Looking for Help with Character Ages
Nyghtfall3D
Posts: 813
I run an adults-only message board for digital artists who work in 3D. Me and my hosting service are in the US. Here, the legal age of adulthood is 18. Is there a definitive list of guidelines I can defer to when determinig whether the characters featured in my users' work look 18+? My current system involves eyeballing their renders and making a judgement call based partly on my first impression, but I don't like its subjective nature and don't feel it's fair to my users.
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No, there isn't. What you're dealing with here isn't people, it's posed mannequins, which have no age beyond whatever they're portrayed as having.
Fair point. What I have to keep in mind though is that, according to US Code, digital or computer-generated images that are indistinguishable from an actual minor are illegal. I just wasn't sure if there's some kind of resource that provides guidelines for a creating a more methodical approach to moderating content.
Even if there were an official statement, since it would be a statement of the artist's intent or Daz' judgement it would not, I think. carry any objective weight if an image was challenged.
And I presume nothing exists in the public domain...
...I've wondered about this myself when on one particular gallery site Which I upload my work to.
While it has a "mature" filter, it is dependent on whether one has a registered account. In several individual and group galleries I often see 3D nudes that seem "questionable" as some appear to be very "borderline" when it comes to apparent age. This has me a bit concerned and I have entertained thoughts of bringing it up to site management.
Some subjects appear to be younger than my teen characters I post here.
I am also dismayed that my characters often get faved to collections that deal with bondage and S&M. It really makes me wonder about the integrity of the individuals involved as all my characters are fully clothed.
You'd best consult a lawyer that specializes in such laws. Looking like a minor in some people's opinions is not enough to break the law as anybody carded for ID in a bar or to buy cigarettes knows.
Given that reason, I'd go for a two-tiered rule to deal with the grey zone where a subject could be either underage or a petite adult: For near-photorealistic images, grey zone pictures are forbidden; for non-photorealistic ones, you'll defer to the artist's assertion that it's an adult. Clearly non-adult images, of course, would be forbidden.
One thing to take into consideration, it's the site administrators/owners and hosting service that'll be dragged through the courts if anything goes wrong.
...that is my concern with the one site I mentioned. I really don't like the way the Daz galleries are set up and they don't get as much exposure as this other site does.
I've seen people make characters and say that their character is X age when they look WAY younger -so even if you get the "official supposed age" of the character, you should still use your judgment. If it looks like a 9 year old child and the character's creator is like "NO! She's a 150 year old demoness from the planet Bokeh-waifu" it still looks like a 9 year old and should not be portrayed in a sexual manner. The best course might be to have a team of 3 or so people to vote on the age. If it looks like it "walks the line" and COULD be underage, then err on the side of caution. There is zero reason to green light the sexualization of characters that look like they could be children or could be underage.
This is a really tough one. I looked like I was 18 when I was 12. So how do you tell? Heck half the teen population looks older than 18. A also know plenty of 18-21 year old's who look like they are 12
I found reference to a number of court cases involving sexualized depictions of fictional underage characters. In every one, the defendants either plead out or were convicted, so I'm going to err on the side of caution and keep doing what I've done for the last three years.
Thank you all for your input and advice.
...I wish the site I show my works on (which are the same ones I post to threads here) would take that stand. I see a lot of nude and erotic images where characters definitely appear to be underage. Again I find it troubling as some of the community members there fave my characters and post them with collections of dubious nature. This is not what I am in this for.
The probably don't want to risk losing or alienating the artists who post that type of content, especially if they're the site's more frequent contributors. I have a staunch respect for my country's laws and a zero-tolerance policy for underage content on my board. I don't care how skilled you are or how much work you want to share.
...same here. I don't go beyond swimsuit pics (and even those are quite "tame" in comparison to what I see there).
I appreciate nice artistic and tasteful nudes that focus on the human form as long as the subjects are of adult age and not portrayed in a suggestive manner. In some galleries, and favourite collections, I've seen images that would be more "appropriate" for one of those "XXX" sites.
I do so agree with that. When I was 23 and 3 months or so pregnant with my first child I went shopping with my sister-in-law who was 13 and she got the bus tickets.Being used to travelling with friends the same age as herself she asked the driver for 2 half fares to the shopping centre and he didn't bat an eyelid, just gave her the tickets.
Friend at work is 29 this year; he still gets asked for proof of age when buying stuff. It irritates the hell out of him.
Edit: I told him, I'd loved to be asked for proof of age. :D
@OP
Er on the side of caution.
If the character could be underage, make a decission on the content of the post; personally I'd have at least three folks that vote on it, with one (and maybe more) of them being paranoid. It isn't just about what they're wearing, well sometimes it's more about the story and/or pose than about what the character's wear - meaning that fully clothed could fail your checks.
and since none of the Daz figures or add-on characters have ID, service would be refused.
One adult site I know of, won't let people use cherubs in valentines pictures.
A few years ago I went to a bar with my little brothers who had just turned 18. I'm 9 years older. Guess who got carded? ^^
What? That makes no sense. A DAZ model couldn't be asking to begin with and DAZ 3D itself sells countless beer and wine models with which models that would be denied service are apparently served 3D modeled alcoholic beverages anyways and also have available a huge cache of 3D modeled weapons to inflect harm with too, even in the places that it is illegal to have those real alcoholic beverages, real weapons or places where there are legal age restrictions on real weapons ownership, and all made available by DAZ 3D. So if they wouldn't be served without IDs and couldn't ask for service anyway then why bring it up at all and why does DAZ 3D make it available given that they wouldn't be served?
I guess creating a scene with a DAZ model being carded in a bar and showing an ID stating an age of 21 is out of the question then. Or a DAZ model menacingly pointing a gun a someone offframe in a render. ...because they look like they might be doing something illegal and in one of those cases is doing something illegal, even if it is fiction.
What I don't like but is legal I have no recourse but to avoid it.
In my humble opinion, in 3D it should be, like in real life, a huge big NO NO when it comes to portraying children, pre-teens... in sexual poses and outfits. I often find my images * which are innocent * in very questionable fav. on a Site that I post my images. Common sense should kick in when it comes to images like that.
I came across an Artist on said Gallery, you show very young 3D children * would say 6 + * in suspenders, high heels, topless in sexual poses.
I also find images of mine in fav. in said Gallery that makes my stomach turn when I see those images of so young 3D Children.
I messaged that person told him that those kinds of images with 3D children that age should not be posted.
The Answer was: But they are over 18 years old, they just look very young.
I think I know what Gallery/ Site y you are talking about. I have seen the same going on and find my images in those fav. I block those * Artists * I do not want my work associated with them.
Did you report them to police? I think they might have trouble finding actual facts though that would allow them to procecute, except general obscenity laws that apply regardless of what age one appears to be. I avoid such sites because I am tired of violence and sex being used in an atempt to make money.
Not morals but what the law says goes.#1 rule of pron before you do anything ,Get Lawyers / Sharks
DeviantArt has a army of Sharks.
If you don't have Sharks protecting you ,stay out the water
#2 rule Post every where if the models do not have adult ratios head to toe n looks at least 21 n has a fully developed body stay off my sight.period .Violators will be show no mercy.
...I try to do the same myself. but often it is after the fact and my kids are already there at times next to some pretty tasteless stuff.
I actually wrote a journal mentioning that I don't appreciate my characters being put in along with such images and most likely lost some followers in the process. One time someone even wrote a comment to one of my pics wondering if I has any pics of my Leela character in BDM settings. I kindly mentioned I have no interest in dong so and mentioned it would be really inappropriate considering her more youthful appearance and then requested this person remove all pics of mine that they faved (there were several including a couple toon ones with Sadie that were mixed in with some pretty trashy stuff). After they were removed from the fave gallery, I blocked that individual.
Yes Leela is a legal adult (usually portrayed between 18 and 20, though sometimes younger depending on what part of the story the scene relates to), but she has both the appearance and outlook of a younger person due to both the physical and mental trauma (as well as a reason that would be a spoiler) she underwent when her nation was invaded (witnessing her family being killed along with being seriously injured herself and needing life saving surgery) as well as growing up in a war zone as a "child soldier" with the resistance. Her best friend Tracey who she is sometimes pictured with is fey (elf), who traditionally tend to look younger physically. even though she is a year older.