much smaller files, bone based works on any mesh with the same bones regardless of vertex count.

    This is Genesis 3 & 8 that have facial bones

    its tedious but only needs to be done once and my visemes are different to anyone else’s

    And animates face and all in Carrara and as iProps too!

    Post edited by SadKitty_Carrara on
  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 600

    @matcreator

    "Other than the forums here, there isnt much on animation with Carrara, which is sad, because Id still prefer to use Carrara for final output"

     

    If not already checked try this  http://www.bond3d.byethost18.com/index.php CarraraTors is especially for animators

     

  • UnifiedBrainUnifiedBrain Posts: 2,128
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vydsvMR8rRU This uses a Character Creator preset with blended motion clips, rendered in Carrara

    What is a Character Creator preset?  

    Is the walk cycle created in the other program?  It looks very nice.  Is a walk cycle like this even possible to create using just Carrara?  I'm asking, because the ones I've seen don't look that good.

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