Stiffler's Mom (Stiff Cloth using dForce)
algovincian
Posts: 2,576
Been playing around with dForce trying to squeeze some stiffer cloth out of it. Here's the latest test (simmed at 30fps but rendered slo-mo to make it easier to see):
Eagerly awaiting the next DS beta to see how dForce has evolved before going any further. If anybody else is working on anything similar, please post - I'd love to see it!
- Greg
Post edited by algovincian on
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Comments
ROFL I had a good laugh over the thread's title. :)
Cool experiments, Greg! Those kinds of settings would be good for things like big floppy hats, canvas covers, tarps, and maybe stiffer clothing like some jackets. Care to share some of your settings? If not, I understand. :)
But....you didn't tell us what settings you used to achieve the three different results.
The dForce settings are identical for all three fabric squares (the defaults). It's the geometry that has changed in each instance.
I've been working on a somewhat different approach to modelling clothes and draping them in DS using dForce. My first test was a simple t-shirt, but I feel I'm ready to take what I've learned and graduate to some more complex designs that would include a collar (enter the Stiffler's Mom tests).
Exact same shirt in all 3 cases with the exception of varying a single parameter (not a dForce parameter, but one in the script that sets up the sim):
- Greg
Oh wow! I love the t-shirt draping in the last render! Very cool! :) I hope that the script will be available -that looks like something that could really improve the look of 3D clothing and bring some much needed added realism to the table.
Thanks, Diva - one of the main goals of the exercise was to create finer detail in the folds, which is something not typically seen in dForce products in the store.
The script actually came about as an answer to the somewhat tedious process of setting up the sim each time I wanted to test a new geometry structure. The process actually isn't all that bad, but it got tedious when doing it over and over.
There were a couple of other benefits, too: My memory is garbage and I kept forgetting steps in the setup and only realizing it after running the sim (now I don't have to remember). Also, it helped me sort of fall into the habit of running the sim on a scene that only contained the character and the clothes being simmed - nothing else. Although I have no hard data, this practice has seemingly lead to fewer crashes when running a large number of simulations back to back.
On another note that relates to your hope about the script being made available, the shirt in the example is not a piece of conforming clothing. Not sure if it's a hard/fast rule or not, but I'm fairly certain that DAZ is not interested in dForce items that do not also conform. Is this your understanding as well?
- Greg
I don't know anything about conforming or non-conforming clothing, unfortunately. It's not something I've learned yet, but I hope to learn how to make clothing and learn all that terminology. :) It's greek to me at the moment. lol
Can any other PAs, or anybody else for that matter, chime in on DAZ's policy about whether or not dForce clothes must be conforming or not? It's not that I couldn't make them conforming, but rather that the drape comes out worse if I do . . .
- Greg
Clothes should comform unless there's a good reason for them not to (things that can't work at all as rigged, conforming outfits).
To me, they should conform but only for the bones so basic posing will work. There are allot of flowy types of garmets that never EVER looked good unless they were run through sims and those sims were saved out as morphs for said garmet. Other than that some of the older conformed items always looked a bit weird to me. Now with d-Force a basic rig mixed with d-Force give a very natural drape for billowy sleeves and skirts, etc....
Capes on the other hand, still trying to wrangle that sort of mesh into a workable solution. Conforming one and then changing the shape of the character unless it's got EVERY conceivable morph built into it will look really messed up and then posing the character... it's sort of awful. LOL
May look cool, but (to me) doesn't make any sense for that garment and that pose. So the paramter change alone doesn't seem like a general solution.
Thanks for taking the time to comment, @fastbike1. I fully realize it's not perfect (not even close), but I'm also not aware of any other clothes that let you pick the size (tight vs. loose fitting, etc.). If you're aware of any, please let me know as I'd be interested in buying them.
Also, the pose is called "Fashion Model Pose 05" and it's part of the G3F Starter Essentials, so we all have it. If you have the time, maybe you could dress/pose a G3F character in a loose fitting t-shirt that you think does make sense so I can see where I'm going wrong.
- Greg
I know what you're saying, @RAMWolff. Native physics simulations in DS is a game changer for me - can't wait to see what the next iteration looks like!
I'll have to run some more experiments with the shirt being a conformer before running the sim.
- Greg
As always, thank you for taking the time to respond, Richard. After thinking about it a bit, as it stands now in its current incarnation, I can't think of a way for the script/sim to perform their intended functions if the cloth conforms. I'll keep trying.
- Greg
lov lov lov these. Really like the second one. very graceful and fluid. Good luck! Can you describe your work flow for using dforce? As you say, it can get very tedius.
Thanks for the feedback, @magnumdaz. I use an animated drape with a short initialization period. There's much more going on in the timeline other than simply going from a t-pose to the desired pose. This is part of what the script handles and it plays a big role in the system I'm developing.
Sorry I can't be more specific than that, but I'm a little hesitant to go into more detail as everything is still in a state of flux, and there is the possibility that it might some day become an actual product (instead of being yet another one of my hobby side projects) . . . who knows?
- Greg
Really nice, I too like the 2nd one as it is very realistic.
Thanks, @deathbycanon. I love these simulations - so much fun! Here's a few more of a couple different characters in some more poses:
As you can see, there's probably a bit too much fabric in the shoulders (this was noticable in the first round of images, too). This can be corrected using adjustment morphs but I just didn't bother to do so and re-sim since these are just tests. For the 2 images of the smaller/younger girl, the global parameter was used to make the shirt smaller and the shirt length was also increased via a morph.
The whole system really is quite flexible.
- Greg
That looks great! I want this! :D
I would totally get this if it was a product too. Looks amazing!
Good to hear I’m on the right track! I think I would need to make some sort of bottoms to go with it if it's ever to become a product. I believe it was @SickleYield who mentioned DAZ not being interested in single separates, IIRC.
And then there's the whole non-conforming issue . . . after playing with this some more yesterday, I really can't see a way to keep all the functionality/flexibility of the system intact if it is made into a conformer. Here's another example which is an extreme case (as far as figure shape, shirt fit, and pose goes):
Little different render for me lol. Quick - somebody please pick her up!
Time to start thinking about the workflow for integrating other clothes into the sim, and getting the finished simmed clothes back into the original scene . . .
- Greg
This last one is phenomenal. Stretch between the knees, off shoulder drape, very nice. Reserving money now.
One shirt to rule them all.
I would buy just the shirt; I pass on items because they have more in the package which puts the price up - and so I wait till it lowers to the price I'm happy to pay just for the item I want. I don't tend to think: well I might use it. I have a library full of stuff that I still might use - good for Daz, bad for my wallet, wherever it happens to be hiding atm. :)
Glad to hear you liked it, @ewcarman. The plan is to make many more clothes once I (hopefully) get rid of all the kinks and nail down the workflow.
- Greg
Great looking shirt!
You could consider including two versions, one that conforms and one that follows your method.
I tested the effect of resolution on keeping cylinders stiff. You can find a write-up here. Also, effect of resolution on a cube is here.
That's fantastic!
My original idea was to come up with a clothing creation/sim workflow for my own internal use. Then, I started thinking with a little extra work, this could become a product - so why not? lol I'm finding out why . . . yet again.
That's an interesting idea, @RGcincy. Thanks for taking the time to suggest it - I appreciate it!
Thanks for the direct links to specific posts in your thread. For anyone who hasn't checked it out already, @RGcincy's thread chronicles a whole bunch of interesting dForce experiments. It's continuously updated and definitely worth a read.
I see that you've made a couple of shirts . . . have you tried making any stiff collars for them using what you've learned?
- Greg
Thanks, @deathbycanon. Wanted to do a little bit more of a complete render this time rather than just the colliders for figures that were used in the previous renders.
I was happy to finally use the Little Ones Mega Bundle by @3D Universe (https://www.daz3d.com/little-ones-mega-bundle-for-genesis-3) - got me a quick toddler w/hair out of the G3F base with no fuss. The expression is a canned one made by @Those Things (https://www.daz3d.com/biometric-expressions-screams-of-terror-and-battle-for-genesis-3-females).
As far as the sim goes, I used the tools I've been developing to size the shirt for the little girl. Had to tweak the pose a bit (adjusting for the figure shape and making sure the hands, etc. were on the ground).
All said and done, it took only a couple of minutes to set everything up. Ran the sim once and this was the result - woot!
- Greg
No I haven't. Odaa mentioned on my thread making a pirate shirt with a collar but was having some troubles with the collar. I don't know if that was resolved or not.
I saw "only dforce" cloth in other store. Your only dforce cloth looks awesome in comparison with that cloth, so if your method is not accepted here, there is alternative place for it.
Very interested even if it's the shirt alone. Looks really natural.