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Tell me about the problems you have converting footwear

Lyrra MadrilLyrra Madril Posts: 241
in The Commons

Hey,

I saw in the other thread that a lot of people are having trouble converting footwear. My response of course is to write up a tutorial specifically on shoe conversions, since they have some unique issues.

So ..

What shoes do you have the most trouble converting?

What source and destination figures are the most difficult?

Which source figures are converting from?

What are some other issues you have encountered converting shoes?

The more information I have, the more I can cover in the tutorial and hopefully get a comprehensive set of methods for converting shoes.

Thanks!

Lyrra

 

Comments

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,140

    High heel shoes for sure. Some load with the shoe part below the figure's feet. I'm sure some of it has to do with the fact that some generations have more bones in the foot (namely a heel bone) than others. Been wanting to learn how to fix things like this, but haven't had time.

    Laurie

  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,548
    edited June 2018

    Thank you for considering this!

    I have a lot of V4/M4/K4 clothes (btw, Lyrra, your K4 Gnome outfit still rocks!) and a moderate amount of Genesis 2 clothes that I'd like to convert to Genesis 3, including their shoes. I have a smaller amount of clothing/shoes for A3/H3 and Genesis 1 that I would like to convert.

    I have the most trouble with above-the-knee footwear (things like the old swashbuckler boots), anything with heels, and anything with complicated ornaments (my favorite example is the boots to Steampunk Sonja, unfortunately no longer in the store, which have a swirly metal deco element on the heel and the back of the shoe). I also occasionally have trouble with pointy-toed footwear. 

    I am pretty ignorant about rigging: I understand what bones are (including "ghost bones" for moving skirts) and that not setting the bones' area of influence correctly will cause the mesh to distort if the bone is bent, twisted etc. But I can't seem to do anything with rigging more complicated than "transfer bones from this figure to this figure." 

    Post edited by Odaa on
  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    Let me know which shoes and I will see how my method handles them if I also have the shoe. I will try and post a screenshot and settings I used to convert :)

    Unfortunately I have neither the steampunk Sonja boots nor the swashbuckler boots.

    I have had much success with Lany Shoes as well as the siren outfit boots. (both heals)

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,558

    I would kill for a commercial product/script that would seamlessly convert any heel product from previoes generations to G8

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,333
    edited June 2018

    I have Leopard Shoes for V4 which I have never been able to convert to any Genesis character - the mesh completely warps in addition to the toes poking out above the sole.

    The boots on V4 (left) and on Genesis (right).

    V4 Leopard on G1.jpg
    742 x 868 - 74K
    Post edited by dracorn on
  • Lyrra MadrilLyrra Madril Posts: 241

    Well a one click solution is probably unfeasible.  However, I'm looking at classes of issues people run into and working out the best solution for each kind of issue. The goal is a sort of pick-your-path reference guide/tutorial.  General rule of thumb - any time you see a v4 shoe with an INJ pose, a foot pose or a HideFeet pose .. it is not going to autoconvert well

    For example the Leopard Shoes appear to be a classic case of shoes modeled to be used with the feet hidden, or perhaps a custom INJ morph.  Since the autoconvert expects the shoe to be shaped like the figures zero pose and shape, it will never convert any shoe well that isnt in exactly that place.  However, a great many v4 shoes are not zeroed, as I'm sure you all have found out.

    The market standard here these days is for the shoe mesh to fit in the zero position and then be posed into the wanted shape - this does make autoconversion work better, but gives the makers more headaches. Many shoes now actually load a pose at the same time as the shoe, but you don't see it happening.

    I just tried the swashbuckler boots and spurs a try going from V4 to Genesis.  The boots themselves went pretty cleanly on the legs - a little crunch on the soles.  The spurs however have a custom bone for the spinny part, and with autoconvert that is lost as well as some deformation.  The boots I would use Hex to smooth out, and the spurs probably need to be manually converted and the custom bone recreated (if I really want the spinny thing).   

    I think I'm going to have to include a section on the more advanced weightmap, JCM and morph creation though for store ready conversions.  So this may not end up being a free tutorial :(

    Lyrra

     

     

  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,548
    edited June 2018
    Lyrra Madril said:

    Well a one click solution is probably unfeasible.  However, I'm looking at classes of issues people run into and working out the best solution for each kind of issue. The goal is a sort of pick-your-path reference guide/tutorial.  General rule of thumb - any time you see a v4 shoe with an INJ pose, a foot pose or a HideFeet pose .. it is not going to autoconvert well

    For example the Leopard Shoes appear to be a classic case of shoes modeled to be used with the feet hidden, or perhaps a custom INJ morph.  Since the autoconvert expects the shoe to be shaped like the figures zero pose and shape, it will never convert any shoe well that isnt in exactly that place.  However, a great many v4 shoes are not zeroed, as I'm sure you all have found out.

    The market standard here these days is for the shoe mesh to fit in the zero position and then be posed into the wanted shape - this does make autoconversion work better, but gives the makers more headaches. Many shoes now actually load a pose at the same time as the shoe, but you don't see it happening.

    I just tried the swashbuckler boots and spurs a try going from V4 to Genesis.  The boots themselves went pretty cleanly on the legs - a little crunch on the soles.  The spurs however have a custom bone for the spinny part, and with autoconvert that is lost as well as some deformation.  The boots I would use Hex to smooth out, and the spurs probably need to be manually converted and the custom bone recreated (if I really want the spinny thing).   

    I think I'm going to have to include a section on the more advanced weightmap, JCM and morph creation though for store ready conversions.  So this may not end up being a free tutorial :(

    Lyrra

     

     

    Hmm. Now I'm wondering if I conflated swashbuckler boots in my mind with either Zetta boots (no longer in the store) or the ones from the Leon outfit. As far as a paid tutorial goes, I am open to that. Thank you again for looking into this.

    Post edited by Odaa on
  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914
    edited June 2018

    Load up your G8 figure and deselect it. I used the G8F dev load (so no textures)
    Load up your shoes In my example I have the Wicked Footware 002
    position and pose your shoes so they are lined up with G8's default pose. Do this by expanding the node for the shoe/s and adjusting the side to side, bend and twist for the invisible thigh, shin and foot bones for the shoe.

    In this example, I set the

    thigh bone to bend 1.5, twist 8.5, Side-side 6

    shin bone bend 0.5

    foot bone bend -51.04, twist 1

    toes bone  - I found not adjusting the toes at all works better (a couple of the screenies I had adjusted the toes before the conversion but went back and redid it)

     
    Now go to edit->figure->rigging->convert figure to prop
    parent the shoe props to G8


    then go to edit->object->rigging->convert prop to figure
    the defaults should work fine (Triax weight map and with Inherit skeleton of parent checked)
    click ok
    fit shoes to G8 using unsupported. (I also added a smoothing modifier to remove the little bit of pokethrough on the side of the foot)

    If needed use the weight map brush to remove weights from the heel of the shoe by selecting the foot node of the shoe, hold alt and paint it back to grey, then do the same thing with the toes nodes.

    Load G8.png
    1920 x 1080 - 501K
    Load Shoes.png
    1920 x 1080 - 543K
    Adjust.png
    1920 x 1080 - 498K
    Convert.png
    1920 x 1080 - 468K
    Fit.png
    1920 x 1080 - 511K
    Cleanup.png
    1920 x 1080 - 345K
    Post edited by kaotkbliss on
  • Lyrra MadrilLyrra Madril Posts: 241

    Thank you for the tutorial Kaotkbliss - but I specifically asked  about the problems people have converting footwear

    LM

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    Yes, but for me using the method above, I no longer have problems converting footware :)

  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,548

    kaotbliss: that's interesting. I might try that with the shoes from Cashmere (another uncooperative favorite) and see how that goes. The boots from Y spiri might make another good guinea pig: they were in the weekly freebie consignment recently and relatively a lot of people have them.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,151

    The magic must be in figuring out the right thigh, shin and foot bends and twists. I cannot get the tall leg part of the shoe and the flat foot part of the shoe to both "fit". 

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    First thing I always do is adjust the thigh bone side-side until it's pretty close to evenly in the middle of the footware from a front-on view. Then I adjust the bend to get it as close as I can, if the angle is too great, I up the bend some more, then move on down to the shin bone and bend that.

    Once I have the foot lined up with the shoe, I do the final edits with the foot node using twist, bend and side-side (which can then make me go back and adjust the thigh and shin)

    It doesn't have to be perfect, as long as it's close it should work.

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