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Difference between Sickleyield's Ultra Templates and Clones?

BamboozlerBamboozler Posts: 249
in The Commons

Could someone familiar with these products help me out? I'm new to Daz and just figuring things out.

I'm trying to discern the difference between these two products:

https://www.daz3d.com/sy-victoria-4-and-michael-4-clones-for-genesis-8

https://www.daz3d.com/sy-ultra-templates-genesis-8-female-s

I get that one is a clone for male and female V4/M4 to Gen8, and the other is specifically for Gen8 females, but other than that, how does the functionality differ? The bulk of my products are either Gen8 or V4/M4, so being able to use the older clothes on the newer models would be fantastic. A few clothing items I can finagle with fitting to the model, but most leave a lot to be desired. 

But I can't puzzle out what's different between the two products, from a functional standpoint. Or is it just that one is for the female version of everything prior to Gen8, while the other is male and female specifically for V4/M4, making it a question not of what the product does, but who it's for?

Thank you for any expertise you can offer!

 

 

Comments

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586

    They're complementary, meaning that if you use the clones to fit the clothes, the templates give you extra fitting options instead of the limited selection you get with just the clones.

  • BamboozlerBamboozler Posts: 249
    Daywalker Designs said:

    They're complementary, meaning that if you use the clones to fit the clothes, the templates give you extra fitting options instead of the limited selection you get with just the clones.

    Thanks, Daywalker Designs. So the clones are only for matching the form's size specs, and the ultra templates are for the function/posing? Meaning that for full use of the clothes, you really need both?

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,763
    edited March 2018

    Autofit works in 2 steps :

    • Alter the mesh so that it ifitst the right size / shape for the new figure: that's where the clones are used
    • Rig the altered mesh automatically so that it's now conforming: that's where templates are used. Different templates are used for different kind of items

     So yes, both kind of products can be useful.

    Post edited by Leana on
  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    Bamboozler said:
    Daywalker Designs said:

    They're complementary, meaning that if you use the clones to fit the clothes, the templates give you extra fitting options instead of the limited selection you get with just the clones.

    Thanks, Daywalker Designs. So the clones are only for matching the form's size specs, and the ultra templates are for the function/posing? Meaning that for full use of the clothes, you really need both?

    You don't need both, but having the templates can improve the way certain items fit, such as skirts and dresses.

  • BamboozlerBamboozler Posts: 249

    Thanks for the advice! 

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,843

    The V4 and M4 clones come with fixer templates also. I find the V4 ones for G8 to be defective though, so buyer beware. The V4 one if highly distorted and the cloths fit horribly compared to autofitting to G3, saving and then autofitting to G8. I spent several weeks going back and forth with support trying to get a fix, but QA seems to think there isn't a problem (Emmalee in support was extremely helpful though!)

    Here is the proof. G3 in yellow, G8 in green. With just the V4 clones dialed in, you can see how warped the G8 clone is. Now autofitting the V4 leotard bodysuit, you can see the near perfect fit on G3, whereas the fit on G8 is loose, distorted, especially in the arms and around the breasts and the mesh is breaking, not good.

    clones3.jpg
    1313 x 861 - 341K
    clonefit3.jpg
    1533 x 863 - 312K
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,649
    FSMCDesigns said:

    The V4 and M4 clones come with fixer templates also. I find the V4 ones for G8 to be defective though, so buyer beware. The V4 one if highly distorted and the cloths fit horribly compared to autofitting to G3, saving and then autofitting to G8. I spent several weeks going back and forth with support trying to get a fix, but QA seems to think there isn't a problem (Emmalee in support was extremely helpful though!)

    Here is the proof. G3 in yellow, G8 in green. With just the V4 clones dialed in, you can see how warped the G8 clone is. Now autofitting the V4 leotard bodysuit, you can see the near perfect fit on G3, whereas the fit on G8 is loose, distorted, especially in the arms and around the breasts and the mesh is breaking, not good.

    Yes, I saw that bug report.  And the distortions are 100% deliberate.  You've left out that other V4 garments when autofitted tend to acquire a "keel" under the breasts without massive smoothing on any looser blouse; mine doesn't.  Other V4 clones on autofit tend to produce triangulation that is very severe on skirts and dresses; mine doesn't.  I had to choose.  I could make a clone that fit tighter garments okay and loose ones not at all, or one that fit looser garments better and tighter ones not as well.  I chose Option 2 because V4 has so many great dress and coat ensembles and these are rarer than scantier clothing in every generation. 

    It's possible at some point I might make a free update with a "tighter" clone, since a few people have complained that their skimpier clothes fit badly, but I can't prioritize it over paying projects.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,843
    SickleYield said:
    FSMCDesigns said:

    The V4 and M4 clones come with fixer templates also. I find the V4 ones for G8 to be defective though, so buyer beware. The V4 one if highly distorted and the cloths fit horribly compared to autofitting to G3, saving and then autofitting to G8. I spent several weeks going back and forth with support trying to get a fix, but QA seems to think there isn't a problem (Emmalee in support was extremely helpful though!)

    Here is the proof. G3 in yellow, G8 in green. With just the V4 clones dialed in, you can see how warped the G8 clone is. Now autofitting the V4 leotard bodysuit, you can see the near perfect fit on G3, whereas the fit on G8 is loose, distorted, especially in the arms and around the breasts and the mesh is breaking, not good.

    Yes, I saw that bug report.  And the distortions are 100% deliberate.  You've left out that other V4 garments when autofitted tend to acquire a "keel" under the breasts without massive smoothing on any looser blouse; mine doesn't.  Other V4 clones on autofit tend to produce triangulation that is very severe on skirts and dresses; mine doesn't.  I had to choose.  I could make a clone that fit tighter garments okay and loose ones not at all, or one that fit looser garments better and tighter ones not as well.  I chose Option 2 because V4 has so many great dress and coat ensembles and these are rarer than scantier clothing in every generation. 

    It's possible at some point I might make a free update with a "tighter" clone, since a few people have complained that their skimpier clothes fit badly, but I can't prioritize it over paying projects.

    Thanks for the response SY and I see what you went for, but I don't use many dresses or coat ensembles so that doesn't help me. I do appreciate the product and wanted a fix over a refund, but sadly that wasn't the case.

  • BamboozlerBamboozler Posts: 249
    SickleYield said:
    FSMCDesigns said:
      I could make a clone that fit tighter garments okay and loose ones not at all, or one that fit looser garments better and tighter ones not as well.  I chose Option 2 because V4 has so many great dress and coat ensembles and these are rarer than scantier clothing in every generation. 

    It's possible at some point I might make a free update with a "tighter" clone, since a few people have complained that their skimpier clothes fit badly, but I can't prioritize it over paying projects.

    I can see how you'd need to choose the method that makes the most sense. In my case, I do mostly military and sci-fi stuff, so other than capes/cloaks/coats, most of my clothes fit close to the body. (So it isn't just skimpwear that would benefit from a close-fitting option update.) I'd love to see that update sometime. :)

     

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 3,039
    Bamboozler said:
    SickleYield said:
    FSMCDesigns said:
      I could make a clone that fit tighter garments okay and loose ones not at all, or one that fit looser garments better and tighter ones not as well.  I chose Option 2 because V4 has so many great dress and coat ensembles and these are rarer than scantier clothing in every generation. 

    It's possible at some point I might make a free update with a "tighter" clone, since a few people have complained that their skimpier clothes fit badly, but I can't prioritize it over paying projects.

    I can see how you'd need to choose the method that makes the most sense. In my case, I do mostly military and sci-fi stuff, so other than capes/cloaks/coats, most of my clothes fit close to the body. (So it isn't just skimpwear that would benefit from a close-fitting option update.) I'd love to see that update sometime. :)

     

    I have to ring out a GLOWING endorsement for how it works with capes for Sy, I am VERY happy with the way supercapes look. i spent a LOT of time converting old M4 capes to G3M and her ultratemplates help a LOT! :)

  • grinch2901grinch2901 Posts: 1,247
    SickleYield said:
    FSMCDesigns said:

    The V4 and M4 clones come with fixer templates also. I find the V4 ones for G8 to be defective though, so buyer beware. The V4 one if highly distorted and the cloths fit horribly compared to autofitting to G3, saving and then autofitting to G8. I spent several weeks going back and forth with support trying to get a fix, but QA seems to think there isn't a problem (Emmalee in support was extremely helpful though!)

    Here is the proof. G3 in yellow, G8 in green. With just the V4 clones dialed in, you can see how warped the G8 clone is. Now autofitting the V4 leotard bodysuit, you can see the near perfect fit on G3, whereas the fit on G8 is loose, distorted, especially in the arms and around the breasts and the mesh is breaking, not good.

    Yes, I saw that bug report.  And the distortions are 100% deliberate.  You've left out that other V4 garments when autofitted tend to acquire a "keel" under the breasts without massive smoothing on any looser blouse; mine doesn't.  Other V4 clones on autofit tend to produce triangulation that is very severe on skirts and dresses; mine doesn't.  I had to choose.  I could make a clone that fit tighter garments okay and loose ones not at all, or one that fit looser garments better and tighter ones not as well.  I chose Option 2 because V4 has so many great dress and coat ensembles and these are rarer than scantier clothing in every generation. 

    It's possible at some point I might make a free update with a "tighter" clone, since a few people have complained that their skimpier clothes fit badly, but I can't prioritize it over paying projects.

    In the category of "there's someone for everything" the fact that you made it specifically to fit looser clothing like coats actually makes me MORE likely to buy it. I do have a few good V4 coats and almost nothing for G3F.  Also some other loose stuff like military gear. Would like to be able to put that stuff back in play. 

    On a related note, I recently bought the new G8 clones for G3 and there are lots of options in the templates drop down in autofit, not sure what they all do yet so need to read the documentation but so far, quite happy.

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    for fit fixes,

    The SY Decrackifiers are awesome.

    Would love a pectoral fixer for the male figures. 
    Gianni would like some soft fitting frumpy sweater shirts!! heart


    is there a masculinizer product version for G3M?

  • fastbike1fastbike1 Posts: 4,078

    @Mistara

    https://www.daz3d.com/fit-control-for-genesis-8-males

    https://www.daz3d.com/fit-control-for-genesis-3-male-s

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 4,971
    Mistara said:
     

    is there a masculinizer product version for G3M?

    It's at Renderosity, for all three Genesis generations.

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    thanks smiley  woot.  goin to surch the other place

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    FSMCDesigns said:

    The V4 and M4 clones come with fixer templates also. I find the V4 ones for G8 to be defective though, so buyer beware. The V4 one if highly distorted and the cloths fit horribly compared to autofitting to G3, saving and then autofitting to G8. I spent several weeks going back and forth with support trying to get a fix, but QA seems to think there isn't a problem (Emmalee in support was extremely helpful though!)

    Here is the proof. G3 in yellow, G8 in green. With just the V4 clones dialed in, you can see how warped the G8 clone is. Now autofitting the V4 leotard bodysuit, you can see the near perfect fit on G3, whereas the fit on G8 is loose, distorted, especially in the arms and around the breasts and the mesh is breaking, not good.

    That looks like what you get from normal maps that have detail to affect that area that is meant for larger breasts.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    nicstt said:
    FSMCDesigns said:

    The V4 and M4 clones come with fixer templates also. I find the V4 ones for G8 to be defective though, so buyer beware. The V4 one if highly distorted and the cloths fit horribly compared to autofitting to G3, saving and then autofitting to G8. I spent several weeks going back and forth with support trying to get a fix, but QA seems to think there isn't a problem (Emmalee in support was extremely helpful though!)

    Here is the proof. G3 in yellow, G8 in green. With just the V4 clones dialed in, you can see how warped the G8 clone is. Now autofitting the V4 leotard bodysuit, you can see the near perfect fit on G3, whereas the fit on G8 is loose, distorted, especially in the arms and around the breasts and the mesh is breaking, not good.

    That looks like what you get from normal maps that have detail to affect that area that is meant for larger breasts.

    It comes from an incredibly distorted autofit clone. Luckily there is a way to easily make working V4 and M4 (and F4 and H4 and A4...) clones from the Genesis versions. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/193296/freebie-how-to-create-a-v4-clone-and-transfer-other-figures-for-g8f/p1

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