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Draping issue wth dForce Femme Fatale Dress for Genesis 3 and 8 Female(s) by Sshodan

AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,726
edited December 2018 in The Commons

I purchased Femme Fatale yesterday, https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-femme-fatale-dress-for-genesis-3-and-8-females , as my vampire library just couldnt be complete without it. Unfortunately the jacket seems to have in issue that is preventing a good drape. Whenever I run a simulation, the lower right cuff of the jacket rubber bands to the dress and clings to it at the hip causing the bad drape. Ive attempted the simulation with a number of poses and in the default A pose with base G8F and I still have the issue. I also simulated a drape with just the jacket and no dress and in the A pose it seemed to work ok. When I altered the pose however by placing G8F's arms in the full back position (Arms Front-Back -100%), the jacket exploded. In the full front position (Arms Front-Back 100%) the jacket did try to stick the G8F's right thigh and then suffered a simulation error at 92%. Here are a number of pics demonstrating the issue. If anyone else out there has dforce Femme Fatale can you confirm?

Look at the lower right cuff position of the jacket.

Closer

From the back.

Arms back, dress back morph at 100%.

Jacket Issue_01.png
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Jacket Issue_02.png
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Jacket Issue_03.png
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Jacket Issue_04.png
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Jacket Issue_05.png
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Post edited by AnotherUserName on

Comments

  • SshodanSshodan Posts: 31
    edited December 2018

    1. Did you try dailing "Back Out" morph a bit up before simulating? It should be active on load but worth double checking - make sure that the jacket is not touching the dress in the start of the simulation.

    2. Keep in mind that the jacket "swings forward" at the start of the sim, since it is a light fabric, so you may want to give it some time to settle - try Animated (use Timline Play Range) option and give it at least 60 frames to settle down.

    3. Althou I'd recomend running the sim on the derss before adding the texture, somtimes it's easier to see the issues that way :)

    Post edited by Sshodan on
  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,726
    Sshodan said:

    1. Did you try dailing "Back Out" morph a bit up before simulating? It should be active on load but worth double checking - make sure that the jacket is not touching the dress in the start of the simulation.

    2. Keep in mind that the jacket "swings forward" at the start of the sim, since it is a light fabric, so you may want to give it some time to settle - try Animated (use Timline Play Range) option and give it at least 60 frames to settle down.

    Yes. The last pic has the morph dialed back to full.

  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,726

    Ill try and animated timeline but ive also already tried extending simulation times and initialization times.

  • SshodanSshodan Posts: 31
    edited December 2018

    Well if all else fails there is always a good old separate simulation solution - hide the dress run the sim on the jacket, once you like how it looks hide the jacket and run the sim on the dress. Unhid the jacket, use back out morph to fix any clipping that may have occured (with such a tight dress there will be little to non).

    P.S. I althou would repeat the recommendation to remove the smoothing modifier - while it always worked for me I know it couses issues for other users when using dForce, I stopped adding it to my dForce items later on but that one still has it. You can re applay it after the simmulation is over :)

    Post edited by Sshodan on
  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,726
    edited December 2018
    Sshodan said:

    1. Did you try dailing "Back Out" morph a bit up before simulating? It should be active on load but worth double checking - make sure that the jacket is not touching the dress in the start of the simulation.

    2. Keep in mind that the jacket "swings forward" at the start of the sim, since it is a light fabric, so you may want to give it some time to settle - try Animated (use Timline Play Range) option and give it at least 60 frames to settle down.

    3. Althou I'd recomend running the sim on the derss before adding the texture, somtimes it's easier to see the issues that way :)

    It still wants to cling. This is with the Back Out morph at 100%, Animated (use Timeline Play Range) and untextured.

    Issue untextured.png
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    Post edited by AnotherUserName on
  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,726

    Im going to re-install and see if that changes anything.

  • SshodanSshodan Posts: 31

    Than separate simmulation it is - double collisions are always tricky in dynimics, dForce is better with them than most engines but somtimes it just refuses to do what you want it to do. Again - hide the dress, run the sim ont he jacket, unhid the dress hide the jacket run the sim. Unhid the jacket and al should be fine... As well as go quicker.

  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,726
    edited December 2018
    Sshodan said:

    Than separate simmulation it is - double collisions are always tricky in dynimics, dForce is better with them than most engines but somtimes it just refuses to do what you want it to do. Again - hide the dress, run the sim ont he jacket, unhid the dress hide the jacket run the sim. Unhid the jacket and al should be fine... As well as go quicker.

    Nope.

    Dosent work.

    With the dress hidden, the jacket back out morph at 100%, the smoothing modifier removed, untextured, Animated at 60 frames, the jacket will still cling. This is because, as I indicated earlier but perhaps was not clear enough, the dress is clinging to G8 without the dress or anything else on. Both of these examples are on a fresh install. I exited after each attempt to make sure nothing carried over into the next attempt. Pic 1 shows the jacket with the dress hidden. Pic 2 shows just the jacket with nothing else (the underwear was added after the simulation). It wont work.

    Nope.png
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    No.png
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    Post edited by AnotherUserName on
  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,726

    This does not seem to be an issue with the G3F version of the dress however.

  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,726

    Ticket submitted.

  • SshodanSshodan Posts: 31
    edited December 2018

    Sorry for the delay - had to run the sim and render the thing :)
    This is a 121 frame sim. As I sad the jacket is "floaty" bounces back and forth a lot and swings forward while draping. At this point it is still swinging and not hanging still. You need to give it time to settle - keep in mind that sim speed when you are comparing it to real world is usually in cinematic frames per second - 30 frames per second. 60 frame equals to 2 RL seconds... Not a lot of time for fabric to drape down when it is swinging actively.
    I although upped the gravity value to 2 to help things along.
    Just loading a full set and giving it LOTS of time will work if you want it to not cling at all, but if you want to speed thins up - hid the dress do the separate sim and hide all body parts the jacket will not be touching - the less geometry to collide with the faster it will go and you can be sure it will not do anything you don't want it to do :)

    Hope this helps :)

     

    FemmeFatale_DrapeTest.png
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    Post edited by Sshodan on
  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,879
    edited December 2018
    Sshodan said:

    hid the dress do the separate sim and hide all body parts the jacket will not be touching - the less geometry to collide with the faster it will go and you can be sure it will not do anything you don't want it to do :)

     

    There is an option for every item on the paramater tab that can shut off or turn on visability to draping.   Though hiding individual body parts is still useful too.

     

    Btw, I really like that dress, the other one and all the chains.  Got then all, they look great.

    Post edited by Mattymanx on
  • SshodanSshodan Posts: 31
    edited December 2018

    Thank you Mattymanx! :) I'm very glad you enjoy the stuff I make :)

    Post edited by Sshodan on
  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,726
    Sshodan said:

    Sorry for the delay - had to run the sim and render the thing :)
    This is a 121 frame sim. As I sad the jacket is "floaty" bounces back and forth a lot and swings forward while draping. At this point it is still swinging and not hanging still. You need to give it time to settle - keep in mind that sim speed when you are comparing it to real world is usually in cinematic frames per second - 30 frames per second. 60 frame equals to 2 RL seconds... Not a lot of time for fabric to drape down when it is swinging actively.
    I although upped the gravity value to 2 to help things along.
    Just loading a full set and giving it LOTS of time will work if you want it to not cling at all, but if you want to speed thins up - hid the dress do the separate sim and hide all body parts the jacket will not be touching - the less geometry to collide with the faster it will go and you can be sure it will not do anything you don't want it to do :)

    Hope this helps :)

     

    Testing...

  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,726

    Yah, sorry. If I hide the dress and freeze the simulation and turn off simulation visibility on the pelvis and children and raise the timeline frames, etc., I can get a drape with no cling. But what if I want to cross her arms and have the jacket and the dress flow together in interesting ways? What if I want to introduce wind? Ive already spent way too many hours trying to get a drape that I like and I cant so im going to have to stop. Its a beautiful dress and maybe im too picky, but this is going to have to be a return for me. Thanks for trying.

  • SshodanSshodan Posts: 31
    edited December 2018

    It is entierly up to you of course. But I do have to note that complex dynimics are complex dynamics - if you want a great result with complex items you have to wrok for it... As you can see in pormos you can do all kinds of stuff - seating, standing, wind, laying down and so on, I'm sorry I can't make it as easy as conforming item but it is what it is.

    Happy rendering and thanks for truying! :)

    Post edited by Sshodan on
  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,750

    I only now managed to buy this product and played around with it a bit. So I'd like to my insights which might - or not - help to work with it:

    1. in the simulation part of the different surfaces on surfaces tab there is a setting for "Collision Layer". Use it! I kept the setting 1 for all parts of the dress, except for the back and front folds (set it to 2 here). And when using the dress with the jacket, then set all surfaces of the jacket to a value of 3.
    2. for all surfaces of the dress and jacket, except for "Skirt" and "Firlls" (which is an obvious typo and supposed to mean Frills) I set the "Contraction-Expansion Ratio" to 100%. For "Skirt" and "Frills" I set it to 95%. Using a value other than 100% leads to the cloth to move for an prolonged time, often leading to it getting stuck on other parts of the clothing piece or the figure wearing it.
    3. I also removed the "Self Collide" setup of "On" for all surfaces except for the "Frills", as this also leads to a lot of movement of the cloth and often to a quite unrealistic drape, as parts of the surface act as if they are pushed away from each other like by magnetism. On the other hand, turn it off might sometimes with parts intermingle with each other. Find the sweet spot for yourself ;)
    4. Using the timeline help a lot. Use at least 90 ticks, more is better.. inject any posed around the 60s tick to allow for the cloth to drape.

    Good luck...

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