Better Female Armor
Swan
Posts: 134
I look at some of the women "armor" on this site, and I think 'High-heels? Torso and leg armor while wearing panties? Seriously?'
I'm shocked SJWs haven't come down hard on DAZ, to be honest.
That aside, how about we refer to a an actual historian, weapons, and armor expert (Youtube Video) about that torso armor and whether it should be fitted for boobs...
No.
A little more realism and practicality please.
Note to DAZ. Yesterday I spent $100 on DAZ3D.com. I spent three times that amount on Renderosity. While many of Renderosity's items are equally as and sometimes more ridiculous, turns out that site has a bit more in the way of realism as well in regards to Fantasy and Historical.
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Actually this, or variations on it, comes up with great regularity.
Do not confuse historical and fantasy armor. Fantasy armor may contain heels. Why not?
dForce Warrior Queen Outfit for Genesis 8 Female(s)
More or less historically correct armor for females.
BTW, about history. As I know women did not takes part in battles, so there were no women's armor at all. The only woman-warior I know is Jeanna d'Arc and I pretty much sure that she wore men's armor. So, the photo you attached with women chest armor is the same "heels" in fantasy costumes in Daz store. That's my opinion. :)
I like more realistic armor, or at least not boob/heel armor.
But... there's a bunch.
https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-high-paladin-for-genesis-8-females
https://www.daz3d.com/the-legend-for-genesis-3-and-8-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/knight-armor-for-genesis-3-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/alicia-armor-outfit-for-genesis-3-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/alruna
And those are just armors I happen to own.
More realistic- fantasy armor then?
I say you might need to do some kit-bashing to be fully covered, no pun intended.
https://www.daz3d.com/the-legend-for-genesis-3-and-8-female-s
Oh, he beat me to to it!
I think we would need to imagine FEMALE armor made by females!
And you know what, you might something real interesting.
It isn't a photo - it's a YouTube video and that's one of the frames (that is being shown as an example of unrealsitic armour).
Women in various cultures did partake in combat but it was unusual, and they most likely did not wear plate armor as commonly as depicted, although there were a few.
Interestingly enough, of those armors, the Alicia armor is probably the most realistic (though the boobs of the model herself might be a little oversized and not flexible enough)
-Contrary to popular belief, armors were NOT metallic colored during the middle ages. Knights dyed their armors, so it wouldn't rust. During the middle ages, that iron or steel armor was probably bright red or green or something. In the 19th century, it became vogue to scrub the (remaining) paint off and make those old armors all shiny for display.
-The above did NOT apply to chainmails, which would loose their flexibility from being painted. To protect chainmail from the elements, it was generally worn beneath the clothes and/or light armor paddings.
-Gold was *never* used for functional armor. It's too soft a metal, and parts would too easily tear off while fighting, or even from extreme movements by the wearer himself.
-Though slightly stronger as a metal, bronze and copper became in disuse very quickly once countries and tribes learned how to work iron. By the time they learned how to make steel, the use of copper and bronze for armor was non-existent.
Thanks for insights, Drip!
There is a thing called "suspension of disbelief". High heels in the woods and forest make absolutely no sense to me no matter what the context. And there are some really nice fantasy armours on the site that are ruined by putting high heels with the set with no option for a flat foot option ( which should become a standard practice). That Dforce Warrior Queen Outfit is a prime example. It makes an otherwise fairly realistic scenario look like bad cos-play.
A lot of us out here while we do fantasy renders aren't doing cheesecake.
Sorry for the recon. Was gone a while.
Why?
Because high-heels and armor fitted for boobs destroys any and all suspension of disbelief. This is especially true with Fantasy where some kind of realism has to be established and adhered to in order for the Fantasy to be believable.
There is some realistic-ish armour. And there's armour made for males which can be fitted.
The thing is, a full set of armour takes a lot of time to make. PAs make items to sell here for a living, i.e., to make money. They're not necessarily here to change the world. If boobalicious armour with stiletto heels sells better, more of that's gonna get made.
You took a years sabbatical because high heel and boob armour traumatised you?
I doubt whether an imperical difference exists that establishes boob armor and high heels sell more than realistic armor with sensible footwear. Truth is, I would imagine the opposite to be true. Lots of game developers out there would turn a more serious eye towards DAZ were the products less horny teen style.
Indeed! Takes a long to recover from such trauma. LOL
Actually, work got in the way. Badly run company with a terrible manager at IT meant 60/70 hour work weeks to make up for everyone else's mistakes. I ultimately had to switch jobs ito get back a normal life. Been writing as of late and am using DAZ to set up scenes for my publishing website. Because of the unrealistic clothing and various other issues, I only use the DAZ renders to give a professional artist an idea what I want. They then create the actual art. I've attached an exampe.
See, been thinking about this and realized it's what bothers me, the reasoning of "need to make money". It's a crap excuse given people are complaining about it in the forums and there's an attitude around the gaming and 3D industry that DAZ products are marketed towards the beef-beaters, etc. Just goes to reason that if the designers of what would be otherwise awesome products took a gamble on a bit more realism, that gamble would pay off. DAZ Studio and its models have come a VERY long way. It's disappointing to see that progress nullified.
I find it amusing, and I have a couple of armours, and I've never bought any with heals, but they have due to bundles crept in.
I don't use the hells.
I did once work on an image that was a parody of the genre but could not get both the look and my intent conveyed - maybe I'll revisit.
You don't like heals, others like heals and they presumably sell nearly as well as bathrooms. :)
One of the reasons I'm considering teen raven is the 'armout' with flat heals.
It is what it is.
TBH, I am just happy to see a wide selection of female armor. I want historical and fantasy alike. ATM I own -all- female armor sets for g8 on Daz3d and Render with 1 or two exceptions due to quality concerns, and will continue to gooble them up as long as the model is not painfully bad.
Give us realistic armor, give us fantasy armor - give us armor in general <3
HD REAL ARMOR PHOTOS TO USE FOR RESEARCH: https://www.facebook.com/scaarmory/ - this is my facebook project, where I go around taking detailed photos of armor for artists to study and learn from. By all rights, go here and check out some real-world armor to get some inspiration :)
Admittedly, the heels bother me less than the boob armor. It's not ideal, finding and selecting other footwear that only somewhat go with the armor, but even so, it's an easier workaround than managing to make the boob armor realistic (assuming the armor you find doesn't expose the more vulnerable areas of a woman's body). Should be noted that when I say armor, I mean light, medium, and heavy and not just metal. I'm speaking about protective wear in general. And while the stuff that's somewhat historic isn't exaggerated for sexiness, oftentimes the Fantasy stuff is.
As an example of Fantasy, I would have bought the Rogue Element Outfit in a second had it been at least somewhat practical. The design elements are impressive, but that design is ruined because the outfit is nothing more than lingerie masking as protective wear. The top is a corset, there are no pants under the leggings, and those platform boots...yikes. I can't say how often I've come across instances like this that would have otherwise been a sell had there been at least an attempt at practicality.
Conversely, regarding something that semi-borrows from history, there's the Rebel Rogue Outfilt, which I did buy. Ideally, though, a full top would have been a great optional item. It's a pain to match up additioinal clothing and sneak it under what you see here on the right. At least, however, those goofy belts are optional and the outfit itself doesn't scream sex, but instead, hints strongly at practicality.
Cool resource!
One poor selling product might mean someone misses a car payment. A string of them means someone might lose a house.
It's unreasonable to expect someone to essentially put their lives on the line on a leap of faith based mostly on hearsay.
It's been noted many times that what people say they want and what they will actually buy very often do not match.
Now, personally? I love the idea of more, practical, female armor. Heels make me cringe. I want more male content, and so on.
Buuuut if we want to see more of those sorts of things, the market has to actually reward them.
WIthout risk, there is no reward. That's true of any venture. But there are ways of minimizing risk.
Sure, it's smart to go for what you can count on (a base number of sales with a proven product style), but that's obviously limited. Of course, it doesn't have to be a case of either or. Why not make variations of the product?
Take the Rogue Element Outfit I posted earlier. It's apparent a lot of love and effort went into making that outfit. However, it's marketability is stunted, so profits are likewise stunted. Why not charge a few dollars more and include proper boots, full leggings, and perhaps mail beneath the corset? Or what about two versions? Extend the corset to become a full cuirass and offer that along with proper boots and full leggings as a separate product. Yes, it's extra work, but it would mean a chance at extra sells without having to put all the eggs in one basket so to speak.
You say hearsay. I say it's a reach to classify people openly asking for something or stating why they don't go to DAZ as hearsay. :)
There are modellers who do commissions. I'm not sure of Daz's policies, but it might be possible to commission that kind of armour, purchasing all rights, and then retail it through Daz or Rendo, or wherever. That way PAs wouldn't need to take risks, and those who believe in the commercial potential of that kind of armour would reap the profits.
Out of curiosity, Fuengirola, how much of your own livelihood would you be willing to gamble because Some Internet Guy said you should?
If I hadn't listened to Some Internet Guy, I wouldn't be where I am today. I'd still be playing pool for a living instead of working as a software engineer. I also wouldn't have gotten into web design at just the right time. I very much gambled my livelihood and spent many sleepless nights learning a bunch of technologies on my own. The latter sometimes still holds true today. Tech industry is always changing as does its technologies. The latest job I've taken demanded I learn React, TypeScript, and gain a Dell Developer certification.
I especially listen when more than one Internet Guy states something, like here in this thread. And it's not difficult to determine what game developers think of Daz and why they don't utilize it. It's a simple matter of asking them. Point being (and to use a store metaphore), if I have customers who ask for Product B, I stock Product B. Of course, that doesn't mean I sacrifice Product A and lose other customers. Same applies here. No one's asking for Daz producers to abandon existing, profitable products. They're asking for variations on those existing products towards the interest of gaining more sells. That hardly seems a defeating endeavor.
Via these very forums, I once tried to find someone to work on commission and got no takers. I even offered for the Daz creator to resell the products for additional profit beyond what I would pay for them to create it. I got no takers, which is how I ended up using Daz as one way of relaying what I have in mind to a professional artist who recreates my visions. I'm quite happy doing that. The non-CGI artwork is more emotive and superior to 3D renders, there's no risk of turning off someone through Uncanny Valley, and I don't have to worry about finding just the right scene/environment, hairstyle, and historically accurate or practical Fantasy costumes on Daz. I either provide detailed descriptions along with the Daz example and/or basic sketchs of the Fantasy apparel and weapons or provide images of historically accurate hairstyle, apparel, and weapons (depending on what's in the scene).
The point I'm trying to make here isn't for my benefit.
Well I know of one DAZ artist who did a commission for a book cover of a dragon figure that is utterly awesome that nobody but the client can use, so it does indeed happen, I think it comes down to negotiation of price and the artist, so I do know it has happened.
It was Uwe Jarling who is J-Art on Renderosity
Do you have any actual evidence of the legions of game builders crying out for non-sexed up female armour (I'm not calling it "historically accurate", because there's really no such thing). I did a Google image search for "medieval video game woman," and while I admit the results were less depressing that I'd feared, they still tended towards the low cut, boob plate end of the spectrum.
When did I say legions?
I didn't. I said better historical accuracy and attempts at practicality in historical and Fantasy apparel (especially that meant to protect) over sexiness would increase sells and ultimately compel game devs to consider DAZ more seriously. Evidence of the former exists by people making requests in this thread and others in DAZ's own forum (among others).
As for the game devs...should I get transcripts of the conversations or record them? lol I know several game developers, all of whom had pretty much the same response when it came to DAZ, which I've covered prior to this comment. If I was a DAZ creator, though, I believe I would go to the effort of doing some research and coming to my own conclusion. I would likewise go to the effort of offering variations of my products that would increase their marketability (meaning I would stick with what I know sells and offer alternate versions that are more practical and believable vs. go one way or the other).
My desire and requirements for historical accuracy is not the same as that required by games (which would seriously differ depending upon said game: for instance, Kingdom Come: Deliverance vs. a Fantasy game), which is to say there is such a thing as historically accuracy. Just depends on where you look. So I'm not surprised by your search results given the criteria you used. You'd have to go a bit more specific for better and more accurate results. I've attached some decent examples from some fairly recent Fantasy games simply by searching for female RPG characters. Point is you can still create attractive and cool-looking apparel and make it more or less seem practical.