I am not even sure if it is possible, but...
father1776
Posts: 982
I would love the ability in Daz 3D to just turn on collision.
Particularly when I am doing posing.
If Daz 3D had that option, posing would be a lot easier.
You need a model sitting in an odd shaped chair, no problem, shove his/her butt down on it,
he/she sits because they can not pass through the surface.
As said earlier, as a turn on/turn off option
likely not an option though.
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This appears to be a recurring request. So on the one hand you are in good company, on the other hand, you might well be waiting a long time for such a feature in DS; the rest of us have already been waiting a long time.
lol that made me giggle
Posers for collision unite !
That would be a really nice feature. You never know, they might put it in DazStudio 5
That was what I thought would be the best situation.
Daz 5 with built in collision. I am not into animation,
but it would likely help there as well.
In the real world I try to avoid collisions, but in DAZ it would be pretty awesome.
It would speed up custom posing A LOT. :-)
Hi what you are describnig would require a realtime collision phyiscs solver to be
active at all times, in the view port, which would be extemely hardware intensive with a figure as complex
as a Daz geneis model.
So not really a practical feature for Daz studio.
Here is a video of such realtim collission physics on some very
simple characters in a game engine.
Hi Wolf, could you give a bit more info on this? Why don't you think it would be practical for DAZ Studio?
If a person were using DS on a less powerful machine, then the collision physics could be switched on and off as required. Many, if not most, DS users have pretty powerful computers. As I have heard someone else put it... "If you don't have a reasonably powerful machine then maybe 3D rendering and animation is not the hobby for you." Whilst I would not want to be elitist, the reality is that 3D graphics can't be done on an abacus!
There are plenty of software packages with physics engines which handle figures as complex or more complex than the genesis figures, so it can be done. Since I know someone will bring out that old chestnut, "Ah, but DS is free software, so you can't expect such high level features." I would just like to point out that DS does already have many high level features. The fact that the program itself is free is a business model decision by DAZ3d. They make their money from selling content and provide the software free. Nothing wrong with that. If DAZ3d wanted to they could quite easily make DAZ Studio Advanced as a paid for program, or they could make a physics module as a plugin for DS, available in their store. I and many others would be happy to pay for that.
My point is that physics collision and much more besides, COULD be available in DS, but at the moment it is not. We are still waiting.
Post a link to such a Character program doing what the OP describes
that is not a realtime game engine
with simple low poly Game Characters like in the video I posted.
Real physics would be mainly used in posing.
The display should be set to the simpler version during this process.
Once the posing is done, turn physics off and turn the graphics back up.
Physics would only be a turn on/off tool to speed up accurate posing of models and never intended to leave on.
well really only the bones need bounding boxes with an option to dissallow overlap
with themselves and other figures and the bounding boxes of props
that is no different to imposing limits in theory
if this could be coded in
the actual mesh deformation can be added using the smoothing modifier afterwards
Wolf, I have no desire to get in to an argument with you. Maya and Houdini spring to mind, I'm sure there are others. I think Blender can utililize a physics engine in its animation package, and Blender is free. No links since they are not allowed. Rather that arguing with me over the details of other software (which I won't do!), lets keep the discussion to DAZ Studio. Why don't you think physics is practical for DS?
I think that, today, maybe just a few really high end PCs could handle that kind of thing! Even dForce needs a simulation, and it's not in real time.
Maybe it will be the standard in 10 years! ^^
Not that simple. Consider: where is the bounding box of a chair? (Hint: nowhere near the seat.)
It is true that dForce simulation is not in realtime. However, other programs manage to do cloth simulation in real time. In the software Marvelous Designer, you can grab and pull the clothing where you want with "gravity" working all the time (Here is a link to a MD tutorial, I think that is allowed. Skip to about halfway through to see what I mean:)
You certainly do not need a super computer to run Marvelous Designer. Why physics (particle movement/collision/cloth simulation etc) is slow/limited in DS, I do not know. If someone (perhaps a DS developer?) who does actually know would care to explain then we would all be the wiser. I do not believe it needs to take 10 years of computer hardware development before DS could have a good physics engine.
Hi I am not asserting that physics ,in general, is not possible
In DS Dforce already proves that it is.
Poser has had it for over a decade via Python
These are simulations that you invoke and run until completed.
The OP wants a realtime global collision system the will keep every surface of the Daz genesis figure from
penetrating another .
this is possible with a set of collssion proxies attached to every bodypart being solved constantly to avoid intersecting.
This is exactly what is happeing in the the unity video I posted earlier.
With poser physics it creates invisble simple proxies for each bodypart when the SIMULATION is passed over the the python physics
engine to be calulated& baked to keyframes.
Daz studio is not a realtime game engine like Unity or UE4.
Daz has zero retail store related incentive to create a system where studio
is Bogged down in a state of constant live physics calculation so that people wont have to use their brains
and move intersecting bodyparts apart with the highly useful posing tools already in the program.
Even if it were theoretically feasible to do in real time with enough CPU/GPU horsepower it would still be impractical because the models in DAZ Studio are designed for rendering, not physics simulations. Some models have bad normals, non-manifold edges, self-intersecting geometry, unwelded geometry, etc. that would make detecting collision impossible without re-meshing the colliders.
Interesting, I was not aware that Genesis models are constructed in such a haphazard way. Even so wouldn't it be easy enough to create a shell for each character, such that the shell is correctly constructed and use that as a collision object? Then when posing is finished, delete the collision shell and render. Not all surfaces would need a collision shell, just those being posed in close proximity.
I don't believe the comment was intended to apply to the Genesis figues themselves, but we know that self-intersection and unwelded mesh are issues with soem clothes as it prevents them from working with dForce (and I would not accept that that made them haphazard - they meet the requirements for their intended use, it's just that later additions may have other requirements)..
I think folks are over thinking what I and others want.
Turn something on, and if we move a model's finger in the direction of
another object...say a drinking glass?
that finger section will stop and not penetrate the surface of another object.
It should not effect objects that have visuals turned off, so clothing can be turned off as to not trap
a model inside their clothes.
not critical
By the time this could be added, we might want compatability with augmented reality headset instead.
then we could just 'reach over' grab the the model and move it like a posable doll.
don't get any nasty ideas...lol
You still need to understand that there needs to be a physics engine
defining& calculating what objects will not be defined as a collision surface
and not penetrated.
And if you want only a models hand to be calculated then you will have to define that part
to the ,collision engine, with a weight map or with an attached collision proxy object just as Dforce
Defines the Draping cloth areas of a dress while ignoring the conforming upperbody section via weightmaps.
For example in Iclone Pro we have both a cloth & hair physics
engine that is realtime ( no waitng for simulations)
Yet still We have to Load collision proxies for certain parts of the body to keep the hair from
passing through the shoulders.
Now in the Case of Natural motion endorphin the collision system is global
nothing will penetrete anything else... ever
However everything ,including the figures,
are primitive collision dummies from which you export BVH data after the simulation
to apply to more complex figures in other programs.
While it is a simple concept to explain, implementing it in a computer program is not so simple. I recommend you research how Nvidia PhysX and the open source Bullet solver work. They simulate an approximation, lower resolution collider in order to attain their speed instead of the actual full geometry. While you could apply this procedure to a Genesis figure, the loss of resolution on things like a finger would make the endevor worthless as you would still have poke through.