New to Iray displacement maps in Daz Studio
gibrril_fa945a6cee
Posts: 550
in The Commons
Hi all!
As the title says, I'm new to using displacement maps in Iray and Daz Studio. So here's my newbie question:
What color or greyscale value on a displacement map is "zero" and does not displace anything? I want to create a displacement map that let's the displacement fade out towards its edges so that it blends seamlessly with the rest of the texture.
Thanks a lot,
Kind regards,
Me
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Comments
Pure black for zero. keep in mind displacement doesn't work all that well in Iray. You will need to turn up the subdivision for best results.
You pretty much need to use normal maps in Iray for the best results.
But you CAN use displacement maps ;). It's just that it's more resource intensive than normal maps. A lot more.
Laurie
Yeah you can use it but it doesn't work as well as the normal maps which is why displacement is left out on some of the packs.
Black is not 0, black is -. You want neutral gray.
I believe the gray level is about 58% brightness in Photoshop.
Also, while displacement doesn’t work as well in Iray, it can still do a good job moving things around when you need large features.
Context and goals matter a lot on whether you should use displacement.
Is it different than in 3delight, where I thought black = lowest, white = highest, but you could set the lowest value to zero or a negative value?
Anyway, for context for the OP and to make sure I haven't fallen for an urban legend, the issue with displacement is that, unlike with 3Delight, displacement in iRay needs to move vertices, so it will be mesh dependant, and if the mesh isn't high enough resolution* you won't see fine details in displacement?
*That's high enough resolution including upping the subdivision for displacement.
**Rereading the first part, ignore that, was misreading the follow up comments.
Thanks! Does anybody know what the zero value is in GIMP for Iray?
zero would be pure black and 100 would be pure white.
Maybe my first part was a valid question after all? Is black just "minimum" and you can set the minimum to be zero?
Displacement is a range from black to white. If by ‘zero’ you mean midpoint, that’s gray. But it’s not linear so midpoint is a little different.
Yes, though last I tried soemthing odd was happening with unbalanced values that favoured the negative. But in principle the values that matter are black (= whatever the minimum is) and white (= whatever the maximum is), there's no setting for neutral as such.
Hi again,
I know a normal map is preferable resource-wise, but it doesn't really impact the geometry no? I thought a normal map is like a bump map in that regard. It doesn't look as good from every angle... Or am I wrong here...
Thanks a lot,
Kind regars,
Me
Normals look good from most angles, but where they fall short is totally realistic long shadows and silhouette. However, this is mainly an issue with really significant features, and safely ignored for little things like wrinkles and small skin bumps.
I find that, with more significant features, a combination of Displacement and Normals works really well; Displacement can adjust the surface pretty nicely at Subd 2-3, and then Normals can fill in a lot of the fiddly detail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_mapping
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_mapping
In a sense you are right, but you also have to take into account the renderer being used and which method gives the best results based on how it is programmed. In Iray, you would be better off modeling the actual detail than relying on a displacement map because the density of the mesh really comes into play.
Neutral or "no displacement" is mid-tone gray RGB (128, 128, 128) or (0.5, 0.5, 0.5) depending on how your application records the values. Grayscale below that will displace downward. Grayscale above that will displace upward along the surface normal. The extremes (0, 0, 0) and (255, 255, 255) are the maximum downward and upward displacement values.
Sidenote: I'm not up to date on Poser, but one of the differences between DAZ Studio and Poser used to be that Poser displacement was positive only. So pure black was "neutral" and all other shades displaced vertices upward along the surface normal. That's why we had to tweak displacement settings designed for Poser to get the same effect in DS.
Normal (and bump) maps change the angles of the surface normal, but they don't actually change the geometry of the object. While this makes them faster to render, as Oso points out, you don't get changes to the silhouette of the object or shadows.
Although it's a little old and was written using 3Delight as the rendering engine, my blog post Displaced Bumps talks about the difference between bump maps and displacement maps.
If you have an object which will be seen well down the edge of it (like a close up with a rim light) and it had large displacements, then that is where normal maps fail. If the displacement is subtle, then normal maps would do just fine and you should use them to save on resources. Rule of thumb is for large details with significant height, use displacement and for small details like small scars and skin pores, use normals and/or bumps.
Laurie
Displacement works ok, but there is a performance hit. There are times it is worth it, as some posters have mentioned; certain angles, sillouettes and related show the effects with displacement.
Thanks for the feedback! I'm trying custom normal maps now, and they do look okay, so normal maps it is!!!