Micropressure morphs.
7thOmen
Posts: 47
in The Commons
Greetings all.
Over time, I have seen products that include micropressure morphs. These morphs add another depth of realism to a rendered figure.
I would like to learn how to create such morphs for my own uses. I have searched for a how-to, but apparently my google-fu is weak.
Can anyone possibly point me in the direction of a quality how-to (or two) so that I can achieve my goals.
If it mattters, I have Hexagon (that can actually run from time to time) and Blender at my disposal.
Thanks in advance,
Omen
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Can you give some examples of what you want to achieve? Maybe some renders you have seen which show what you want to do.
I am looking for the ability to add micropressure to clothing items in a similar fashion to OutofTouch products like this .
In this day of leggings as a fashion statement, I have observed the wearers with higher body fat indexes tend to have (how to put this nicely...) flesh bulge or rolls at the waist and sometimes the calves. Of course, the same effect for swimwear, lingerie, and other form fitting articles of clothing. I would even consider the straps on shoes, the band of a wristwatch, the tops of tube socks, etc. Basically, anything a male or female might wear that would be snugged up for a tighter fit.
When I look at the clothing offered here and abroad, most just seem to defy gravity and just hang on the body(often with gaps) in the correct place no matter the actors position or pose. Yeah, I'd loose my breeches if they weren't snugged up to my hips, and that creates pressure on the associated areas of skin. I would like to be able to re-create this.
Since Daz has us on Genesis 8, that would be the figure base that I intend to begin learning with.
Thanks!
Omen
Probably not going to happen unless you have access to HD morphs and for that you would have to be a PA. Even then I think you wouldn't be allowed to use this for private purposes, only for products that are actually going to be sold here.
I certianly see what you are saying and I think that a morph how-to like I am asking for would allow you to reduce the tight fit look as well. Another thing that this example shows is that the torso covering articles should have some morphs since the more rigid elements would certianly press into the skin.
Omen
My guess is that the 'Micro Pressure HD' morphs are simply well-sculpted morphs on a base figure, such as Genesis 8 Female, that correspond with the same placement as the clothing they're made for.
These products have Micro Pressure HD features — most are by outoftouch, one is by EcVho (with a link to it's release discussion):
https://www.daz3d.com/active-lingerie-for-genesis-8-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/velocity-outfit-for-genesis-8-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/lainey-lingerie-for-genesis-8-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/georgia-lingerie-for-genesis-3-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/palm-bikini-for-genesis-8-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/beast-mode-sporty-outfit-for-genesis-8-female-s
https://download.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/197111/released-beast-mode-sporty-outfit-for-genesis-8-female-commerical
The use of JCMs and MCMs (joint-controlled morphs and morph-controlled morphs) may also be useful for Micro Pressure HD uses...
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/39795/creating-joint-controlled-morphs
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/assembling/tutorials/creating_morph_controlled_morphs/start
Another method could be the use of Normal Maps (which displace geometry) that could make more detailed indentations on the body when combined with higher subdivisions on the base model.
I would guess either of these methods, morphs or normal maps, could be made in Hexagon or Blender, though I would guess that many of the top vendors are probably using ZBrush for this sort of thing.
That's VERY disconcerting, but might also explain why I struggled to find any information on how to achieve my goals. I haven't the time nor the inclination to be a PA, so I guess I am finally seeing Daz Studios' limitations.
I suppose that this same answer will apply to wanting to make morphs to represent skin folding/wrinkling as the body is turned and twisted.
Omen
We might be getting somewhere.
I wonder if the ever-helpful and extremely patient @Sickleyield might care to weigh in on this? Perhaps we might hear from @EcVho about his/her process?
Omen
In any case this would be custom sculpt that you make yourself. It needs to be at fairly high subdivision because the clothing isn't going to follow the topology of the figure. Instead of HD morphs I guess you could bake out a normal map (not going to show in the silhouette though) or a displacement map. Honestly I don't think it's worth the effort. Could probably fake it a bit in Photoshop if needed.
have you tried using d-former for that? It surely is tricky with a surface like skin but it should have enough polys to try. Closest thing I did (a long time ago) was with the tartans of these guys bulging over the belt, the green one turned out better.
@Linwelly
That was my first thought, as I am certianly no stranger to D-Formers. That is so tedious, though. I was hoping to make a morph (in a suitable modeling program) that can follow the clothing item anywhere it is used.
Since I have to start somewhere, I'll try this option first. If my patience (and coffee) run out, I suppose I get to see just how severely I can break the Genesis 8 meshes in Blender.
Thanks!
Omen
Another important application for this kind of morphs, IMO, is to add realism to people interactions: the poses in which a figure touches another, in example when thitghly grabbing someone other's arm, would need the grabbed arm to deform under the pressure of the fingers; or, another example, when somebody sits of a soft mattress or cushion. The ideal tool would be something thad adds a deformation with the shape of the "pressing entity" to the "pressed item". I don't have much practice with D-formers, so far, and yet don't know if it would be possibile to replicate such an effect using them. I surely would pay for a tool doing this work fine. I know there's something on the store that could be maybe working more or less that way, but have to verify if it does exactly what I mean, yet.
There is one product for G3F which combines some morphs similar to those micropressure morphs which come with recent outoftouch cloths: https://www.daz3d.com/realfit-hdl
They're just morphs. If you look at them in the data files you will see that they have a .dhdm file next to the .dsf file, indicating an HD morph. It's now possible to have a clothing item trigger a morph on the figure using a Wearables preset, and that's what these artists have done.
Micro pressure morphs? Seriously? Wouldn't that be more like the effect of a mosquito landing on the end of your nose? Hey, marketeers, how about localized pressure morphs if you really must have a term, or would that be too accurate and non-superlative.
Sorry, folks, but sometimes the madness just touches a nerve. I'll be quiet now.
The problem in Iray is that there is no micro displacement, so displacement is rarely going to be finely detailed enough without a lot of work.
But you could probably set up something in 3dl
Is this a confirmation that the PA-only HD assets are required to create this style of morph?
My initial experimentation has shown that the G8 mesh isn't quite up to the task. Location is everything, some attempts have put the 'squeeze' location right in the center of a series mesh faces. Obviously, pressing in on faces creates an indent far too great to represent the effect I'm after. I need to continue to experiment with this and Sub-D.
Omen
You could get the benefits of higher resolution, without the HD tools, by creating a geograft of the required bodypart . The geograft can be subdivided to whatever resolution you wish, so long as the edge vertices line up exactly with the matching vertices on the original mesh..
You would need the uvmapping of the geograft to match the uvmapping of the bodypart it replaces so that the texture of the original bodypart can be applied to your geograft. With care it can be done.
You can then create morphs for your geografted part, and it will also follow any morphs you apply to the bodypart it has replaced.
Generally the geograft has to match the subD of the body. If it doesn't, you either have triangles as it propagates out from the edge that matches to the parts that don't, or you have gaps at the edges because the number of vertices is not the same.
EDIT:
It might be possible to do something like the AlfaSeed morphs without the HD morph loader that only PAs can use, if you do it at the edge of an edge loop where you can just drag the next edge loop outward and down (and it will smooth out on SubD). Otherwise it's going to be hard to do that because there just aren't that many faces and verts on the base body.
HD morphs would not drive this type of morph at all. HD gives the **appearance** to more resolution, but it does not affect clothing... at all. What's driving the morph is a low poly morph because again genesis is low poly. Anything that affects it has to be low poly as well, whether it be a low poly morph or a projection morph. Once the low poly morphs does its work, then HD or a normal map would give that low poly morph a look of more detail.
What would really need to be available is some type of soft body physics that would work with generic clothing.
It doesn't need to affect the clothing. It needs to affect the skin around clothing.
Which HD doesn't do. It's a detail pass based on a low poly morph.
Again, HD doesn't affect a thing. Low poly morphs is what drives everything in genesis. You don't sculpt a subd morph first on genesis, ever... you do a low poly morph and use that to add your detail.
And adding indents caused by clothing (or other things) to a mesh which didn't have real vertices in the right place would be adding detail. It's not terribly relevant since Daz has been clear that their HD tools will not be made generally available, but that doesn't stop it from being an answer (as would displacement).
Another point is that even if you were a PA and created 'tight clothing' HD morphs (which would probably require everything outside of the clothed area to be projected outward a little, so that fitting happened properly), it would only work for one specific outfit. Another outfit would have an edge somewhere else, and so it wouldn't work.
You really need some sort of dynamic element. A push or dForm map (as previously mentioned) is probably your best bet for a solution that will work for a specific situation.
I'd create a push weight modifier node, set the value to .1 or so, then paint in 0 value where the clothes cover.
https://www.daz3d.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/0/3/03--morphhd-holoflow-daz3d.jpg
And I just told you how that works. That's a low poly morph with detail pass with HD. A normal map would do something similar.
I know how HD morphs work, I use them all the time. Look at the topology in that area and you will see that you are wrong. Clothing compression morphs is one of the few cases where I would NOT start at the base level unless the geometry just happened to be in the right place. I've never used HD for this but my guess would be somewhere level 2 to 4 is where you would have to be to do this.
I'm telling you how HD works. You are free to send a message to PA support to confirm what I said. A low poly morph is setting up what the HD detail pass is showing, whether it's a regular morph or a projection morph. It's a low poly morph. The other alternative is if that morph is actually in the clothing that makes it looks like it's pressing against the skin.
Low poly morph on what? The topology that goes completely counter to where this compression effect needs to be? You're not gonna achieve anything at the lowest level.