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Hard Graft for Casual Craze

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  • zombietaggerungzombietaggerung Posts: 3,853
    L'Adair said:
    zombietaggerung said:

    @L'Adair I don't suppose you had any luck dforcing the suspenders? I'm curious if they can be made to fall off the shoulders.

    I didn't even try.

    I spent days working on the Lumberjack Outfit, with at least half that time on the suspenders. There are details that use metal ring and buckles in the middle of the straps. Using weight maps, you can keep the strap from separating from the metal bits, but those same weights also keep the strap and bits from draping at all.

    I think you'd have much better luck using dForms and creating a morph to move the strap after posing the figure. Just be sure and change the Influence, in the Parameters, to Weight Map. Remove all weight from the map, select the area you want to move with the Geometry Editor tool, and then apply your weights. This will give you fairly good control over the movement.

    All right, thanks. I'll give that a shot.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634

    L'Adair thx that is a more positive note on the future and for deforce on the whole. Cool 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,351
    L'Adair said:
    zombietaggerung said:

    @L'Adair I don't suppose you had any luck dforcing the suspenders? I'm curious if they can be made to fall off the shoulders.

    I didn't even try.

    I spent days working on the Lumberjack Outfit, with at least half that time on the suspenders. There are details that use metal ring and buckles in the middle of the straps. Using weight maps, you can keep the strap from separating from the metal bits, but those same weights also keep the strap and bits from draping at all.

    I think you'd have much better luck using dForms and creating a morph to move the strap after posing the figure. Just be sure and change the Influence, in the Parameters, to Weight Map. Remove all weight from the map, select the area you want to move with the Geometry Editor tool, and then apply your weights. This will give you fairly good control over the movement.

    Perhaps a dynamic add-on to keep the ends together and split the metal parts to props to parent to Rigid Follow Nodes?

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    Richard Haseltine said:
    L'Adair said:
    zombietaggerung said:

    @L'Adair I don't suppose you had any luck dforcing the suspenders? I'm curious if they can be made to fall off the shoulders.

    I didn't even try.

    I spent days working on the Lumberjack Outfit, with at least half that time on the suspenders. There are details that use metal ring and buckles in the middle of the straps. Using weight maps, you can keep the strap from separating from the metal bits, but those same weights also keep the strap and bits from draping at all.

    I think you'd have much better luck using dForms and creating a morph to move the strap after posing the figure. Just be sure and change the Influence, in the Parameters, to Weight Map. Remove all weight from the map, select the area you want to move with the Geometry Editor tool, and then apply your weights. This will give you fairly good control over the movement.

    Perhaps a dynamic add-on to keep the ends together and split the metal parts to props to parent to Rigid Follow Nodes?

    I'll give it a try and report back what I find.

     

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Perhaps a dynamic add-on to keep the ends together and split the metal parts to props to parent to Rigid Follow Nodes?

    I pulled out the bits and made them objects, then imported them back in and set them up with Rigid Follow Nodes. I even appllied the dynamic add-on to the bits. It didn't work. But now that I reread what you wrote, I'm thinking you meant to set the suspenders as a dynamic add-on… Back to the drawing board!

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,351
    L'Adair said:
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Perhaps a dynamic add-on to keep the ends together and split the metal parts to props to parent to Rigid Follow Nodes?

    I pulled out the bits and made them objects, then imported them back in and set them up with Rigid Follow Nodes. I even appllied the dynamic add-on to the bits. It didn't work. But now that I reread what you wrote, I'm thinking you meant to set the suspenders as a dynamic add-on… Back to the drawing board!

    I'm not sure how the set works - from your comment ealier about needing to keep the straps together I thought they were discontinuous, which is where a separate piece set as a Dyanmic Add-on could be used to tie them together. If they are continuous then ignore that part of my suggestion.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    Richard Haseltine said:
    L'Adair said:
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Perhaps a dynamic add-on to keep the ends together and split the metal parts to props to parent to Rigid Follow Nodes?

    I pulled out the bits and made them objects, then imported them back in and set them up with Rigid Follow Nodes. I even appllied the dynamic add-on to the bits. It didn't work. But now that I reread what you wrote, I'm thinking you meant to set the suspenders as a dynamic add-on… Back to the drawing board!

    I'm not sure how the set works - from your comment ealier about needing to keep the straps together I thought they were discontinuous, which is where a separate piece set as a Dyanmic Add-on could be used to tie them together. If they are continuous then ignore that part of my suggestion.

    You were correct up to a point; In the back, the tirangular gizmo hides the ends where they come together. In the front, the straps actually thread through the rings and loop back up, ending under the flattened rings. The leather bit at the end of the straps, going through the metal ring and the bits that hold onto the pants is itself a continuous loop. (Sorry, I don't know the correct terminology for the parts of suspenders.)

    What I found, applying the dForce Dynamic Surface Add-on to the suspenders, is they ended up in exactly the same position as those without any dForce modifiers. However, with add-on modifier, the shirt was able to intersect the suspenders. In the images below, the beige suspenders are conforming, the gray suspenders have the Dynamic Surface Add-on applied.

    Suspenders Front As Loaded - Conforming Suspenders Front Dynamic Surface Add-on Applied

    Notice the intersect, bottom right.

    Suspenders Back As Loaded - Conforming Suspenders Back Dynamic Surface Add-on Applied

    @zombietaggerung, I've no idea what look you are going for, but even using dForms, the suspenders with the Casual Craze outfit will be somewhat limited in their ability to fall down the arm due to the style of the back, with that "Y" in the back. The suspenders from the Lumberjack Outfit, (comes with either The Brute 8 bundles, if bought one of those,) has an "X" style that may be more conducive to falling off the shoulder. Sadly, it doesn't dForce any better than the Casual Craze suspenders. They are part of the pants, but you can remove those zones with the help of the Geometry Editor.

    Casual Craze Suspenders Back Style Lumberjack Outfit Suspenders Back Style

     

  • zombietaggerungzombietaggerung Posts: 3,853
    edited September 2018
    L'Adair said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    L'Adair said:
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Perhaps a dynamic add-on to keep the ends together and split the metal parts to props to parent to Rigid Follow Nodes?

    I pulled out the bits and made them objects, then imported them back in and set them up with Rigid Follow Nodes. I even appllied the dynamic add-on to the bits. It didn't work. But now that I reread what you wrote, I'm thinking you meant to set the suspenders as a dynamic add-on… Back to the drawing board!

    I'm not sure how the set works - from your comment ealier about needing to keep the straps together I thought they were discontinuous, which is where a separate piece set as a Dyanmic Add-on could be used to tie them together. If they are continuous then ignore that part of my suggestion.

    You were correct up to a point; In the back, the tirangular gizmo hides the ends where they come together. In the front, the straps actually thread through the rings and loop back up, ending under the flattened rings. The leather bit at the end of the straps, going through the metal ring and the bits that hold onto the pants is itself a continuous loop. (Sorry, I don't know the correct terminology for the parts of suspenders.)

    What I found, applying the dForce Dynamic Surface Add-on to the suspenders, is they ended up in exactly the same position as those without any dForce modifiers. However, with add-on modifier, the shirt was able to intersect the suspenders. In the images below, the beige suspenders are conforming, the gray suspenders have the Dynamic Surface Add-on applied.

    Suspenders Front As Loaded - Conforming Suspenders Front Dynamic Surface Add-on Applied

    Notice the intersect, bottom right.

    Suspenders Back As Loaded - Conforming Suspenders Back Dynamic Surface Add-on Applied

    @zombietaggerung, I've no idea what look you are going for, but even using dForms, the suspenders with the Casual Craze outfit will be somewhat limited in their ability to fall down the arm due to the style of the back, with that "Y" in the back. The suspenders from the Lumberjack Outfit, (comes with either The Brute 8 bundles, if bought one of those,) has an "X" style that may be more conducive to falling off the shoulder. Sadly, it doesn't dForce any better than the Casual Craze suspenders. They are part of the pants, but you can remove those zones with the help of the Geometry Editor.

    Casual Craze Suspenders Back Style Lumberjack Outfit Suspenders Back Style

     

    All right, thank you I really appreciate all your testing. I'll eventually probably get both of them and see if I can figure something out. I was thinking of something like this, except obviously on a man:

    8bc9e381797334eb33da66e3ba501be14f37e0344f755d13bbaba3581cb434beeff26e8365d2235b6037ffe00d98fb28ffb7162da1c3c830c4c1bce0e7855fc6.jpg
    842 x 670 - 72K
    Post edited by zombietaggerung on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,351
    L'Adair said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    L'Adair said:
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Perhaps a dynamic add-on to keep the ends together and split the metal parts to props to parent to Rigid Follow Nodes?

    I pulled out the bits and made them objects, then imported them back in and set them up with Rigid Follow Nodes. I even appllied the dynamic add-on to the bits. It didn't work. But now that I reread what you wrote, I'm thinking you meant to set the suspenders as a dynamic add-on… Back to the drawing board!

    I'm not sure how the set works - from your comment ealier about needing to keep the straps together I thought they were discontinuous, which is where a separate piece set as a Dyanmic Add-on could be used to tie them together. If they are continuous then ignore that part of my suggestion.

    You were correct up to a point; In the back, the tirangular gizmo hides the ends where they come together. In the front, the straps actually thread through the rings and loop back up, ending under the flattened rings. The leather bit at the end of the straps, going through the metal ring and the bits that hold onto the pants is itself a continuous loop. (Sorry, I don't know the correct terminology for the parts of suspenders.)

    What I found, applying the dForce Dynamic Surface Add-on to the suspenders, is they ended up in exactly the same position as those without any dForce modifiers. However, with add-on modifier, the shirt was able to intersect the suspenders. In the images below, the beige suspenders are conforming, the gray suspenders have the Dynamic Surface Add-on applied.

    Suspenders Front As Loaded - Conforming Suspenders Front Dynamic Surface Add-on Applied

    Notice the intersect, bottom right.

    Suspenders Back As Loaded - Conforming Suspenders Back Dynamic Surface Add-on Applied

    @zombietaggerung, I've no idea what look you are going for, but even using dForms, the suspenders with the Casual Craze outfit will be somewhat limited in their ability to fall down the arm due to the style of the back, with that "Y" in the back. The suspenders from the Lumberjack Outfit, (comes with either The Brute 8 bundles, if bought one of those,) has an "X" style that may be more conducive to falling off the shoulder. Sadly, it doesn't dForce any better than the Casual Craze suspenders. They are part of the pants, but you can remove those zones with the help of the Geometry Editor.

    Casual Craze Suspenders Back Style Lumberjack Outfit Suspenders Back Style

     

    An Add-On collides only with the vertices, so if you use it on a visible item it will give poke-through. The idea is to use it as an invisible add-on, linking pieces that would otherwise come apart (e.g. to hold a shirt closed) or adding a reinforcing strut internally (e.g. to keep a pipe or cord round). I wasn't suggesting making an existing part an add-on but creating a very simple add-on to link loose ends, if needed.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    Richard Haseltine said:

    An Add-On collides only with the vertices, so if you use it on a visible item it will give poke-through. The idea is to use it as an invisible add-on, linking pieces that would otherwise come apart (e.g. to hold a shirt closed) or adding a reinforcing strut internally (e.g. to keep a pipe or cord round). I wasn't suggesting making an existing part an add-on but creating a very simple add-on to link loose ends, if needed.

    I have so much yet to learn! surprise laugh

    What I really want to learn is how to make something like the rings of the suspenders keep their shape so that the object can drape without distorting parts that should be rigid. I wonder… Okay, gonna try something else.

     

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    Well, my "something else" didn't work.

    I'm convinced dForce just isn't ready for something like the suspenders of either this product or the Lumberjack Outfit.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    @zombietaggerung, I wish I could have been more help.

  • zombietaggerungzombietaggerung Posts: 3,853
    L'Adair said:

    @zombietaggerung, I wish I could have been more help.

    It's quite all right. You have gone above and beyond what I could possibly expect. I really appreciate all the effort.

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