Iray indoor Lighting with HDRI or 3 point lights? Recommendations?
ps2000
Posts: 278
Hello,
after learning some daz basics I am now studying lighting solutions. I do mainly indoor scenes, so my first approach was to set up a simple 3 point lighting system like a real photographer by creating spot lights or point lights in daz manually because HDRI doesn't seem to function indoors (walls prevent lighting by HDRI, incoming HDRI light through window is not enough etc.).
Because I am naturally lazy I also searched for ready to use lighting solutions in the shop and found out that the most popular products are HDRI-Studio lighting systems like PRO-Studio HDR Lighting System (https://www.daz3d.com/pro-studio-hdr-lighting-system). And the results on the promotion photos look pretty good in my opinion (a lot better than my tries with a 3 point lighting system).
(Recommendations for good easy to use non-HDRI lighting solutions would be greatly appreciated too by the way.)
After further consideration and studying the forum I thought that HDRI for indoor scenes could possible be an easy and viable lighting solution for indoors regardless if I remove the walls. With the right perspective I think I could simply remove all walls except the one behind the character.
The problem I see in this case is that the HDRI-3 point lighting system can't bring it's "integrated backlight" to bear because it's blocked by the only wall in the background? So is adding a single backlight manually in addition a viable solution?
On second thought would it be viable to remove all walls, then render the scene and in a second step then render only the back wall and combine the two images in photoshop? I think the background wall might look strange because of missing shadows etc.?
I ask because I don't want to shell out a lot of money for a HDR-Light system only to find out it's useless for my needs.
Some examples of your rendered indoors scenes lighted mainly with HDRI would be greatly appreciated, so I can make up my mind.
Thanks
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Comments
If you are intending to shoot an indoor scene, I would think you most likely want both Lights / Mesh lights (for the indoor scene) and an HDRI (for lighting the windows / backlighting). But then, I hate photographing indoor things indoors without my flash kit, and I hate when windows blow out to white using only ambient indoor light ;)
Can you post an example image of what you consider wrong, and perhaps we can suggest improvements?
Poor Gianni, just chillin in his Chateu. (Side note, I cut each of these renders off at around 5 minutes max.)
First render is using a free HDRI (just a field with a stark summer sun) from HDRI Haven. We can see that its dark as all hell, except for where the sun is streaking in the windows.
Second render, I decided to remove the curtains, as I wanted the light to hit the model, not the curtains. (no other changes.) We can start to see the room from the bounced light, but the model is still hidden.
Third render, I add my key light (a standard DS4 spotlight, as I want a 'hard' light), and I add my fill (a standard DS4 plane, made emissive with iray, simulating an umbrella.) Hey, we can see the model, the room, and the windows are not blown out! Love it!
Fourth render, I turn off all environment (HDRI) lighting. I guess it looks more like a studio shot, but its kinda boring.
If you want to use an HDR with an interior, one option is to use Iray Section Planes. These act as an infinite cutting plane that allows light in to the scene without you having to manually click off walls. This also allows you to cut diagonally, which would be a pain to do by hand with the geometry editor. Here is a room lit with one of the presets from PRO-Studio HDR Lighting System. You can also see how I positioned the Iray Section Plane to cut out the walls. To create one, go to the Create menu and choose Iray Section Plane Node. You won't see anything in the viewport but you can manipulate it with the translate tool to position it. You will see the effect when you enter Iray preview mode or render.
SickleYield has a great 3-point lighting tutorial here: https://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-Three-Point-Lighting-In-Iray-598282717
I tried using HDRI and Ghost Lights or planes, which work, but I find that 3-point lighting gives the best look.
I still use HDRIs for outdoor scenes, but use them as fill lighting, and rely more on the 3-point to light the subject properly.
I find that HDRs tend to render much faster on my machine than actual light rigs. What I usually do for indoor scenes is to remove the roof and whatever walls aren't in the camera's view and use an HDR for the lighting.
Realistic Indoor lighting is all about the light source. The more accurate to real world conditions that more realistic the image. If there are wall sconce on the model, then they should be eminating light, ceiling lamp or floor lamp, same thing. A mesh light at the ceiling can sometime provide the necessary ambiant light to balance the shadows. If it's a day time shot then daylight will stream in through the window. One place where a HDRI could work. Accuracy takes time to setup but the results are worth it.
Is this similar to, or the same as the Ghost Lights? I have both of those sets. I like them, but I keep fiddling with the emissive settings and positioning for the best lighting. Is the Iray Section Plane easier to work with?
I find these two sets very useful for portrait shots
https://www.daz3d.com/ly-leonine-pro-hdr-lighting
https://www.daz3d.com/ly-leonine-pro-hdr-lighting-vol-2
I also use this set along with them - https://www.daz3d.com/iradiance-hdr-mesh-lights-volume-2-for-iray
Thanks! I do like vol 1 more than vol 2 unless it's just a lot of post work brushes and effects. Vol 2 just seems more plain, or maybe it's just postworked.
I do own the Iradiance hdr mesh lights vol2. They're really, just haven't used them much. I should go back to them!!
I did some experiments with different light sources for indoor use:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/3443536/#Comment_3443536 and forward
and
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/3465216/#Comment_3465216
Iray section plane is different from Ghost Lights. The Iray section plane is built into DAZ Studio and acts as a giant knife that will cut geometry away in the render so you can position the camera or lights, such as an HDR outside the scene and then open the scene up with the Iray section plane cutting away walls, floors ceilings. In the pictures I posted above I put an Iray section plane diagonally cutting across the room to let the HDR shine the light in and illuminate the figure.
Really must give that a try. I struggle with indoor lighting which is why I use the Ghost Lights so much. But the section plane sounds like something that might be easier since it cuts right into the scene. Thanks!
Sorry for the late answer, but I had no time until now.
Thanks for the example renders, they help a lot. It seems that the best lighting solution for indoors is a mixture of hdri and a 3 point lighting system. I also didn't know hdri haven, there seem to be a lot of good free hdri. Are the buyable ones at daz any better?
I made some test renders with only a studio hdri from hdri haven but the results aren't spectacular. In my opinion the lighting of the upper body is too dark and the lower body too bright. But I don't really know if I placed the camera correctly because I have no idea about real photography. I think it's placed right in the second picture? What's the key light, backlight etc. in the hdri? Also the render is too grainy despite an increased render quality to 7 and a convergence of 95%. Any ideas how to improve the quality? In my admitedly limited experience an increase in the convergence will increase the render time exponentialy but not really help to decrease the grainy parts?
Thanks, I will try that tutorial and post the results.
So I tried that tutorial and followed it by the book. But Jesus Christ the result is horrible. Where did I go wrong? Obviously there is too much light. My keylight is 150000000 lumen and my back- and filllight 15000000 lumen as recommended in the tutorial. I think the camera and light positions are ok (see attachment)?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
You need to adjust the lumen of each light until it's to your liking.
Turn the others off and adjust one light at the time.
For simple lighting I just create new spot light, place it ( 1 or 2 meters away for example) and:
1. take it from point to disk or rectangle
2. adjst the height and width (100-200cm)
3. adjust the lumen to taste.
And make sure headlamp and HDR is off (HDR can be your fill light if you position it correctly)