Uploading freebies to DAZ so users can download it under the DAZ license for commercial use

linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,303
edited November 2013 in The Commons

edited and removed by user

Post edited by linvanchene on

Comments

  • PixolygonPixolygon Posts: 5,989
    edited December 1969

    Why not just upload to ShareCG as unrestricted use?

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301
    edited December 1969

    As long as the zip contains a text file with the license terms, that should be all you need.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 14,324
    edited December 1969

    Sharecg can be a minefield of stuff in wrong categories. Even stuff listed in the commercial use categories, I've found have restricted readmes. Plus, not all content has licensing text, most especially poses. I just don't download from there anymore.

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,377
    edited December 1969

    I'm not really sure what usage some people are trying to get where the documentation is looked at so strictly, but apparently there are places/situations where it is really, really important. Personally, if I put something in freebies, I don't particularly care how or where it gets used, just that no one else tries to claim credit for creating it, and even then I doubt I would do anything more than give them a frowny-face. I suppose sometimes it's better to CYA and be more safe than sorry. If anyone downloads my freebies and needs some sort of permissions to use them, contact me and I will personally write whatever is needed so that you can use it.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,303
    edited November 2013

    edited and removed by user

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • Proxima ShiningProxima Shining Posts: 969
    edited December 1969

    With freebies, people don´t expect excellent quality. But if they were uploaded to DAZ, I certainly would expect a certain level of quality simply because it would be offered in DAZ store. So this route would not be for every content maker, only for the select few who would meet DAZ standards. Regarding a receipt that can be submited to 3rd parties - DAZ currently does not give a receipt that would be recognized as valid in my country anyway...

  • SiscaSisca Posts: 875
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    Why not just upload to ShareCG as unrestricted use?

    I can only speak based on my own experiences and of some cases I read on the forum.

    My general impression is that 3rd parties that are not familiar with 3d content licensing have a very hard time understanding how this all works.

    When you are using licensed content some 3rd parties keep asking questions until you can provide them with an entity who has a registered business address and additional paperwork that proofs them to be legitmate and trustable. They want to see receipts even for free items.


    Telling 3rd parties that you downloaded free items on sharing sites will certainly raise some flags and make them look even closer and they might ask for more paperwork then usual.

    Just putting some readme in a .zip file may be enough for some cases but other 3rd parties will get very suspicious and will keep asking.

    If a private person without business adress is putting a readme into a .zip file how can it be proofed that the person who made the freebie really created it from scratch? Some 3rd parties then even might want to see some kind of proof in form of screenshots of projects files that show the creation process...

    Uploading freebies to DAZ3D would mean that a at least in the CG community well known entity could be presented as a trusted source.

    User could add freebies to the cart as any other products and then get a receipt that they can submit to 3rd parties.

    Of course this then would also mean that people who would provide DAZ3D with freebies would also have to submit some kind of proof that they created the content themselves.
    Of course that would also mean additional work for DAZ to check the proof.

    - - -

    I guess it is up to everyone to deceide how much paperwork they are willing to take into account.

    After my latest experience I will only use content I purchased at trusted stores like DAZ3D for any commercial projects.

    Again, I am very greatful for freebies and really admire all the work that is put into them.
    I personally just find it "safer" to use them only for private non commercial projects.

    I think you'll be hard pressed to convince Daz to do this since they work on the Razor Blade business model. They give away the razor (Daz Studio) and make their money selling you the blades (content to use in DS). Nothing wrong with that model. However, since much of the free content could be seen as in direct competition to content they're selling - though, as mentioned above, not always of the same quality - it could cost them money. Not only from lost sales of paid content but in bandwidth costs for everyone downloading the free content.

    A possible solution for people in your situation is for the free content creators to attach a Creative Commons copyright to their work. They could add the html and associated metadata to their listing on the freebie site as well as adding the plain text into any readme file. I'm not sure how easy it would be to create and add a .pdf to the downloads but if it's easy enough you can even embed the xmp data into the .pdf. Since Creative Commons is a recognized license it would provide those customers that aren't always familiar with the 3D world something that they do understand as a license.

    Even that won't pacify everyone though so it's up to you, as a commercial artist, to figure out what your client will be comfortable with and work from there. For some this means you'll only be able to use paid content.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 30,444
    edited December 1969

    Sisca said:
    I think you'll be hard pressed to convince Daz to do this since they work on the Razor Blade business model. They give away the razor (Daz Studio) and make their money selling you the blades (content to use in DS). Nothing wrong with that model. However, since much of the free content could be seen as in direct competition to content they're selling - though, as mentioned above, not always of the same quality - it could cost them money. Not only from lost sales of paid content but in bandwidth costs for everyone downloading the free content..

    If DAZ 3D did have this sort of viewpoint about freebies they wouldn't provide a forum dedicated to the making and distributing of freebies.

  • SiscaSisca Posts: 875
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Sisca said:
    I think you'll be hard pressed to convince Daz to do this since they work on the Razor Blade business model. They give away the razor (Daz Studio) and make their money selling you the blades (content to use in DS). Nothing wrong with that model. However, since much of the free content could be seen as in direct competition to content they're selling - though, as mentioned above, not always of the same quality - it could cost them money. Not only from lost sales of paid content but in bandwidth costs for everyone downloading the free content..

    If DAZ 3D did have this sort of viewpoint about freebies they wouldn't provide a forum dedicated to the making and distributing of freebies.

    I didn't mean that they were against the concept of freebies. In fact, from a business perspective they probably see freebies as a good thing. If you can get people into using your product then they'll eventually want to get higher quality stuff and they're likely to go to your store to do it. Especially if you've been open enough to provide something like the freebie forum.

    But, again from a business perspective, I don't see any advantage for them to be the source of that free content. There is an expense associated with providing this content which sites like ShareCG make up by covering the page with ads.

    As was mentioned above there is also the quality issue. There are exceptions but a large percentage of the free content out there is either old and dated or not up to the quality of the stuff you pay for either here at Daz or at the other shops. You get what you pay for. However, if that level of content started appearing on the Daz store it would create a perception that the quality of the content on the Daz shop was slipping. Not saying this is correct just saying that's how people might see it.

    Basically, I'm just saying I don't see how it would be to Daz's advantage to be the provider of this content.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 30,444
    edited December 1969

    Speaking completely as myself, and not in any other capacity, As a once vendor (on another site) and now long time freebie maker, I can assure you that there are freebies out there that are better than some commercial items which are in the general market place. Yes DAZ 3D does try to provide best quality items, but not all commercial sites do.

    Maintaining a site or part of a site to provide freebies is not a venture for the fainthearted, There is a lot more to be considered apart from space and bandwidth. In the old freebie archive at DAZ3D the freebie were all made by PAs or former PAs. Any site that allows freebies from many providers does have a lot of work to do to "police" the products offered. It takes almost as much work as maintaining a store site.

  • SiscaSisca Posts: 875
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Speaking completely as myself, and not in any other capacity, As a once vendor (on another site) and now long time freebie maker, I can assure you that there are freebies out there that are better than some commercial items which are in the general market place. Yes DAZ 3D does try to provide best quality items, but not all commercial sites do.

    Maintaining a site or part of a site to provide freebies is not a venture for the fainthearted, There is a lot more to be considered apart from space and bandwidth. In the old freebie archive at DAZ3D the freebie were all made by PAs or former PAs. Any site that allows freebies from many providers does have a lot of work to do to "police" the products offered. It takes almost as much work as maintaining a store site.

    As I said there are exceptions. I have quite a few freebie "vendors" on other sites that I track and pretty much download everything they do but they're a small percentage of the whole. And yes, for some of them their free content is better than what you pay for elsewhere.

    It's the whole maintaining thing that I say is the reason I don't see what benefit Daz would get from doing something like this. It's costly - in both time and money - and I don't think it would gain them any more goodwill than what they're already doing with the freebie forums and monthly contests and such. At least not enough additional goodwill to offset the costs.

    This is especially true if, as the OP suggests, the reason for doing this is to provide a reliable reference that he can point to when someone asks him how he knows that the content was created by the person that posted it. In order to do that Daz would have to vet each freebie, not only for quality but also for authenticity else they could be held liable should someone steal something from somewhere else and send it to the claiming it was theirs.

    All that being said if Daz were to do something like this I'd be all over it and gladly spend more of my time browsing their site than some of the others.

  • robkelkrobkelk Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    Slosh said:
    I'm not really sure what usage some people are trying to get where the documentation is looked at so strictly, but apparently there are places/situations where it is really, really important.

    Commercial uses, primarily.

    I've heard stories about how some documentary movies couldn't be released for months or years because the director wasn't able to get the rights to use a song that was heard for a few seconds in the background of an important scene. And that's an incidental inclusion - I've been lead to believe that the rules for using something deliberately included in a work are more stringent.

    This is why I keep all the readmes for everything - they have the license terms. (Or, at least, they should.)

  • robkelkrobkelk Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    Sisca said:
    But, again from a business perspective, I don't see any advantage for them to be the source of that free content. There is an expense associated with providing this content which sites like ShareCG make up by covering the page with ads.

    As was mentioned above there is also the quality issue. There are exceptions but a large percentage of the free content out there is either old and dated or not up to the quality of the stuff you pay for either here at Daz or at the other shops. You get what you pay for. However, if that level of content started appearing on the Daz store it would create a perception that the quality of the content on the Daz shop was slipping. Not saying this is correct just saying that's how people might see it.

    While this might apply to DAZ3D, it doesn't apply to everyone. Yes, everyone wants to be rewarded for their work, but there are definitions of "reward" that cover more than just financial reward.

    For example, see the various themed free resources lists that I maintain on the Freepozitory. I don't get paid for my work there, either in money or in product. But I get the rewards of "satisfaction of a job well done" and "knowledge that my efforts help others." For some people, that's enough - especially in a hobbyist community such as this one.

  • zawarkalzawarkal Posts: 1,018
    edited December 1969

    For my two cents worth... it is the freebies that started me coming to daz in the beginning and it is the freebies that keeps me coming back. I have wishlisted items on other stores, but I am still only buying items from daz

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited July 2013

    The main problem I see here is that DAZ would have to do QA, and check for copyright infringement at the very least, on all the freebies they offered like this, since they would be releasing them under their license.

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,000
    edited December 1969

    DAZ3D would not bennefit from offering community freebies in this way since it would require the same amount of time and effort for QA to test and pack items. And the freebies would need to meet DAZ3D's quality standards.

    If anyone wants to use a freebie commercially and needs proof that they were allowed to do so then the best they can do is request something in writing from the freebie maker based on the requirements of the client.

  • zawarkalzawarkal Posts: 1,018
    edited December 1969

    one more thought, I did not read entire post so hope this has not already been said... currently daz is giving pc members the weekly freebie while others have to make a purchase to get the item as a freebie.. maybe in a way daz could pick the best of the freebies that are being asked to go through this process and once again offer a weekly freebie to the other members without charge, plus of course the pc members would also have another freebie... and then these freebies could begin another daz freebie section, building weekly remaining available for future downloads, like we had on the old forum which is now gone

  • anikadanikad Posts: 1,919
    edited December 1969

    I think this is an unrealistic and unworkable idea. Daz is a business , not a charity - how will this help their bottom line? Something like this will hit the bandwidth, storage, staff time (we're constantly being told that Daz is a small company) big time. Never mind the fact they're going to be hosting a large collection of freebies which is likely to compete with their paid content. If I can find a high quality freebie without a lot of difficulty I'm not going to be buying whatever Daz is selling. So my viewpoint on this is - if 3D artists are having trouble convincing customers that they have the right to use a free product in a commercial endeavour they probably shoudn't be using that free product.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 30,444
    edited December 1969

    Zawarkal said:
    one more thought, I did not read entire post so hope this has not already been said... currently daz is giving pc members the weekly freebie while others have to make a purchase to get the item as a freebie.. maybe in a way daz could pick the best of the freebies that are being asked to go through this process and once again offer a weekly freebie to the other members without charge, plus of course the pc members would also have another freebie... and then these freebies could begin another daz freebie section, building weekly remaining available for future downloads, like we had on the old forum which is now gone

    What you must remember is that the weekly freebies are only free for that week, and then go into the catalogue as full commercial items. This is because DAZ 3D has actually purchased these items in the same way as they purchase all Daz Originals, having commissioned them from the PAs in question. In other words they have spent money out in order to offer this freebie. So after the free offer for that first week they then need to recoup some part of the pruchase price they have paid out to the PA.

    PC member are able to get them as free items without a purchase because they have already made a comittment to Daz 3D by purchasing a PC membership. So that counts as their prior purchase.

  • zawarkalzawarkal Posts: 1,018
    edited July 2013

    chohole said:
    Zawarkal said:
    one more thought, I did not read entire post so hope this has not already been said... currently daz is giving pc members the weekly freebie while others have to make a purchase to get the item as a freebie.. maybe in a way daz could pick the best of the freebies that are being asked to go through this process and once again offer a weekly freebie to the other members without charge, plus of course the pc members would also have another freebie... and then these freebies could begin another daz freebie section, building weekly remaining available for future downloads, like we had on the old forum which is now gone

    What you must remember is that the weekly freebies are only free for that week, and then go into the catalogue as full commercial items. This is because DAZ 3D has actually purchased these items in the same way as they purchase all Daz Originals, having commissioned them from the PAs in question. In other words they have spent money out in order to offer this freebie. So after the free offer for that first week they then need to recoup some part of the pruchase price they have paid out to the PA.

    PC member are able to get them as free items without a purchase because they have already made a comittment to Daz 3D by purchasing a PC membership. So that counts as their prior purchase.

    you may have misunderstood my intent of this comment; all I was suggesting was this could be a way for daz to recreate the freebie archive that we used to have under the old forum

    someone wants the daz license applied to their freebie
    if their freebie is daz quality then daz could take the time to research that one freebie in the week period
    this one freebie could then be added to the new daz freebie archive in which one freebie is added weekly
    this freebie would be freely available to all daz members at no charge until such time as the forum might once again be changed/removed
    the only cost of this one item to daz would (I think) be the time it took to select and research that one item

    future free downloads and bandwidth issues still arise but to me this generates good will to the daz customers,
    but also by only passing one item through weekly this archive would take time to buildup
    (as I recall the past freebie archive was not all that large)

    I see this as a win/win...
    daz gets virtually free content to build a freebie archive
    the non pc member customers once again get to have that one weekly freebie that there have been complaints about losing
    and this would give the better quality freebie offerings a chance at daz licensing

    I could be wrong, but this is only offered as a suggestion

    edit: Oh, and daz already has the means of delivering these items without needing to setup new software or whatever it takes... they can (again, I think) simply distribute these items under the 'free items' menu item already available in the store

    Post edited by zawarkal on
  • IceEmpressIceEmpress Posts: 639
    edited December 1969

    If DAZ 3D did have this sort of viewpoint about freebies they wouldn’t provide a forum dedicated to the making and distributing of freebies.
    I disagree somewhat with your point (with all due respect).

    First of all, the freebies are all off-site. Second, though DAZ doesn't always adhere to what I would classify as the best business model (though I'm only saying this as a consumer-- I don't possess any degree of educational background in business), a forum dedicated to freebies-- WITH some of the best links archives to freebies for DAZ/Poser across the net, is a good business model for DAZ because it brings people to the site.
    OTOH, I agree that they don't follow the ironclad business model 100%-- if they did, then none of the PAs would be allowed to withdraw their products and either sell them elsewhere or provide them for free (in an ironclad business model, DAZ would take part or full ownership of any product they make available on their site, including any product they commission but then decide not to use-- we can see this with the whole Mattel vs. the guy who created the Bratz line of dolls. I think it was Mattel, anyhow. That case disgusts me to no end and is a shining example of why we need to overhaul and restrict IP law. A company should not be able to claim ownership of a prototype which they commission but then shoot down, IMO. I'm also strongly opposed to the patenting or IP rights on living organisms, such as plant cultivars *I am in support of patenting procedures used to create such cultivars so long as they are not natural/occur in nature-- e.g. recombinant DNA technology yes, cross-breeding the old-fashioned way, no. I don't care if plant cultivars HAVE been patented for close to 150 years. Oh, and I'm ecstatic that the courts finally ruled that genes cannot be patented.)

    I’ve heard stories about how some documentary movies couldn’t be released for months or years because the director wasn’t able to get the rights to use a song that was heard for a few seconds in the background of an important scene. And that’s an incidental inclusion - I’ve been lead to believe that the rules for using something deliberately included in a work are more stringent.
    Which is pretty damn stupid. Because any song less than 30 seconds long is considered free use-- though sadly the courts don't uphold that rule anymore (remember the little girl dancing to music on Youtube for 28 seconds?)
    I can't say I'm the least bit happy about Obama capituating to the RIAA and MPAA nearly as much as he does, either. In fact, I'm downright disappointed. As a Gen Xer, he should know better than to give them such far-reaching power with "guilty until proven innocent" expansions (sorry for this off-topic rant)

    For example, see the various themed free resources lists that I maintain on the Freepozitory. I don’t get paid for my work there, either in money or in product. But I get the rewards of “satisfaction of a job well done” and “knowledge that my efforts help others.” For some people, that’s enough - especially in a hobbyist community such as this one.
    I don't know how much it contributes (esp. if you already provide freebies on Sharecg or Renderosity), but it also showcases your work-- a sampling of your abilities. This can foster trust and get some people interested in purchasing your products.

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,647
    edited December 1969

    As long as the zip contains a text file with the license terms, that should be all you need.

    Some clients won't accept a simple read me text. They want an invoice and some tangible proof that the item used was properly purchased for commercial use. I know it doesn't make sense and you can either waste time trying to explain or just (in our case fortunately} spend their money and hand them a stack of invoices along with copies the various EULA's.

    Legal just keeps telling us it's a by-product of our litigious society.

Sign In or Register to comment.