Genesis, Victoria, 4,7,8... confused !

Hello everybody

I'm totally new here, and i'm quite confused with all "compatible figure" in the store.

I've understood that Genesis was the "engine technology" for people rendering, coming with a male and a female base figure. I guess then that 4, 7,8... stands for the version of that engine.  But i sometimes see "Compatible with Genesis AND Victoria". So here are my question : what is Victoria stands for ? is it something included in Genesis (then why saying it's compatible with both if it's included)  is it something different (an addon for genesis or standalone product) i have to buy (or is it free) ? Are Victoria 4 (for example) based models upward compatible with Victoria 8 (i guess Victoria 8 require Genesis 8) ?

Gosh, it's so confusing to me....

Thanks for your help.

Comments

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 28,669

    Victoria 4/Michael 4 etc   standalone older technology.  Known as generation 4, there were previously gen 3,2 and 1.

    Then came Genesis   The Newer technology

    Genesis    characters associated with Genesis have 5 attached,  So Victoria 5, Michael 5 etc
    Genesis 2,  has 6 as the number, so Victoria 6, Michael 6  etc etc
    Genesis 3   has  7  as the number Victoria 7, Michael 7 etc
    Genesis 8 has the number 8 attached to all compatable products.  Daz missed out on Genesis 4,5,6 and 7 because it was felt that the numbering would get confusing and so bought the Genesis number in line with the character generations.

  • incubusincubus Posts: 0

    ok, so if i understand things well, a Victoria 4 and Genesis 3 based model will not work with Genesis 8 because not the same technology... ? 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 46,172
    incubus said:

    ok, so if i understand things well, a Victoria 4 and Genesis 3 based model will not work with Genesis 8 because not the same technology... ? 

    That depends on the product. Genesis 3 textures will usually apply to Genesis 8, clothing will usually AutoFit (though possibly with some loss of function, depending on how it works). Victoria 4 clothign can be AutoFitted to Genesis, then the result can be AutoFitted to Genesis 8 Female, but textures won't apply. Morphs can be converted - there's a lng thread on the various methods - but it isn't an automatic process.

  • incubusincubus Posts: 0

    ok, thanks for the informations.

    that is more clear now

  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 565

    I think, it was a bad Idea to give in to those who were confused about the name system. It used to be Genesis (1) = Victoria 5, Genesis 2 = Victoria 6, Genesis 3 = Victoria 7. So the next logic step should have been: Genesis 4 = Victoria 8, not ! Genesis 8.

    Victoria

    Victoria 2

    Victoria 3

    Victoria 4

    Victoria 4.1

    Victoria 4.2

    Genesis

       Victoria 5 for Genesis

    Genesis 2

      Victoria 6 for Genesis 2

    Genesis 3

      Victoria 7 for Genesis 3

    Genesis 8 ???

      Victoria 8 for Genesis ?8?

     

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 28,669

    It would have possibly been fine if people would use the full name Genesis.  However people like abbreviations,  they say G3 or even Gen 3     and then if we had had genesis 4 it would have been referred to as Gen4,  and we already have a gen 4, with V4, M4, S4, A4, G4, K4.    The earlier generations were not so bad, as, with the exception of the A3 fan club, they are not used very much at all now.  V4 and M4 are however still very popular, despite their age.

  • incubusincubus Posts: 0

    can you use Victoria 4 and Victoria 8 "technology" on the same install (and choose which one you want to use), or you can only have one installed and have to deal with it ?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 28,669

    Yes you can use both   You can also have all the genesis iterations installed.  Genesis, Genesis 2 M&F, Genesis 3 M&F, Genesis 8 M&F all come free with D|S.  They are in the genesis startessentials packages.   Victoria 4 needs to be purchased if you decide to use the older stuff.

  • MarcCCTxMarcCCTx Posts: 621

    Also if you see 'Vicki' or 'Vicky" by itself you are probably talking about Victoria 1 & 2, if it was for Victoria 3 in usually says so.

  • nicdf16nicdf16 Posts: 8
    But to be clear: the "Genesis8" figure -- which comes free with Daz -- does NOT mean I own Victoria 8 or Michael 8? These are separate products that must be purchased? Or are they synonymous terms? Assuming they're not: what, exactly, is "Victoria" and "Michael?" A package of morphs to the baseline Genesis male/female figures that produces a specifically-recognizeable character? What is a Daz "actor?" I.e. are Victoria/Michael "actors" derived from their respective Genesis baseline figures? Yes -- I too struggle with the definitions of these words. Obviously a newbie.
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 46,172
    nicdf16 said:
    But to be clear: the "Genesis8" figure -- which comes free with Daz -- does NOT mean I own Victoria 8 or Michael 8? These are separate products that must be purchased? Or are they synonymous terms? Assuming they're not: what, exactly, is "Victoria" and "Michael?" A package of morphs to the baseline Genesis male/female figures that produces a specifically-recognizeable character? What is a Daz "actor?" I.e. are Victoria/Michael "actors" derived from their respective Genesis baseline figures? Yes -- I too struggle with the definitions of these words. Obviously a newbie.

    Right, the Name 8s are add-ons for the matching Genesis 8 base figure - a new shape and texture set.

  • nicdf16nicdf16 Posts: 8

    Thanks again, Richard!  Very helpful!  

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,331
    edited May 23

    You might find this thread interesting: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24257/daz-3d-human-figures-a-history#latest

     

    Mod Edit to remove superflous http at beginning of link

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • pwiecekpwiecek Posts: 1,074
    edited May 24

    Genesis 1,2,3,8 are NOT "engine technologies" if anything, they are "content technologies". The current "engine technologies" are iray and 3delight. Daz has done a good job of making sure the new engine supports the old content.

    Personally, I use G3 to mean Generation 3 and Gen3 to refer to Genesis 3, but only in my own content.

    To further confuse the issue, Content Paradise used to have a line they called G2 that was related to the Poser included content.

    Due to compatability issues between Genesis and Poser, Victoria 4 has been around for a loooong time. so there is a lot of very specific content available for her. The earlier generations nort so much.

    Post edited by pwiecek on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 7,109
    edited May 25

    You also might want to bear in mind that Victoria 4 is a base figure, whereas Victorias 5, 6, 7 and 8 are not; V5-8 are morphs of the base figures.

    Products stating that Victoria 4 is a requirement are being more literal.

    The requirements when talking about the Genesis line are less stringent.

    Take the following product as an example https://www.daz3d.com/fwsa-elizabeth-hd-for-victoria-8; it will work without Victoria 8, but will look different as it won't be able to use the Victoria 8 morph if Victoria 8 is not owned/installed.

    Edit:

    It is worth noting, that prior to Genesis 8, if the character used the same UVs as the character it stated as a requirement, it may not work correctly; UVs can be transferred, but I'm not sure if it can be done if the base character with those UVs is not owned.

    So far (I believe), all characters for Genesis 8 use the default UVs

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • KuroFishKuroFish Posts: 15

    Is there anyway to get free or cheap genitalia for G8 figures?

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 7,109

    There is Renderotica; goodle the site; I'm not linking, as it is an eyebrow-raiser.

  • oomuoomu Posts: 160

    I consider it's better to learn the proper terms and technicity behind these "figures" for a better understanding.

    Genesis, V4,  Genesis 8 female , Genesis 3 male and so on are "figures". A mix of a 3D mesh, rigging (bones), weight maps (to manage deformations of muscles and stuff when posing the figures) and UV maps.

    - rigging :  some figures can have a different mesh (arrangements of polygons to make the 3D shapes) but still share a simular rigging (same faces groups, bones, names). It allows a somewhat compatibility of poses between different figures.

    - UV Maps. An UV map tells to the software how to wrap a textures around the mesh. Different figures can shares same uv maps or provides compatibility uv maps. Allowing to share same texture files.

    - morphs : a morph is a prepared deformation of a mesh, or here a figure, to make new characters based on the previous work done on the figure (rigging, cloths, and stuff). A morph is a mix of vectors telling to the software how to move the polygons, bones, weight corrections and others stuff to make a nice shape.  if the figures are very similar, a morph for one figure could work nicely on an other one. There is tools to transfer a morph from one figure to another.

    So :

    Victoria 4 is a figure. a mesh with an assortiments of faciiities to use it immediately.

    Genesis is a figure, with morphs to make it Male or Female

    Dragon 3 is a figure with morphs to make different dragons, textures, materials, a specific uv maps for its shape, a specific rig (wings , tails in addition to a back, legs, neck...) and so on.

    Genesis 2 female is a figure in shape of a woman. Victoria 6 is a "character" (basically : a mix of morphs, uv map, materials, corrections to create a new product based on the work made for Genesis 2 Female)

    Genesis 8 Female is a figure, Victoria 8 (or The Girl 8 and many others) is a "character".

     

    Some characters are a complete package like Victoria 8, some are just materials or just morphs. it depends.

     

    So G8F, V4 and others Dragon3 are not just "technology", they are more "contents" built upon/for a technology like : triax or dual quaternion, iray rendering, 3dlight, MDL shaders and so on.

    -

    There is also the complex subject of geograft :)

  • LintonLinton Posts: 359
    KuroFish said:

    Is there anyway to get free or cheap genitalia for G8 figures?

    You can Google around for free ones, and the aforementioned Renderotica website has good quality ones that are not free. However, if you want DAZ versions, you can buy the Pro Bundles, to get a set that match the current generation. You only need one pro pack for each gender. Buying Michael (or Edward 8, Darius 8 etc) 8 Pro Bundle comes with a ton of goodies as well, and the one gential set can be used across all of your male figures, with the majority of anatomical materials too.

  • Ron KnightsRon Knights Posts: 785

    I'm going to jump in with a really simplistic explanation, because I'm good at it. Victoria, Michael, David, Freak etc are characters or People. They've come in various generations. Victoria 1, 2, 3, & 4 came before Genesis technology. 

    DAZ has been known to skip "Generation numbers." David had a generation 3, then skipped to Generation 5. I hope that helps.

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