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I do mostly straight up unaltered product-showing promos but do try to include one or two artsy ones. Mostly just because it's fun but also in the hope it may be fodder for the imagination. See last promo of Sahel for example.
It may be a little off topic but I find the information very valuable and could lead to promo images (maybe). Thank you for sharing this. Beta testing is another topic that is interesting to me. Since getting back into the swing of my art, it's been a lot of quiet hours to myself relearning and expanding skills. One day I may look into seeing how to be involved in that sort of testing of products.
The image of her crouching? Yes. I very much enjoy that image. As the watcher of the moment, I don't know what is going to happen next but certaily something is going to happen. It doesn't detract from the product at all. it inspires me to see what I could do with the product.
She's got a bow, she's none too amused. I'd say better buy her before something bad happens.
A point well taken. :)
I would never expect my beta tester to buy the product once it's in the store, he puts in way too many hours testing each one, he's more than earned that much.. plus my eternal gratitude and adoration. That being said, its very hard to to find testers that will actually test properly or in a timely manner, once you find one you hang on to them.
I haven't done testing. However, I think I would feel guilty about getting something for free. My time is not that valuable when I am at home (day job is a different story). I honestly see it as putting a second set of eyes on something and 'trying to break' the product so that the content artist gets that viewpoint and can improve or not based on the feedback provided.
This is kind of off topic but not exactly .. promo renders were to help the content artist and so is testing. So I'm going to go out on a limb and ask what is a good way to offer testing? I'm not well known. I took years away from my art and am only getting back into it. I want to make it a more prominent part of my life. And helping others gives me a good feeling. I have a lot of respect for content creators. They do what I cannot. I'm a user of goods, not a creator of goods.
Just a post offering I guess.. though a lot of us are slow to trust because we've been burned before, and some don't want to deal with the little bit of extra work that goes into keeping NDA if the tester isn't a PA themselves (support morphs for characters not yet released that need to be removed, that sort of thing), it's not a huge amount of effort but takes some forethought beyond just tossing the final zip file at someone to play with. It's also a bit of a learned skill, beyond just using the product as an end user (which is valuable information) there are a lot of things that QA checks for that the average user wouldn't pay attention to or check for, my tester has been working with me for quite a while now so we've pretty much got it down now, but every so often there's something that comes up in QA that neither of us caught and we both learn. Last product it was morphs not showing up in the shaping tab even though they were set up correctly to be there.. we all use the parameters tab, not the shaping tab when using products, so it slipped by us. Just had to resave the figure for it to work, but it meant the product was in QA limbo for another week and a half.
Thank you for your honest insight. My fear of actually putting a post out there is that I wouldn't do a good enough job and would let the content creator down. If there is information to review to become familiar with some of these ins and outs, I'd love to know of it.
This is based on my nearly 10 years of testing experience, but this is my opinon only. Others may disagree. I had only a vague idea of what I was getting into when I first started testing, and I wish someone had told me all of this all that time ago, so... Sorry it's so long. :)
It's the eternal question... You have no experience, so how do you get experience when everyone only wants to "hire" someone already experienced? The answer is perseverance and luck (which no one wants to hear) and an insane capacity for technical skills and attention to detail. And you have to be mindful of NDAs.
Testing is much more than "breaking things." You have to know enough about what you're testing to know HOW to break it (how it was built, how it is packaged, brokerage-specific criteria, how it's supposed to function, common pitfalls, etc.). Being a good tester is constantly learning new things (as Fisty said). Learn everything you can about the applications you want to test in (DS, Poser, others...). Learn everything you can about how products are modeled, rigged, textured, packaged, how they behave in different applications, etc. The more you put into learning the technical details, the more tools you'll have in your testing arsenal and the better tester you will be. Practice your diplomacy skills (some vendors can be very difficult to work with, but fortunately those are few and far between, but it's still an excellent skill to have).
I'm also going to throw this out there as an acknowledged snarl of sorts. I see a lot of new or potential future vendors post that they need beta testers. I see a lot of the responses are people with no "real" testing experience (I was one of them once, too). New vendor + new tester = recipe for potential disaster (sometimes it works out ok, but...). It's like the blind leading the blind. I know that sounds harsh, but testing is part of a business process involving REAL money because the vendor is ultimately hoping to get paid for their product and if it's poorly tested and submitted with a lot of issues, brokerages will reject it.
Established vendors and all the brokerages I've tested for are a different creature altogether. You almost have to know someone or you have to have good, visible previous testing experience to get a foot in the door (because as previously said, once you find good testers that you can work with, you never let them go, and references from them are worth their weight in gold). Brokerage testing is like applying for a job. If your CV doesn't say the right things, you don't get hired.
Testing is a LOT of work. Please, never say your time isn't valuable enough to get paid for what you test. My time is valuable whether it's the day job or testing in my free time. Saying you will work for free damages things for those of us that work for pay (whether that pay is in product or actual $). We EARN what we're compensated for testing. And vendors get what they pay for.
And let's not forget about burnout. Testing to a deadline is tough and takes a special devotion and mindset. That can take its toll. It takes a special type of individual to continue to throw themselves at product testing week after week after year after year. Is this something you want to devote your free time to? How much free time do you have? Can you see yourself doing this in for a year? Five? Ten? Do technical skills and fiddly details scare you? These are good questions to consider before you decide to do anything because it will drive what you're capable of giving to a vendor in your testing.
If you can find a good, established tester with a lot of free time, perhaps you can approach them and see if they'll take you under their wing and "train" you in common testing procedures. If you get the newsletters from the major brokerages, sometimes they put out a call for testers (not often, but it does happen), so maybe watch for that and take a chance and apply if you see one. If you post in a forum that you're willing to test, make sure you let them know you have no testing experience but are willing to learn and make sure you specify which applications you can test in.
Product creation is an artform, but so is testing, albeit a technical one. Please don't take this as trying to discourage you in any way. There's just a lot to consider if you really want to start testing.
Remember though that Daz has their own QA team including testers. Every product goes through pretty extensive testing.
Thank you for sharing your insight borne of experience. I didn't expect it to be easy because, as the saying goes, everyone would be doing it. My testing experience is in software, specifically SharePoint sites, and end user experience with the sites. We had specific testing scenarios to explore and then the 'off the rails' stuff to try to 'break' it as I had stated before (SharePoint is not hard to break).
I do have a lot of learning ahead of me. It would be sweet, in the future, to find a content creator/testor team that would be willing to show a new guy the ropes.
I'm still far from that. I'm still fighting with IRAY and trying to let it know I'm the boss.
@Sabu Taru - excellent post.
@illysArt, hello, and welcome back to 3d. I had a look at your gallery. I would say you have some good stuff there. A shot like this one would be excellent to show off a weapon set. https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/522246/
This one is good for showing off an outfit. https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/522256. This one is good for showing off lighting. https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/522276
The first thing a PA looks for in considering someone they don't already know for either testing or doing promo work is a gallery, so you are off to a good start. Keep rendering and fill up your gallery with pretty pictures. Please also credit the items you use in your pictures because popular images get flagged to the vendors whose work you used, and they come and look. Also, posting pictures in the various render threads, crediting the products and vendors is good too. A vendor doing a forum search for their name or latest product will see what you have done. A gallery of work is your resume. It shows that you know how to use the software and content, how to properly light a scene, and gives an overall idea of your artistic style and interests. Every picture you make increases your skills and takes you closer from being a beginner user to an experienced user.
Lastly, if you do get asked to do artistic promo images or product testing, it is WORK. It may be work that you enjoy doing, but it is work. The MINIMUM you should expect to get paid is free product and gratitute. Don't feel guilty about that. I feel guilty that is usually all I can afford to pay my own testers. There is also usually a quick turn around required. Vendors are always on a time crunch to get the product submitted, so waiting two weeks for a testing report or image is not going to happen. We are looking at typically a 2 day turn-around on the outside. You have to consider if that timeline fits in with your day job.
I'll personally be keeping you in mind for possible artistic images in the future, because I really hate doing them. Best of luck and happy rendering.
Hello @DestinysGarden,
Thank you for your input and your comments on my images in the gallery. I am trying to step up my game and knowing what you thought of different images and the potential use is very helpful.
Although I do have a day job, I work from home 3 days a week and have no children or spouse or pet (unless you count the parakeets) to demand my time. I understand the idea of work even if it's fun. That's my day job in all honesty. I've always wanted to be a writer and I've managed to achieve it. Stressful? Sometimes. Fun? All the time! Draining? Oh yeahh.. but in a good way.
I appreciate your thought about keeping me in mind. If I am unable to help due to a sudden drain on my time, I'd be very up-front about it. Have a wonderful day.
In the freebie forum (as well as here sometimes), there are PAs and aspiring PAs that ask for testing help and such. Perhaps you could off your help to them and pick up some skills in the process? Check this thread, for example: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/230271/free-comission-what-clothes-do-you-want#latest
Thank you, @Worlds_Edge
I'm finding it's not always what you know but where to go to find out what you don't know. And the generous folk here (like yourself) have ideas on that.
People need to stop feeling like they're somehow overpaid getting less than minimum wage.
For me, sometimes the art image on a product sparks a bit of imagination with that character as the starting point. I like the idea of 'how to' in that instance then taking that to really take off with the imagination train for destinations unknown.
Recreating pre-existing designs/images can be really educational sometimes because you end up learning to look at the bits and pieces and parts of the image instead of just being dazzled by the whole.
Pretty pictures can sell things, its that simple. Just look at what sells most in this store, pretty women with pretty clothes. You obviously need some pretty promos for those pretty things.
But IMO the best mix it up. You have a couple of pretty promos to show what this product can do, followed by more practical promos that show off the nuts and bolts of the what the product actually does or has. For me, personally, if it is a character I like to see at least one or two images that are more plain and bare with little to no hair to show off the head shape and texture. As well as an image with no makeup or facial hair if there is such an option. The same holds for other products, too. Just have a mix of promos that do both, and I think it will demonstrate what can be done and increase its chances of selling better.
I have no issue with other people doing promos besides PAs. Some PAs do not have monster computers for rendering, and are handicapped by time restraints. The idea that a PA should be able to get the most out of their product is actually a negative to me, because hey...what does that mean for me??? So if other people make promos, that actually makes me think "hey, maybe I can do that after all..."
That's how I see it, too. Especially if those other people are not PAs themselves. That is also why I like to look at the images people post in the forums and galleries before I jump to purchase a new thing, especially a character.
You might try hooking up with Brandy at Sympatico Studio for promo work.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/SympaticoStudio/about
They do more artistic renders and promote them. Some really great work that gets shared all over FB.
We're just people too. There is nothing special about us. A lot of us started off as customers.
The term 'Published Artist' probably does give the impression to a lot of people though that it's your artistic talents and what you can do with your product that have earned you the label rather than your content creation skills.
Edited to add that that's a general, PA 'you' rather than one aimed at you personally :)
You can learn a lot from the way a PA sets up a scene for rendering. I like it when a PA includes scene files for the promos. It doesn't mean I will render that scene exactly, but it is a good starting point to understand how to use the product.
I love looking at artistic promos, but they mean a lot less to me without the technical-type promos. It's always nice to see what the PA/hired artist can do with a product, but it's the stuff that helps me to see what I can do with the product myself that persuades me to buy. I'm not into recreating someone else's work, but agree that seeing how it was done could be a big help to me in creating my own.
Pretty pictures are usually when I start to dig deeper, because if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.
I prefer a more unbiased review-style product page. I want to know what it can and cannot do. If it's a building, I want to know if it's an exterior-only setup, and the inside is hollow. Not "empty but you can put furniture in it", but hollow like a shell that's meant to be viewed only from the outside because it has mesh groups that intersect with other mesh groups.
There's a fantasy castle out there that looks nice, until you try to open the front door; it doesn't open, because it's part of the wall, and the interior wall which should be a courtyard has a secondary wall running between the inner door and outer door, which is another reason they don't open.
But it looks nice from the outside.
If it's a button-front shirt, I want to know if it cannot be unbuttoned completely. If it's a pair of pants, I want to know if it can't be unzipped or otherwise doesn't have an undressing morph.
I want to know a product's functionality level, because that will influence whether I buy or not, and if I buy blind once and feel like the lack of functionality wasn't worth the price, I make a note to myself to not shop with that artist again. I also point out what limitations I've found with the product in question. If it's a case of said artist not advancing in their craft to the point where they are adding functionality, I note that as well. You can stagnate if you want, if it makes you happy. I will gladly relay that info to potential buyers so they can make a more informed decision than I was afforded. My money is just as important to me as a content creator's is to them. I want to spend my money on the items that will serve my needs, and not just allow me to recreate the pretty promo scene.