Fixing issues with existing models?

...so is it possible to fix issues in existing models in Hexagon? 

For example I recently purchased the 1968 EU Compact Car (basically an Austin Mini) however to my dismay I found many of the curved surfaces, including the wheel wells, wheels, and tyres, are not completely smoothed which shows up even with the render camera at a moderate distance.  My inclination is to just replace the wheels and tyres as well as clean up the edging around the wheel wells but not sure how these can be "cut" from the model to be worked on separately For examle I'd like to run an extra iteration or two of smoothing just on the wheel well mouldings without affecting the entire model's mesh).

Most of the more accurate models are expensive (upwards of 100$) and/or have rights restrictions as well as in formats that cannot be imported into Daz without conversion and remapping/retexturing.  The few free ones available have issues of their own even after converting to .obj, such as poorly modelled interiors, no interiors (or engine), or lack of detail.

BTW pardon any typos. for some reason spell check stopped working and I'm dyslexic.

Comments

  • ShawnDriscollShawnDriscoll Posts: 255

    I only work in OBJ format. So I'm always fixing other people's models using Hexagon that are in that format. If they're worth fixing. UVs will break when you delete/add polys to objects, or create objects out of other objects. Especially if using Hexagon.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 28,435

    ...so first I would have to convert the model from a cr2 to ,obj before I could actually work on it then?  Wouldn't that also lose all the rigging?

  • ShawnDriscollShawnDriscoll Posts: 255

    It's been awhile since I did any CR2 stuff. I'd say that rigging breaks whenever objects are re-modeled.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 28,435

    ...so it is possible then to edit the CR2.  Still not sure how to go about "disassembling" parts of an existing model.

  • ShawnDriscollShawnDriscoll Posts: 255

    Yes. There are editors for CR2 files. CR2s are text files, which helps.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 28,435

    ...I know more about modelling than scripting, and that isn't saying very much.  I would just like to know where to start from  and what tools to use. Thisis why I wonder of it will be easier to modify the base mesh if I convert it to a .obj first as I'll have to re skin and re rig it anyway.

  • MadaMada Posts: 788

    Have you tried to up the subdivision in DS? That will give you a smoother look and get rid of blockiness in round features.

  • Lyrra MadrilLyrra Madril Posts: 79

    cr2 is NOT a mesh format

    cr2 is a text file which contains rigging information, and morphs (if any), as well as information related to material zones and mesh group parts.   Inside the cr2 text someplace are two calls to find   "whatever.obj"    It is analogous to a .duf file which loads an item - that doesnt contain the mesh data either.

    "Whatever.obj" is probably resident in your runtime geometry folder, most likely in geometry / creator name / thingname /

    if you alter whatever.obj  the cr2 file will continue to call it, although it may not load properly if you have altered certain things

    I suggest a little background research on how these file formats are constructed before you start altering them, to avoid explosions and wasted time

    LM

     

     

  • ShawnDriscollShawnDriscoll Posts: 255
    edited June 10
    kyoto kid said:

    ...I know more about modelling than scripting, and that isn't saying very much.  I would just like to know where to start from  and what tools to use. Thisis why I wonder of it will be easier to modify the base mesh if I convert it to a .obj first as I'll have to re skin and re rig it anyway.

    I'm using Poser 6. The editor I have in my Poser folder is Cr2Editor151. But most of the time, I just edit existing CR2 files using Notepad++ for when I am modeling OBJ clothes for figures. I've never used Daz Studio.

    Post edited by ShawnDriscoll on
  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 414

    cr2 is NOT a mesh format

    cr2 is a text file which contains rigging information, and morphs (if any), as well as information related to material zones and mesh group parts.   Inside the cr2 text someplace are two calls to find   "whatever.obj"    It is analogous to a .duf file which loads an item - that doesnt contain the mesh data either.

    "Whatever.obj" is probably resident in your runtime geometry folder, most likely in geometry / creator name / thingname /

    if you alter whatever.obj  the cr2 file will continue to call it, although it may not load properly if you have altered certain things

    I suggest a little background research on how these file formats are constructed before you start altering them, to avoid explosions and wasted time

    LM

     

     

    Last I looked the .cr2 may contain the actual mesh (I think some poser version ten years or so back tended to save it that way) and would then need extracting to an .obj first. But in this case, looking at the file lists published in the knowledge base for other models by the same creator (as this particular one is missing there) the .obj is as usual in the geometry folder.

    To the OP: read the file list for the model, it got copied onto your harddrive together with the model and its readme when you installed it. There you find the .obj location.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 28,435
    Mada said:

    Have you tried to up the subdivision in DS? That will give you a smoother look and get rid of blockiness in round features.

    ...yes and it only messed up the rest of the model (which is a mix of quads tris and Ngons) as it applies the the entire mesh not just the troublesome parts .  Even rendering SubD didn't smooth those areas out.   I need to figure out how isolate the wheels and sections that need smoothing from the rest of the mesh so I can apply it to just those areas.  That is why I thought separating them from the model in Hexagon might help.as I could then apply smoothing just to those parts and reassemble it afterwards.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 28,435
    edited June 10

    cr2 is NOT a mesh format

    cr2 is a text file which contains rigging information, and morphs (if any), as well as information related to material zones and mesh group parts.   Inside the cr2 text someplace are two calls to find   "whatever.obj"    It is analogous to a .duf file which loads an item - that doesnt contain the mesh data either.

    "Whatever.obj" is probably resident in your runtime geometry folder, most likely in geometry / creator name / thingname /

    if you alter whatever.obj  the cr2 file will continue to call it, although it may not load properly if you have altered certain things

    I suggest a little background research on how these file formats are constructed before you start altering them, to avoid explosions and wasted time

    LM

     

     

    ...thank you yeah still learning the ropes of this stuff. Didn't realise I needed to go to the Geometry folder, I was just loading it through the bridge from Daz to Hex.

    I've had .3ds models "explode" before when importing them into Carrara.

    I wish there were more PDF tutorials as videos just don't work with me due to poor retention.

    I'm just looking to clean up the rough curves in the model, not make any major changes

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 28,435
    kyoto kid said:

    ...I know more about modelling than scripting, and that isn't saying very much.  I would just like to know where to start from  and what tools to use. Thisis why I wonder of it will be easier to modify the base mesh if I convert it to a .obj first as I'll have to re skin and re rig it anyway.

    I'm using Poser 6. The editor I have in my Poser folder is Cr2Editor151. But most of the time, I just edit existing CR2 files using Notepad++ for when I am modeling OBJ clothes for figures. I've never used Daz Studio.

    ...ahh I have Poser but rarely use it except for cloth dynamics.

  • ShawnDriscollShawnDriscoll Posts: 255
    kyoto kid said:

    ...ahh I have Poser but rarely use it except for cloth dynamics.

    I only model conforming clothes so far. Then load my PZ3 models into Vue for renders/animations.
  • Roman_K2Roman_K2 Posts: 658

    I was thinking that if it was a one-off view of the object there might be ways, including in Hexagon, to smooth over a particulary troublesome area, esp. if you fall back to a trusty image editor that supports layers. Applying a more-or-less "permanent" fix to the entire model, and keeping all of the rigged and specially-textured areas is more complex. Last year's discussion of fixing the DAZ cow ("cow" as in a dairy cow, eg. a farm animal) touched on some of this as I recall.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 28,435

    ...I don't see how using a 2D image editor would work for smoothing the curves, unless it is done in post which I am not good at as it would require digital panting and I have very unsteady hands due to severe arthritis.

  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 529
    edited June 13

    I think it is possible to do some fixes, additions or replacment parts to existing models.

     

    SubD

    What you can do right within DazStudio is to use the geometry editor and select the parts that need more subdivisions (create a Selection Set in the Tool Settings pane and save the scene), invert the selection, hide the other parts and delete the hidden. Now you can add a SubD Modifier to the remaining and save the subdivided mesh as OBJ. Reload the saved scene from before with the full model and the selection set and now delete the opposite parts of the car.

    With this you can load in both parts of the car the remaining with the original mesh and the subdivided parts into the DazStudio scene to export them once again in a combined OBJ.

    And before I forget you can even define hard / sharp edges that dont get smoothed by the SubD Modifier if you switch the Geometry Editor to edge Selection and use the action Set Subdivision Weight. With this you can assign a value between 0 and 1 on selected edges maybe at the car body that stay sharp.

    So much about SubD, if Hexagon can't maintain the UV map while editing the existing mesh you can just add new mesh parts like the interior to the model with it.

     

    The Rigging

    If the original car model has some rigging you can load this figure and your subdivided / kidbashed OBJ version into the scene and use the Transfer Utility and check to transfer only the WeightMaps and Morphs, also select Replace Source with Target. This should transfer the rigging and all morphs / control properties from the original figure. Then I would check the Weightmaps and maybe fix some by using the Geometry Editor to select parts of the mesh than change to Weightmap Brush tool and use the Fill Selected to fix the maps.

     

    Conforming Figures

    Another idea is to create conforming figures for the replacment parts like the wheels, that can be fitted to the original figure from where you delete these parts, both figures just need a bone with the same name.

    Its just a few clicks to convert a prop into a figure and you get a hip bone, now in Joint Editor rename the bone likewise the bone of the wheel in the original figure. Then select the car figure also Ctrl+click the wheel to use the Joint Editor action Transfer Rigging (Figure Space). This will position the replacement wheel bone to the position of the original car figure bone. With this it should be possible to fit the replacement wheel to the car figure.

     

    These are just a few ideas I dont know if they can be used in your case, much depends on the actual mesh but I hope some can be useful.

    Post edited by Syrus_Dante on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 28,435
    edited June 13

    ...tried using the geometry editor however couldn't get to the back sides of the wheels/tyres as other parts of the mesh were in the way.  This i why I asked how one takes a model apart in Hexagon so I can just work on the wheels/tyres.  The wheels also have three components, listed as Tyre Tread, Wheel, and Brake Disc which all need to have the edges cleaned up.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 529
    edited June 13

    While working with the DS Geometry Editor tool have a look at the various options in the right-click menu on the viewport.

    With the Drag Selection mode you can select just some faces of a given object like the wheels/tyres and then use Geometry Selection > Select Connected from the right-click menu or press Ctrl+*, to have the whole part (or multible parts) selected all at once. This works like a flood fill but requires that the geometry you want to select is actualy a single, welded part. The downside of this is maybe you want select something but you realize that it is welded / connected with other parts of the mesh. In this case you can use Grow/Shrink Selection with the shortcuts Ctrl+[numpad+] / Ctrl+[numpad-].

    Another way to select things is the Tool Settings pane with the Geometry Editor tool active. There you may have the option to select some Face Groups or maybe there is a special Surface Group (Material) for the rubber of the wheels - there are the plus or minus icons behind the group names to select deselect things in the Tool Settings pane.

    The good thing about Hide Selected & Delete Hidden in DS is you dont loose the rigging and morphs of the remaining parts. This is why I was thinking of having the car without wheels or whatever and make the additional parts conforming figures that would snap in place if fitted to.

    Post edited by Syrus_Dante on
  • Roman_K2Roman_K2 Posts: 658

    Ha, your first suggestions sounded interesting -- but over my head, at least for now.

    The second message suggests things about the Geometry Editor in DAZ Studio that I didn't know about! Thanks!

  • Roman_K2Roman_K2 Posts: 658
    edited June 14
    kyoto kid said:

    ...tried using the geometry editor however couldn't get to the back sides of the wheels/tyres as other parts of the mesh were in the way...

    I want to stress that this can be hard to do and the Geometry Editor (at least the versions that I have tried) in D.S. can be pesky. With a bit of time and a slow, careful approach though I believe it's possible to disassemble and/or isolate any part of an object.

    One of the most involved things I have done is to take a computer keyboard and I removed almost all of the polys leaving just one home row "key". Trying to get the slightly curved top surface of the key right, using only Hexagon (eg. modelling from scratch) had proved too difficult. See attached finished render.

    The more stuff is in front of, and in behind, the part that you want, the harder it gets... but it can be done.

    isolated-computer-key-copied-5x.jpg
    589 x 269 - 67K
    Post edited by Roman_K2 on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 28,435

    While working with the DS Geometry Editor tool have a look at the various options in the right-click menu on the viewport.

    With the Drag Selection mode you can select just some faces of a given object like the wheels/tyres and then use Geometry Selection > Select Connected from the right-click menu or press Ctrl+*, to have the whole part (or multible parts) selected all at once. This works like a flood fill but requires that the geometry you want to select is actualy a single, welded part. The downside of this is maybe you want select something but you realize that it is welded / connected with other parts of the mesh. In this case you can use Grow/Shrink Selection with the shortcuts Ctrl+[numpad+] / Ctrl+[numpad-].

    Another way to select things is the Tool Settings pane with the Geometry Editor tool active. There you may have the option to select some Face Groups or maybe there is a special Surface Group (Material) for the rubber of the wheels - there are the plus or minus icons behind the group names to select deselect things in the Tool Settings pane.

    The good thing about Hide Selected & Delete Hidden in DS is you dont loose the rigging and morphs of the remaining parts. This is why I was thinking of having the car without wheels or whatever and make the additional parts conforming figures that would snap in place if fitted to.

    ..the issue with "hiding" parts through turning down the opacity value is they still affect the render process. It's not the same "turning off" something using the "eyeball" icon in the parameters tab.

Sign In or Register to comment.