Joint editor problem

LD1

I am following the “DAZ Studio Rigging Made Easy” tutorial. I have been able to follow along, but I am stumped at one point. The Thigh bones are very tiny and he explains how to grab the Green dot and drag it up to increase the size of the bone, Problem is - The joint dots and arrows aren’t showing up. So I have nothing that I can grab and drag.

I have included a screenshot to show the tools etc. that I have selected. I have also included a screenshot of what the narrator is doing - that I can't.

How do I get the arrows and dots back?

Richard Haseltine

That is old-style parametric rigging - not that the bone positioning doesn't apply to weight-mapped rigging too, but later parts of the tutorial will be of less use. I'm not sure what is going on, but please post a screen shot showing the Tool Settings pane.

LD1

Thank you for replying. I have included the screenshot that you wanted.

Question 2: Can you answer this: When you said: "...later parts of the tutorial will be of less use.” Are you saying that this tutorial package is no good? I see that later on it gets into TriAx rigging etc. I ask because I have been trying for ages to find a tutorial that will show me from start to finish how to rig a figure. Nothing that I found on YouTube etc. helps. Usually it just shows one aspect or another.  So I finally decided to buy a comprehensive video tutorial from DAZ. Did I choose wrong (I don’t want to wast my time continuing if I did)? Do you know of a better one?

Question 3: I loaded in another OBJ> Converted the prop to a figure> and then looked to see if the arrows were there - they were but they were tiny. Is there a way to make the arrows bigger?

If possible, please number your answer to correspond with my question numbers.

Thanks again for helping me.

LD1

BTW: Whether or not I chose poorly on the video tutorial - I still would like to know the answer to question 1 about the missing arrows.

I think I have figured out why I got small arrows in question 3: I mistakenly loaded the obj in at 1000% and then scaled it down. Afterward I converted it to a prop - which increased it size again. When I reduced to regular size, the arrows reduced also. --- BUT, if you do know of a way to increase the size of the arrows - I still would like to know.

Thanks once again for your help.

andya_b341b7c5f5

I have the tutorial you are using.  I'd say it's only average, partly because approx the first half covers parametric rigging which as far as I understand is little used these days - superceded by TriAx and General weight mapping.

The green and red widgets for the center/end points of the bones only appear when the Joint Editor tool is active - you won't see them in Figure Setup as shown in your first screenshot. 

Regarding the size of the widgets, how big are they if you load a default Daz figure (G8F, G3M, whatever) and activate the Joint Editor?  I am wondering whether it's just that your box man is huge and the size of the widgets are small by comparison?  The values for the end point position in the latest screenshot seem rather large.

LD1

Q: “The green and red widgets for the center/end points of the bones only appear when the Joint Editor tool is active - you won't see them in Figure Setup as shown in your first screenshot.”

A: I do have the Joint Editor Tool selected. If not, the bones wouldn’t be showing in that first screenshot.

Q: “…how big are they if you load a default Daz figure (G8F, G3M, whatever) and activate the Joint Editor”?

A: They are normal sized. I did try scaling the figure way up and way down to see if the arrow widget would show up - it didn’t. I then tried to start from scratch, but for some reason I couldn’t drag the geometry onto Figure setup's Relationship list. I must have missed something during this second try. I am about ready to give up trying to rig figures.

But before I give up, do you know of a better tutorial that takes you from start to finish in rigging a figure? If not. Thank you for all your help.

Richard Haseltine

The bone selected in your screen shot of Toll Settings doesn't have any geoemtry assigned, and is aligned along the x-axis (the first axis in the rotation order is the one that runs along the bone). When you leave Figure Setup the bones are laid along the axis, their limits set by the bounding box of the geometry used - if that's the thigh bone you are working on that might be why you don't get the manipulation gizmos, or tiny gizmos.

I meant that the parametric stuff is not so useful - on fall-off angle and spheres. The Tri Ax section should still be useful.

andya_b341b7c5f5

Sorry, I don't have any of other rigging tutorials from the Daz store so cannot vouch for them.  I'm no expert, and what I do know I have learnt from all the Youtube videos and other stuff around online that I could find, and from that tutorial you are using.  Not a very structured way to learn and the quality varies hugely, as does how out of date the information is - the tools more than the basic concepts.

I've never tried parametric rigging. 

It's odd that the bones in your first screenshot are colored red, whereas the ones in the tutorial are grey or yellow when selected, but it's probably not relevant.

LD1

Richard

Well I am not sure what happened, but I loaded a Genesis figure to see its bone structure and then clicked on my Box man to compare, and to my surprise, the arrows were back!! Also, the tutorial had me make the thighs as Siblings rather than Children. So when you mentioned that they had no geometry (which I am still a little confused about what you meant) this spurred me to make them children of the hip. And when I created a new figure - the thigh bones were full sized!!

Thank you one last time for your help. I can now proceed with the tutorial.  

Bye,

LD1

Richard Haseltine

In Parametric riggin in particular each bone will usually have a group of polygon associated with it, listed in the Selection Set entry in Tool Settings with the Joint Editor active. Bones can be without geometry, because they are spacers between other bones (which with parametric rigging ensures their children can't affect their parent) or handles (where they are used to modify their parent bone, as with the extra bones on many skirts), but it isn't usual.

LD1

I didn't realize that two people were answering my questions. 

Richard, thanks for the clarification.

Andya, thanks for your help too. BTW: the change in colors is my next concern. The bones start out red, and if I drag the arrow widget up for the tiny thigh bone, a larger yellow bone appears - leaving the tiny red bone (you can see it at the top of the shin bones in my screenshot). And when I click off of the bones, the newly enlarged yellow bone turns grey. On top of that, when I bend the thigh, the grey bones of the shin and foot move with the bend, but the red bones only move a little ways (see the screenshot). This seems confusing, but at least it is bending now.