OT Old Tyme Computing For only $5995

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Comments

  • DrNewcensteinDrNewcenstein Posts: 816
    edited January 2018
    hphoenix said:
    Remember mimeograph machines?  The smelly purple ink and the stained fingers?

    It was a sad day in Jr High when the Xerox replaced the mimeograph. No more cheap ink-huffing highs. Test scores across the campus fell dramatically after that day.

    Post edited by DrNewcenstein on
  • OstadanOstadan Posts: 1,130

    LeatherGryphon, ARPANET Host #1 (UCLA-NMC) was an SDS Sigma-7.  The woman who happened to be in the computer room the day one of the RADs had a head crash said that it sounded like someone stumbling through a lot of (metal) garbage cans.

    It ran a one-of-a-kind operating system, called the Sigma EXecutive, or SEX.  And so there were SEX manuals, advice on SEX techniques ('programming, that is'), etc.

  • Add a decimal and make it 59.95 but it is still too expensive for my taste.   My current computer is not worth $5,995 and is better than the op’s computer.  

     

    I wonder how powerful a $5995 computer would be today.  (But how long would that last being a super computer?)

    A $6K computer these days is easy to build. Latest Intel i7 that supports 40 PCI lanes, mobo that supports the chip and its functions, most RAM it can hold, biggest SSD drives they make, and 2 TitanXp and you're pretty much there. No printer, no optical drive, and you better have a monitor/TV already. If you did have anything left, dump it into another GPU.

    Or just buy the latest MacPro? Useful software will cost extra, though. ProTools, video editing, the things you do when you want your computer to do more than your phone does.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,176
    edited January 2018

    Remember the lines to use the keypunch

    hphoenix said:

    I've read a story about those crazy IT folks somewhere getting their washing machine sized HDs to do races, by writing code that did reads in a fashion, that the constant starting and stopping made the HDs go schwiiiiing and start to slide around... until one got stuck in a doorframe. Probably pure fantasy, I'd say, right?

    Nope, I've 'walked' those old DEC RP05 & RP06 hard drives ( http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/rp06.html ).  They looked almost identical to a top-load washing machine.  To protect the platters, there were built-in commands to PARK the heads (huge solenoid on the head arm pivot) and to increase speed, there was a SEEKTOCENTER command built in as well.  When you executed these the machine would make a loud THUNK noise, and it would jolt the whole frame of the drive.

    So you write a little program/script to send the right commands depending on which direction you wanted to 'walk' the drive (forward or backward)......To walk it forward, you'd do a SEEKTOCENTER, followed by a set of seeks further outward on the platter, then repeat.  To go backward, you simply would do regular seeks from the outer part of the platter inward, then send a PARK command, then repeat.  With the right timing, it would literally cause the drive to edge forward/backward unless it was bolted down.

     

    Greymom said:

    They also tried to pawn off a huge old PDP-8 with magnetic core plane memory.  Even I am not that much of a hoarder.  Still have one of the old core plane memory boards.  You can literally see each bit, a little magnetic toroid.

    I had a couple of PDP-8s long ago.  An 8a and an 8f.   One had a Paper-tape reader, the other had a DECtape drive.  Each tape could store a whopping 78KB of data!  Of course, to boot the machine you still had to toggle in the RIM loader on the front panel switches...... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-8

    Yep, Core Memory.  The PDP-8f had (IIRC) 4KB of core memory.  And it ran EDUSystem/10, a multi-user timesharing OS.  That's right, with only 4k of memory, it would support up to 10 simultaneous users.

    And PaperTape storage.....this was on the PDP-11/70 at the university I used:  http://retrocmp.com/stories/dec-pc05-papertape/239-dec-pc05-paper-tape-reader-puncher

     

    Mistara said:

    remember the sound of a dot matrix printer?

    the squelsh of 1200 baud

    the smell of carbon paper

    the paper cuts of greenbar paper

    Dot matrix?  Try a DRUM Printer.  http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/lp20.html ; Sounded like a machine-gun being fired when printing.  Had a daisy-wheel for each of 132 columns, which would rotate and all of them would then smack through a ribbon on the paper at once.  And my first modem was a Hayes 300 Smartmodem External.  Carbon Paper?  Remember mimeograph machines?  The smelly purple ink and the stained fingers?

    In 1968 my college had an IBM-1130 computer with an IBM 1402 (I think) printer that was a chain printer with a couple copies of the character set on the chain.  As a character came into position along the horizontally rotating chain line a hammer would fire and imprint the charcter onto the paper.  At any one instant any character of the chain that was in position would fire its hammer but statistically not more than 10 at a time.  One of the first tricks the clever boys in the computer room came up with was writing a program to fire all 132 hammers to hit all 132 characters across the chain simultaneously and sequentially.  WHAM, WHAM, WHAM, WHAM,...,  Can you say rapid fire machine gun?  Much fun until we were ordered not to, on pain of expulsion from the computer room and threat of paying for replacing a broken chain or chain transport mechanism or fried hammer electronics.

    What is wrong with the teenage brain? devil

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • ArtisanSArtisanS Posts: 209

    My first computer was a PC1500 by sharp......basically a basic programmable pocket calculator. Handy little machine. Made a lot of freinds with it, since it could spit out statistical plots, cool when I got my masters in biology. Then came the C64, the C128 and a PC AT......the rest is history. And last sunday I bought a mechanical keyboard (Razer Chroma V2 green) and that sounds just like the old IBM keyboard and feels more or less the same, great for gaming and for typing, and I hope it's keys are a match for the onslaught of Blender on the Shift, Alt and CRTL keys.......my last Rapoo keyboard lost it's shift function, so I decided to go all outg on it's replacement in the faint hope that the stack of partially dead keyboards does not grow beyond it's current status anytime soon.

    Greets, ArtisanS.

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,940

    I remember when "Iomega" introduced the 100 mb zip disk/drive
    and many people, in the print shop where I worked, proclaiming
    they will "never need to buy another storage disc"

  • Ostadan said:

    ...a lot of (metal) garbage cans.

    I remember when rubber garbage cans first came out. Our local pickup guys liked to crumple the metal cans against the back of the truck if you didn't put your trash in a bag. Apparently no one told this particular crew about rubber cans, so when he slammed it against the truck, it retaliated. All 3 guys came over to look at it and try their luck at crumpling it. All 3 went away disappointed and with a fresh smack in the face from our brand new rubber trash can.

    Then it became a game of who can punt them into the yard the farthest once they were dumped.

     

     

    wolf359 said:

    I remember when "Iomega" introduced the 100 mb zip disk/drive
    and many people, in the print shop where I worked, proclaiming
    they will "never need to buy another storage disc"

    Imagine being the guy who bought the version that had the parallel port connector instead of serial port. Yup, this guy has a perfectly good Zip100 drive that can't connect to anything.

  • Remember teletype 

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,176
    edited January 2018

    Remember teletype 

    Great device.  You could type anything you wanted as long as it was all upper case characters. frown That and a few special characters and control codes which was all 5-bits would permit.

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,040

    ..I remember loading Windows 3.1 "Insert install disk #9...."

    wolf359 said:

    I remember when "Iomega" introduced the 100 mb zip disk/drive
    and many people, in the print shop where I worked, proclaiming
    they will "never need to buy another storage disc"

    ...felt like that when I bought my old 32 bit notebook with 4 GB of memory and an 8 GB HDD 12 years ago (the previous computer I purchased was a Pentium 133 with 16 MB of memory, a whopping 225 MB HDD, and a 2MB graphics card).

    ...then I got into 3D graphics.

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,456

    Remember the lines to use the keypunch

    hphoenix said:

    I've read a story about those crazy IT folks somewhere getting their washing machine sized HDs to do races, by writing code that did reads in a fashion, that the constant starting and stopping made the HDs go schwiiiiing and start to slide around... until one got stuck in a doorframe. Probably pure fantasy, I'd say, right?

    Nope, I've 'walked' those old DEC RP05 & RP06 hard drives ( http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/rp06.html ).  They looked almost identical to a top-load washing machine.  To protect the platters, there were built-in commands to PARK the heads (huge solenoid on the head arm pivot) and to increase speed, there was a SEEKTOCENTER command built in as well.  When you executed these the machine would make a loud THUNK noise, and it would jolt the whole frame of the drive.

    So you write a little program/script to send the right commands depending on which direction you wanted to 'walk' the drive (forward or backward)......To walk it forward, you'd do a SEEKTOCENTER, followed by a set of seeks further outward on the platter, then repeat.  To go backward, you simply would do regular seeks from the outer part of the platter inward, then send a PARK command, then repeat.  With the right timing, it would literally cause the drive to edge forward/backward unless it was bolted down.

     

    Greymom said:

    They also tried to pawn off a huge old PDP-8 with magnetic core plane memory.  Even I am not that much of a hoarder.  Still have one of the old core plane memory boards.  You can literally see each bit, a little magnetic toroid.

    I had a couple of PDP-8s long ago.  An 8a and an 8f.   One had a Paper-tape reader, the other had a DECtape drive.  Each tape could store a whopping 78KB of data!  Of course, to boot the machine you still had to toggle in the RIM loader on the front panel switches...... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-8

    Yep, Core Memory.  The PDP-8f had (IIRC) 4KB of core memory.  And it ran EDUSystem/10, a multi-user timesharing OS.  That's right, with only 4k of memory, it would support up to 10 simultaneous users.

    And PaperTape storage.....this was on the PDP-11/70 at the university I used:  http://retrocmp.com/stories/dec-pc05-papertape/239-dec-pc05-paper-tape-reader-puncher

     

    Mistara said:

    remember the sound of a dot matrix printer?

    the squelsh of 1200 baud

    the smell of carbon paper

    the paper cuts of greenbar paper

    Dot matrix?  Try a DRUM Printer.  http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/lp20.html ; Sounded like a machine-gun being fired when printing.  Had a daisy-wheel for each of 132 columns, which would rotate and all of them would then smack through a ribbon on the paper at once.  And my first modem was a Hayes 300 Smartmodem External.  Carbon Paper?  Remember mimeograph machines?  The smelly purple ink and the stained fingers?

    In 1968 my college had an IBM-1130 computer with an IBM 1402 (I think) printer that was a chain printer with a couple copies of the character set on the chain.  As a character came into position along the horizontally rotating chain line a hammer would fire and imprint the charcter onto the paper.  At any one instant any character of the chain that was in position would fire its hammer but statistically not more than 10 at a time.  One of the first tricks the clever boys in the computer room came up with was writing a program to fire all 132 hammers to hit all 132 characters across the chain simultaneously and sequentially.  WHAM, WHAM, WHAM, WHAM,...,  Can you say rapid fire machine gun?  Much fun until we were ordered not to, on pain of expulsion from the computer room and threat of paying for replacing a broken chain or chain transport mechanism or fried hammer electronics.

    What is wrong with the teenage brain? devil

    I'm not sure - I wrote one for the 1403 (600 lines per minute, same design) that 'followed' the same character along the print line. Sounded like a giant zipper.

  • The first hard drive I bought was a Western Digital 40 megabyte drive on a card cost me close to $400.00 and everybody was like are you insane you'll never need that big a drive

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,456

    Remember teletype 

    Great device.  You could type anything you wanted as long as it was all upper case characters. frown That and a few special characters and control codes which was all 5-bits would permit.

    The Burroughs medium system series (B-2500 through B-4900) used a teletype as the console - and the operators hated it when my programs generated a console error message. Nulls in the print string caused the head to 'quiver' in place, bell characters caused the bell to ring, and case shift pulsed the type drum up or down. And my error messages started "bell; bell; null; null; bell; upper case; lower case; null; bell" and then the text message.

  • Blind OwlBlind Owl Posts: 504
    wolf359 said:

    I remember when "Iomega" introduced the 100 mb zip disk/drive
    and many people, in the print shop where I worked, proclaiming
    they will "never need to buy another storage disc"

    My first computer was a Tandy 1000 (because it had much better graphics than a PC with a CGA, a better keyboard than the PC Jr., and at +/- $2500 with monitor, was far cheaper than either). 8088 CPU running at a screaming 4.77 mHz, and 128K ram. At the time, TRS was selling 10-meg hard drives for $1,000 and 300 bps modems for around $300. Really miss those days...

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,456
    hacsart said:

    Some pics from my life  in IT...  35 years in IT, woth the same company ... retired in 2006

    No pics from my career - 34 years at the same outfit, 30 of them as systems programmer both unofficially and officially. In that time we went from Burroughs B-2500 through a Honeywell DPS-8 to an IBM 4381 and finally to a series of IBM RS-6000 systems. And from MCP-V (pronounced em-cee-pee-vee, Master Control Program Five) to GCOS-3 (formerly GECOS-3, General Electric Comprehensive Operating System) to MVS, MVS-XA, and finally MVS-ESA and AIX. And an assortment, over the years, of key-to-tape, key-to-disk, and minicomputers and the networks required to support them. And pretty much all my responsibility.

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,456

    I miss the wild-west nature of the early micro days - outfits like Smoke Signal Broadcasting and itty-bitty-machines (who were allowed to keep the name but prohibited from using the ibm abbreviation) and the early magazines. Especially the rag (literally - recycled newsprint) "Doctor Dobb's Journal of Computer Calesthenics and Orthodontia" subtitled 'Running Light Without Overbyte' from the People's Computer Company.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    wolf359 said:

    I remember when "Iomega" introduced the 100 mb zip disk/drive
    and many people, in the print shop where I worked, proclaiming
    they will "never need to buy another storage disc"

    that brought back memories.  My younger son was working on the Iomega Tech Support team over here,  and he relocated to Dublin with them.   He di buy me an iomega disc drive (External) for Christmas that year/

  • hacsarthacsart Posts: 2,034

    Thats nothing compared to an IBM 1403 printer running at full chat. They used a print chain and hammer system. So noisy that they had a rather heavy cover that acted as a sound deadener.  Core memory, yeah,still remember trying to explain to a newby systems guy why every read through old school core was a desructive read...  and on old DASD - the IBM 3330 had removeable disk assemblies..  you kept them in what looked like a cake platter - just make sure its locked before you pick it up - not a fun day at the shop when the bottom drops out and the disk pack hits the floor..

     

    and on paper tape? I still have some..

    hphoenix said:

    I've read a story about those crazy IT folks somewhere getting their washing machine sized HDs to do races, by writing code that did reads in a fashion, that the constant starting and stopping made the HDs go schwiiiiing and start to slide around... until one got stuck in a doorframe. Probably pure fantasy, I'd say, right?

    Nope, I've 'walked' those old DEC RP05 & RP06 hard drives ( http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/rp06.html ).  They looked almost identical to a top-load washing machine.  To protect the platters, there were built-in commands to PARK the heads (huge solenoid on the head arm pivot) and to increase speed, there was a SEEKTOCENTER command built in as well.  When you executed these the machine would make a loud THUNK noise, and it would jolt the whole frame of the drive.

    So you write a little program/script to send the right commands depending on which direction you wanted to 'walk' the drive (forward or backward)......To walk it forward, you'd do a SEEKTOCENTER, followed by a set of seeks further outward on the platter, then repeat.  To go backward, you simply would do regular seeks from the outer part of the platter inward, then send a PARK command, then repeat.  With the right timing, it would literally cause the drive to edge forward/backward unless it was bolted down.

     

    Greymom said:

    They also tried to pawn off a huge old PDP-8 with magnetic core plane memory.  Even I am not that much of a hoarder.  Still have one of the old core plane memory boards.  You can literally see each bit, a little magnetic toroid.

    I had a couple of PDP-8s long ago.  An 8a and an 8f.   One had a Paper-tape reader, the other had a DECtape drive.  Each tape could store a whopping 78KB of data!  Of course, to boot the machine you still had to toggle in the RIM loader on the front panel switches...... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-8

    Yep, Core Memory.  The PDP-8f had (IIRC) 4KB of core memory.  And it ran EDUSystem/10, a multi-user timesharing OS.  That's right, with only 4k of memory, it would support up to 10 simultaneous users.

    And PaperTape storage.....this was on the PDP-11/70 at the university I used:  http://retrocmp.com/stories/dec-pc05-papertape/239-dec-pc05-paper-tape-reader-puncher

     

    Mistara said:

    remember the sound of a dot matrix printer?

    the squelsh of 1200 baud

    the smell of carbon paper

    the paper cuts of greenbar paper

    Dot matrix?  Try a DRUM Printer.  http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/lp20.html ; Sounded like a machine-gun being fired when printing.  Had a daisy-wheel for each of 132 columns, which would rotate and all of them would then smack through a ribbon on the paper at once.  And my first modem was a Hayes 300 Smartmodem External.  Carbon Paper?  Remember mimeograph machines?  The smelly purple ink and the stained fingers?

     

    paper_tape.jpg
    1200 x 674 - 120K
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,040

    ,..yeah I remember that stuff as well.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,176
    edited January 2018

    Oops, correction.  Yeah, our college printer was an IBM 1403, not a 1402.   The card read/punch machine was the 1402.   The big game with the 1402 punch was to make "lace" cards.  Punch out every hole.  Chomp, chomp, chomp, chomp.  We were warned about that too. blush

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • Aghh card racks Carefully rack cards go to move them and somebody knocks it outta your hands cards all over the floor

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,040
    edited January 2018

    ...to this day, the loudest and most intense shriek I ever heard (followed by a chain of expletives that would have made a longshoreman wince) was when somebody on their way to the card reader room dropped their entire box of cards, which contained the latest revision of his programme,on a smooth highly polished floor (causing them to effectively "scatter to the four winds").

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,176
    edited January 2018

    When I first started at the Kennedy Space Center (1974) I was given control of a Raytheon 706 minicomputer and tasked with creating graphic output on a Gould electrostatic printer.  At my disposal was 8K 16-bit word core memory, no disk drivesurprise, a desktop card reader, a fanfold printer, an ASR-33 teletype with a 10 characters per second (cps) paper tape read/punch,  a card keypunch, an assembler stored on papertape, a FORTRAN compiler stored on papertape and thankfully a high-speed optical papertape reader.  The program I had to implement was to be written in FORTRAN and it was to draw contour maps of electrical field intensity over the space center.

    The process of doing a FORTRAN compile was:

    1) read the FORTRAN compiler phase 1 into memory via the high speed papertape reader.

    2) read your keypunched FORTRAN program cards into the computer.  The compiler would then spit out an intermediate binary paper tape at 10 cps of the first phase results of FORTRAN compilation.

    3) read the 2nd phase of FORTRAN compiler into memory via the high speed papertape reader.

    4) read the 1st intermediate papertape in via the highspeed PT reader.

    5) The 2nd phase of the FORTRAN compiler would then spit out a 2nd intermediate papertape at 10cps.

    6) read the final phase of the FORTRAN compiler into memory via the highspeed PT reader.

    7) read the 2nd intermediate PT output into the compiler via the highspeed PT reader.

    8) At this point (assuming that you didn't get compilation mistakes in any of the previous phases) the FORTRAN compiler finally spits out an assembler language version of your program onto papertape at 10cps.

    9) Now, you can load the Raython assembler into memory via the highspeed PT reader.

    10) Feed the PT assembler language output from the FORTRAN compiler into memory via the highspeed PT reader.

    11) Finally, the assembler spits out a binary version of your program onto papertape at 10cps.

    12) At this point you can load your binary executable into memory along with separate papertapes of each of the libraries and subroutines that it needs.  I had a library of hundreds of tiny papertapes.

    13) Then you test your program and get bogus results and you go back to the drawing board. crying 

    Oh, did I mention that the various PT outputs of the compiler and assembler were often quite long and were punched without a takeup reel so they had to be rolled up by hand.  Also the highspeed PT reader had no takeup reel so the tape just whizzed through the reader and flew half-way across the room onto the floor to be rewound by hand. frown  Shortly after I pointed out this problem, one of the NASA managers dropped a battery powered handheld PT winder on my desk one morning.  It was like Christmas. smiley

    Eventually my lab of computer equipment grew into a workable "modern" set with magnetic tape drives and disk drives and I was finally able to forget about papertape.  Yea! yes

    Oh, and it wasn't for several years that we finally got a second computer that had floating point capability from Raytheon.  Until then I had to do all my math in augmented fixed-point arithmetic until I wrote my own floating point subroutine library.  It was a cool time to be a programmer. cool

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,040

    ...and with those "bearskins and stone knives" we made it to the moon and back.

    The Apollo Mission Guidance Source Code and it's creator.

  • TSasha SmithTSasha Smith Posts: 27,363
    wolf359 said:

    I remember when "Iomega" introduced the 100 mb zip disk/drive
    and many people, in the print shop where I worked, proclaiming
    they will "never need to buy another storage disc"

     

    I remember those zip disk/drives.  I thought they were cool and had multiple of them.  No longer have them as they got lost somehow.

    I remember when people were afraid of 1TB HDD.  Why would anyone would need a TB drive. I have filled 1.97 TB on my external HDD and I know some of it are duplicates but accounting for that It is still like almsot a TB worth of stuff.

  • TSasha SmithTSasha Smith Posts: 27,363

    Wow  My current DIM content is about 1 TB I think.

    wolf359 said:

    I remember when "Iomega" introduced the 100 mb zip disk/drive
    and many people, in the print shop where I worked, proclaiming
    they will "never need to buy another storage disc"

     

    I remember those zip disk/drives.  I thought they were cool and had multiple of them.  No longer have them as they got lost somehow.

    I remember when people were afraid of 1TB HDD.  Why would anyone would need a TB drive. I have filled 1.97 TB on my external HDD and I know some of it are duplicates but accounting for that It is still like almsot a TB worth of stuff.

    I checked my DIM and just DIM alone I have 4 files over 1 GB.  I searched for Hexagon stuff found about 9 hexagon related files that would not fit on a 100 MB zip drive.  13 files adding up to 6.5 GB not MB.  t

     

  • hacsarthacsart Posts: 2,034

     Worse than that.. working in the URE section on the card sorters.. and hearing the sickening sound of the sorter ripping your card decks to shred and scattering the remains on the floor...

    kyoto kid said:

     

     

    ...to this day, the loudest and most intense shriek I ever heard (followed by a chain of expletives that would have made a longshoreman wince) was when somebody on their way to the card reader room dropped their entire box of cards, which contained the latest revision of his programme,on a smooth highly polished floor (causing them to effectively "scatter to the four winds")

     

  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255

    Geez, Fortran punch cards and paper tape? My great grandfather told me about those smiley

    Next you'll be talking about PDP-11's and IBM 360's. 

  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255
    edited January 2018

    BTW, what was the name of those big keypunch machines with the card feeder that had a stack of Fortran cards and mechanically slid one into the spot over the big keypad and you punch each card with a single line of Fortran code? And then you take a box of cards to the computer room and they put it in the queue and run it for you, and after class you stop by and pick up the big printout that said you made a mistake in card 374? smiley

    Post edited by ebergerly on
  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255

    Ah, this is the one I was thinking of...an IBM thing...

    ibm-029-keypunch.jpg
    640 x 450 - 68K
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