What captivates a gallery viewer ?
AJ2112
Posts: 1,417
I know it's all about preferance, but I've always wondered what captivates viewers at galleries, facial features, colors, realism, post work, etc..... I see lot's of scenes that are amazing to me, but hardly any likes or 0. Majority of the scenes that are popular are post work images, but to me that's not 3D created, it's photo manipulation, scenes are being created by 3D sofware, then post worked in photo/art programs. Daz gallery should be about Daz creations only, just my opinion. Although I know how to post work, I don't upload any post work scenes to gallery. I don't know, maybe I'm just to uptight about 3D, and it's unfair popularity. Post work should be used to enhance, make color corrections, light corrections, etc.... not create. There should be some type of filter system for non and post work scenes. I thought Daz was about creating/rendering scenes, using Daz content only. A lot of Daz users are discouraged from uploading rendered scenes. I see a lot of wonderful renders, at art section, that never make it to gallery, users prefereance. But I believe a lot of users are discouraged, cause I once was, when I first began, noticing a lot of beginner renders completely ignored, gallery can be used to encourage, inspire, etc..... as well.
Just saddens me, that many people put in a lot of hard work creating scenes, don't get any recognition, encouragement, inspiration, support, etc..... I would use some examples, but do not desire to upset scene creator. I love to view Daz gallery, but all I see in top recent image is post work, a few non post work will pass through once in awhile. I can see plenty of art at other forums, Photoshop, Corel draw, etc.... I'll use my image for example. Is the image Daz created/post work or created using art program ? I just desire to encourage people, to take time to view non post work, beginner rendered scenes, etc.... Sorry for writing a book.
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Comments
Personally I prefer inclusive galleries. I get that you don't like postwork, and don't think it belongs, but I and many others like it. If you want to encourage the art of non-postwork artists, by all means, do so. But, the store sells postwork tools, and so images with postwork most certainly do belong here.
@OP: I don't get why you think postwork should not be allowed aside from corrections. As to what makes a gallery image popular? Really close up face portraits with oversaturated lighting or butts. Really, that's it.
I like postworked images too, although truthfully like the renders without postwork as well. All the postworked images also have that 'same samey' look to them that some complain that non-postworked images have although it's a different sort of 'same samey'. That's not to say many postworked images aren't good but they aren't a cure all either.
Postwork mostly means blurring + color & contrast enhancement and often change of hue + pasted on layers of special effects or backgrounds. It's very effective because DAZ Studio is limited in how much real 3D models it can render. I just canceled a render my computer wasn't handling well in DAZ.
As far as you image goes it's been postworked but I won't go to the trouble of looking for all the different methods used. Looks sort of like a Vue + DAZ 3D + Postwork image in a nutshell. It's very pretty and I'd like it if I saw it in the gallery.
Hi Serene, understand exacty what you share, you know I'm a fan of your Sci fi scenes
It's all preferance, we all have the freedom to choose. Nothing wrong with post work, to enhance scenes, create cartoon, comic style, etc.... Not all but a lot, over use post work. Just sharing my thoughts. I do not have power or control over what goes on at Daz or any forum, unless I create my own. I just feel to many scene renders are overlooked, awhile back someone started a thread at Art section, think it was Richard not sure, similar to what I share, sharing scenes that are amazing, but do not get any recognition, so I am not alone, but very vocal 
Rofl ! you got that right AlienRender, I agree faces and butts. I'm not stating post work shouldn't be used, I just feel post work art shouldn't be popular choice amongst 3D artist, same type of art can be viewed all over the internet. What I consider non post work characters is, characters I use in Xbox one games, or animated characters in movies. Such as Rorke from Call of duty. Guess I'll have to show some examples of what I consider 3D.
Call of duty game scene
Well that sort of scene can be created in DAZ though too when you have that much blur away from the focus of the main subject. And there are plenty of men and women with guns in the DAZ Gallery and if you include other weapons besides guns they outnumber the face & butt portraits pretty easily. Add in huge man-eating beasts such as a tigers, lions, wolves, dragons or so on and a woman in a bikini carrying a sword & you have a motif there as popular all by itself as simple face portraits in the DAZ Studio.
And lastly Legends of the Gaurdian, examples I share is 3D creation to me. What does Daz homepage state Daz3D - Model, render, animate. Does not state Daz3D and Art. Many will agree, many will disagree. Just sayin.
More than anything else, I look for originality in an image. It doesn't have to be perfect, technically, and most of us are limited to what's on the market as far as what we use, so it comes down to how originally an artist uses the tools and products available to them. Realistic, fantasy, cartoon, doesn't matter, as long as it's more interesting than the usual sexy young things in skimpwear, or a character just smiling/pouting in dead centre of the image.
As a current example, look at the work of 3CPO in the Galleries, though there are other great artists, too, of course.
Thanks for feedback/compliment friend. I will reveal how image was created after 24 hours.
Well, your absolutely correct. I am to lazy, don't have the knowledge, or don't have enough time to create massive scenes. Actually, what sparked my intrest in 3D was movie Legends of the gaurdian. I desired to create similar scenes to movie, but lack the knowledge,skills, finances at the moment
In my opinion, the best postworked images are where you don't notice the postwork.
Hi Butch, although I never used any postwork in any of my renders, cept Dolphins using Ron's water brush and Death Stalker, I can agree with that statement.
I like all sorts of images. I tend to prefer postworked Images. I don’t agree at all that postwork should be curbed, more subtle or barely there or samey. I believe that should be for the artist to decide. And is in the eye of the beholder in how they perceive it.
The problem I have with what you are saying is not that you have a preference but that you are saying other art specifically not to your taste doesnt belong or should be discouraged. That I will never agree with.
How art is created is up to the individual. After all, I saw a video of elephant drawing and people actually buy it I guess. I don't do post work but I see the value and I am attempting to learn it.
Honestly, these types of posts irritate me, where someone uses their opinion to look down on others, especially when the gallery contains images from people just starting. It really makes people look bad when they do it. It's not anyone's place to try to define what art is, how people do it, etc.
It's their artwork and the proper respect to that should be given. These threads aren't not going to change anyone's opinion, so it's best to concentrate on one's own art. The forums should be used as a place of learning, not a place of complaining.
There are threads that have existed that give tips on rendering, this effort should be used there to help others in their artwork.
There is also an entire subgallery that is for artwork at https://www.daz3d.com/forums/categories/art-studio
Hi friend, well, guess I was wrong for stating an opinion, don't cha think ? Believe you completely misunderstood what I was sharing. I agree thrreads such as mine, rarely changes one's opinion. No flame war intended, peace.
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I did not misunderstand, which is why I gave you the link to the art forums for actually sharing your tips rather than discuss your dislike of postwork. This is what the forum is for, if you want to encourage people to not use postwork, showing them your methology is the best way to do it.
Just an opinion, as I'm not an artist or anything resembling one...
This is about computer generated art... DAZ sells the tools and assets to creat the art, what you make from it, and how you assemble that art is the artist's vision and shouldn't really be limited to what the rendering software is capable of. Limiting galleries to only rendered images with no post work, is sorta like a real brick and mortar gallery only accepting work that is in oil paint or acrylic and only using traditional brushes on traditional canvas. Or perhaps a better example would be a photo gallery that only accepted photos that were traditional 35mm film, that didn't use any filters or special lens, and were hand developed by the artist.
The rendering software is just one tool, and post work isn't just feeding the image into another program and adjusting a few sliders and it cranking out a perfect image... Good images using postwork requires skill in image editing software as well as rendering and scene set up.
Also to consider... If someone envisions a particular image or scene, but they are limited by the rendering capability of their computer, the assets, or their budget (certain effects or techniques may require certain assets or plugins they may not be able to afford)... Should that person abandon their vision or pursue another way or technique to achieve that?
If one were to follow the thinking of the CGI magazines a few years back, true CGI art would require one to model, rig, texture, set up the scene, set up poses, set up lighting and render the image with zero post work for it to really be worthy of any consideration, or else it as amateur dabblings.
Some people don't even consider any CGI "real art".
If one buys poses, lighting sets, special morphs, special plugins like say an instancing tool, isn't that sort of unfair to someone who maybe can't afford those things?... I've seen images that were probably fairly pricy to achieve, based on the stuff used to get the image to the desired effect.
Back in the 80s I worked as an art handler in NYC... We mainly dealt with the Pop Art scene, and I'm not a huge fan of pop art for reasons I shan't labor anyone with at the moment. A lot of the stuff I would see was quite "unusual" and "imaginative"... But one artist we dealt with painted amazingly realistic scenes of NYC. I respected her work a lot... But one day we went to her studio to pick up a collection and there in the middle of the room was a projector set up, casting a photo image onto a canvas with the image being traced onto the canvas.
I felt kinda disappointed, like she was cheating somehow... Even though she was using a photo she took.
Later that day I thought about it and I realized something I already knew... Back a couple of hundred years ago in the 1600s, quite a few well known artists used primitive projectors (Camera Obscura) to lay out sketches. Granted, they were limited to a live scene as photography didn't exist yet, but in essence it was the same thing.
She was a decent photographer and painter, why should I have a hang up if she was using modern tools to achieve what essentially celebrated artists of the past were hailed for?
If you ask "art experts", they'll tell you art isn't about the medium, the techniques, the tools or the methods... It's about the final results and how they make you feel... (Of course that's right up until they start telling you what qualifies as "art" and who "real artists" are, but that's not the point).
Thats all just something to consider if but for a moment, as none it is based on any sort of expert opinion or credentials on my part... I don't even participate in the galleries here (or anywhere) as anything I produce is used for personal nonsense and nobody really needs to have their eyeballs assaulted by it.
HI friend, I love all types of images to, as I shared before maybe I'm being to uptight about 3D. I believe a lot of people, have the wrong perception of 3D and art. I am a retired CAD drafter (Autocad), what I was taught is 3D is a representation of models or techical illustration. Any artist, modeler etc... can share whatever they desire. All I was trying to share is, excessive postwork is not 3D to me, it's art.
This is what I was taught. Three-dimensional model that displays a picture or item in a form that appears to be physically present with a designated structure. Essentially, it allows items that appeared flat to the human eye to be display in a form that allows for various dimensions to be represented. These dimensions include width, depth, and height.
Why? don't I just upload my photoshop art, I've created as 3D.
Past my bedtime, I need to crash, Lol !!!
You are absolutely correct, creation is up to individual. Only I do not view 3D as art, but a representation of models. Every 3D figure/object, was created by a modeler. Now if an individual desires to post work to create art, etc..... More power to em. I just feel there are a lot of people that actually work hard to illustrate models they create or purchase, no post work, that are being unrecognized due to post work graphics Wish I could share some examples. Why? does a post work image recieve 100 plus likes, while a render of a car recieves 0.
If a person has an answer, all feedback welcome
Before I close for the night, would be nice if someone could explain to me how rendering models is art ?
I don't agree with the whole postwork no postwork debate. It's like some folks think that using an image editor is like magic. It's not. We are all doing something we enjoy and want to share what we are doing.
If you're asking how to get likes, try being original or unique. Don't throw up the same image everyone else is doing. Make me love it or hate it. Make me feel something. Use that thumbnail thing in your gallery page to make an interesting snap shot that makes me curious and want to look.
The image you posted is very good. I don't know if this is postworked or not...really don't care either way. It's either interesting or not; shows skill or not; makes me feel or not.
Exactly in the same way that photographing real-word items is art.
Hmm.. us "old timers " can still remember when the "straight from the render engine" purists used to bang on about this subject constantly in the poser forum many years ago.
@AJ2112 May I assume you never watch any movies or listen to any music unless it is people singing raw occapella (sp?)
As a 3D animator/VFX producer, I can only wonder how the Anti-postwork purists manage to get through their day in a world where nearly nothing in the Visual communications and entertainment arena is presented in its Raw form.
Oh my how they must loathe those "cheaters" at ILM and Weta digital for bringing us such incredble visuals in popular films Like Starwars, Avatar,Planet of the Apes trilogy,Lord of the Rings trilogy etc etc.
all Courtesy of "postworked" effects composited onto raw footage footage.
IMHO, this extreme point of view seems to assumes that EVERYONE does the exact same type of "classic fine art "renders
and no one does any fantasy or sci fi.
This also assumes that gallery moderators have the means and the time to sniff out the "cheaters" trying to slip postworked images into the "Purists"section and establish some bloody ridiculous Appeals process to address the grievances of uploaders who wish to appeal having their image rejected for breaching"purity standards"
BTW nice Forum Avatar.
Ghost Rider from Marvel comics yes?
The Nicholas Cage film was rubbish even though
the Flame post work effects were quite well done for that era in VFX
A pity the purists could never create a proper Ghostrider render using only Daz studio as Daz studio does not have a particle/ flame system Like we have in Lightwave or Houdini or Blender.
Hi McGyver, very well written and explained. I understand all you shared. I am just one opinion of millions. I am not here to discredit anyone's work, this is the misconception everyone is getting, all I'm trying to share is, a lot of rendered scenes are overlooked, specially by beginners, cause post worked scenes are pleasant to the human eyes, including myself. But a lot of post work scenes get unrecognized as well, but post work appears to be the norm here.
It's just sad, a lot of people new to 3D, excited about a scene they create, want to show the world, and recieve 0 likes, no feedback etc...... cause they haven't post worked scene to beauty. A lot of non post work renders never make it to top images. So what I've learned is, unless a person learns post work, thier rendered scenes are not worthy ? I can upload rendered scene here 0 likes, same scene elsewhere, surprised by numerous compliments. Reason I rarely ever share scenes here, but visit the galleries in support of others.
Same as gluing broken plates onto plywood is, or painting an image onto canvas is, or capturing onto film, a natural landscape the universe created is.
Art, is mostly that which expresses a vision and captures it in a medium... It conveys some ideas, emotions or what have you, and presents them in some format that other sentient beings (and some rodents and birds) can process in an attempt to experience the same, or by proxy achieve a emotional response that can not be experienced in a similar manner else-wise.
Is that a real word... Else-wise?... It feels like something I made up... I've reached the point were I make up so many words I've lost touch with reality.
If you ask artists, they will tell you "anything" is art... Until something or someone offends them, then that is not art.
If you ask art critics, they'll say that "art" is what they say "art" is...
If you ask people in the art business, they will say art can be anything, but real art is what sells for a high price.
If you ask commercial artists they will say, it's about capturing the client's vision in a manner that is creative and gets the job done so you can move on to the next project.
If you ask an ordinary person looking at something someone else created, they will only be able to tell you if they enjoy it or not.
Art is either something fantastic that speaks to one's soul, that transcends ordinary words... Or it's just another humanistic construct vainly scrabbling to achieve something mortal man lacks... In short... "a lot of hooey".
I prefer to not think much about the criteria as it makes my left eyelid twitch and tends to put me in a bad mood.
This- and for me, it s about the image, not the method or the tools.
And not a single artist that 've spoken with in the fine Art brick and mortar galleries I've been in even considers that anything 3d is actually * Art * at all.
I really do not mean this in a snarky way, but when someone goes to the trouble to point out that they have used no postwork, I just don't get the point- it's like saying- I've got tools in my toolbox, but I don't use them.
If you actually looked at the first page of the gallery, you see that your statement is very inaccurate. There are mostly images that straight scenes. Again, this time could be used for sharing tips for people new to the community on lighting, etc, rather just telling someone it's bad without giving examples on how to do it.
...when the Daz forum enters the Twilight Zone. lol
You consider pure renders to be more "art" than postworked submissions and then cede that the "postworked art" gets more artistic appreciation.
And my favorite part is you uploaded an image that could be done 100% through photo manipulation.
Not to say that would disqualify it as "art" but to infer some sort of method as a more pure means of creating art is weird.
If anything, THE MORE you do would propel you in an artistic direction - therefore, by pure mathematics.....
Render < Render + Postwork
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But to answer the original question, which seems is a question you're not really here to ask......
What captivates a gallery viewer ?
For me personally, I need to be left with a question. Usually WHAT or HOW.
What did they use to create that or get that effect?
How did they achieve a certain look or atmosphere?
What made them create that kind of image?
How did they come to see things from that perspective?
If I know the answers to those questions, I tend not to be impressed and/or not hit the like button. As my skill and experience has increased, it takes more to get those questions out of me.
To understand the full circle, those are things, I used to ask myself....
How can I ....
What should I use to.....
That's all from the technical learning curve.
When you get enough of an arc going, you ask in an appreciative way and not in a limiting, judgemental way.
When that arc is about to become a circle, you stop WORRYING about how others create or work.
You look at the work they've created.
I made a video that speaks to this directly.