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Alienware Laptop with Gpu?

glennblackphotosglennblackphotos Posts: 160
in Daz Studio Discussion

Due to living off grid on a canal boat I have to use a laptop.

is there any point buying a new Alienware laptop with a view to getting an external thunderbolt gpu box or are there other options that are just as good but cost less?

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Comments

  • DrNewcensteinDrNewcenstein Posts: 816

    Have not tried one myself, but from the price for that setup, I'd say something has to be cheaper. Akitio makes a dedicated EGPU box now that's big enough to hold real full-length double-width GPUs like the 700 series and up. It uses Thunderbolt 3, though. If the laptop has that, you should be set, but I think the Aliendell egpu is geared primarily at gaming display output more than bidirectional communication.

  • glennblackphotosglennblackphotos Posts: 160
    edited January 2018
    DrNewcenstein said:

    Have not tried one myself, but from the price for that setup, I'd say something has to be cheaper. Akitio makes a dedicated EGPU box now that's big enough to hold real full-length double-width GPUs like the 700 series and up. It uses Thunderbolt 3, though. If the laptop has that, you should be set, but I think the Aliendell egpu is geared primarily at gaming display output more than bidirectional communication.

    ive noticed many artists using 32 gig of ram too so I guess the laptop will be needing that too.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • jaebeajaebea Posts: 454

    Not necessarity.  I do just fine with 16g.

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 5,945

    At least you'll have asy access to water cooling .... be wary, from what I have seen Alienware (now owned by Dell?) add a premium to the price for the name/branding

  • glennblackphotosglennblackphotos Posts: 160
    SimonJM said:

    At least you'll have asy access to water cooling .... be wary, from what I have seen Alienware (now owned by Dell?) add a premium to the price for the name/branding

    To be fair I’m hard pressed to find any other laptop by anyone with a case like the Alienware with similar spec for much less in price terms.

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 5,945
    glennblackphotos said:
    SimonJM said:

    At least you'll have asy access to water cooling .... be wary, from what I have seen Alienware (now owned by Dell?) add a premium to the price for the name/branding

    To be fair I’m hard pressed to find any other laptop by anyone with a case like the Alienware with similar spec for much less in price terms.

    That's good

  • joseftjoseft Posts: 310

    You dont have to get an Alienware laptop. Other manufacturers make excellent laptops also, even dedicated workstation laptops designed for 3D and CAD work, which may even suit you better than a gaming laptop if you dont do much gaming. Many of the good laptops these days will be sporting thunderbolt ports for external GPU applications. A quick look shows me that you can get laptops from Gigabyte/ASUS/MSI that are just as good and/or significantly better than Alienware ones, for significantly less money, all with thunderbolt 3 ports. This is Australian pricing though, unsure if that will be the same where you are.

    My dad has an MSI workstation laptop, and he loves it

  • DrNewcensteinDrNewcenstein Posts: 816

    Workstation laptops typically come with Quadro GPUs, and for the price, the Gaming laptops with GTX GPUs have better specs for Iray - more cores, mainly.

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8TK6GR1647&cm_re=laptop_quadro-_-1TS-000E-074N1-_-Product

    $3700 for 640 CUDA cores. Yes it's got Xeons and 64GB of ECC ram which also affects the price, and it's a large format laptop, but a Quadro is not the be-all, end-all answer for Iray in DS, even in desktop systems. I paid as much for a Quadro K4000 a couple of years ago as you will for a brand new 1080ti direct from Nvidia, and the 1080ti has almost 4x the number of CUDA cores. Quadro is all hype unless you're a contracted CAD professional spending someone else's money in Maya.

     

  • joseftjoseft Posts: 310
    DrNewcenstein said:

    Workstation laptops typically come with Quadro GPUs, and for the price, the Gaming laptops with GTX GPUs have better specs for Iray - more cores, mainly.

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8TK6GR1647&cm_re=laptop_quadro-_-1TS-000E-074N1-_-Product

    $3700 for 640 CUDA cores. Yes it's got Xeons and 64GB of ECC ram which also affects the price, and it's a large format laptop, but a Quadro is not the be-all, end-all answer for Iray in DS, even in desktop systems. I paid as much for a Quadro K4000 a couple of years ago as you will for a brand new 1080ti direct from Nvidia, and the 1080ti has almost 4x the number of CUDA cores. Quadro is all hype unless you're a contracted CAD professional spending someone else's money in Maya.

     

    Yes, it is well known that for price-performance, gaming cards are better than quadro cards, across all GPU powered renderers.

    But quadro cards are not just designed to power renders. They are designed for CAD work - So having a giant 3d scene with millions and millions of polys, high definition textures and all that. They handle that far better than any gaming card will. Having a crazy sluggish viewport costs time, time = productivity = money. That is one reason why corporate workstations use Quadro cards.

    The OP spoke about using an external GPU solution via Thunderbolt. So if he does that to power his renders, having workstation based hardware in the laptop may be more beneficial to him, which is why i mentioned it.

  • DrNewcensteinDrNewcenstein Posts: 816

    IIRC he didn't mention that he was doing this professionally, so time does not equal money in that case. He also didn't mention he was doing actual CAD work, just DS.

  • joseftjoseft Posts: 310

    just because he didnt mention whether or not he does it professionally, doesnt mean the principles i mentioned wont be attractive to him. Everyone puts a value on time, whether it be in a work environment or not. Him not doing CAD work doesnt make those principles irrelevant either, they would affect work inside DS also. And yes, i know that a lot of people wont have this problem with sluggish viewport because they dont work with scenes big enough to slow down. But i certainly did before i started exporting my scenes elsewhere for editing and rendering, which is one reason why i presented this as an option to the OP. Prior to building my current machine, i did some research on this and i learned some things. I am passing that on to someone who may or may not benefit from it. It may not suit him, but he wont know if he doesnt know its an option.

    The workstation laptops are not necessarily any more expensive than gaming ones, there are many models throughout different price ranges, just as there are with gaming laptops. Could be choosing between two that are identical in price, each will be better at its designated purpose.

    At the end of the day, its just a suggestion.

  • DrNewcensteinDrNewcenstein Posts: 816

    My HP Z600 with dual Xeons and 48GB of RAM and a Quadro K4000 does not fare any better than my i7-4770 with 32GB and a single Titan Pascal. I've tested them side-by-side with the same scene. Rendering is faster with the Pascal. It was faster with a Titan X. It was faster with a 980. It was about the same using a pair of 780TIs. Even buying the Z600 used, the additional cost of the ECC RAM and the K4000 put me at double what I spent to build the i7 system. While I can make larger scenes for 3DL or Firefly rendering thanks to the 48GB of system RAM, the Quadro just sits there doing display duty. An M3000 Quadro with only 4GB of VRAM and 640 CUDA cores is a waste of money if you're running it off a generator. I don't imagine a decent sized render would complete before the battery was drained. There's far more to it than whether the viewport is a bit sluggish. OCD is not a virtue.

  • joseftjoseft Posts: 310

    sounds like you are angry

    I already agreed that gaming cards are faster for rendering, what are you trying to prove by giving me 4 examples of that? Agreed, OCD is not a virtue wink

  • glennblackphotosglennblackphotos Posts: 160

    Thank you for the ideas guys much appreciated although I must confess I’m confused.

    Ive looked at Gigabyte laptops and Msi laptops with an 8gig Gtx 1070 graphics card and find them to be no cheaper than the Alienware laptops of similar spec.

    The Alienware also seems to have a thicker case which would be better for air circulation compared to the Gigabyte Aero which prides itself on being thin which seems daft to me.

    I also like that Dell has a brand reputation where someone will literally come out to your house if all fails.

    Obviously I could spend possibly 1k on a thunderport 3 equipped laptop and 1k on an external gpu but something tells me this may not work so well.

    Yep I’m still scratching my head.

    thanks.

  • glennblackphotosglennblackphotos Posts: 160

    Also naturally I am going to progress to using other 3d packages too.

  • joseftjoseft Posts: 310

    there may be some pricing differences by country, but looking here i could see some instances where MSI and asus are cheaper than alienware with the same and/or better specs

    i know with MSI there are so many different models, most with the thicker base obviously for cooling, others with low profile. But then again, i know most of the manufacturers can customise to your liking either way, in terms of individual components

    not sure if MSI/asus give the same level of support, but that is probably another thing that varies depending on where you are

    as for the external GPU option, when i looked into that a while ago, i struggled to find anyone who was actively doing it - but that was a while ago and external GPU solutions were new. Looking now, there are some benchmark tests floating around that show around a 20% performance drop on the same GPU being used externally via thunderbolt 3 compared to the same GPU internally. However, these benchmarks are done using dedicated graphics benchmarking utilities, that are more indicative of gaming performance. Computational performance (rendering) would be different, and i would imagine would suffer far less drop in performance, because it only needs to transfer all your scene data once, before the render even starts. After that its all calculations.

    One advantage of the external GPU solution is you will have the laptops internal GPU left alone, so that you can multitask while you are rendering. Rendering off the internal GPU will mean trying to do anything else on the laptop while it is rendering will be slow. You could also go for a cheaper laptop with a less powerful GPU, if it wont be doing any hard work

     

     

  • GazukullGazukull Posts: 96

    Hey there, I feel like I should chime in.  I did 2.5 years on travel with an Alienware 15 R2-3.  I had the external GPU (Alienware brand) with a single TITAN X maxwell in it.

    Generally, I used only the 1070 GTX in it most of the time.  Your system does not slow down, as your monitors are being driven by the Intel graphics on CPU.  I would only hook up the external GPU at night for batch rendering.

    I have 32 GB RAM installed, 512 GB SSD for OS and 1 TB for HD for the runtime.  

    Let me know if you have any additional questions.  I am no longer on travel so I am back to a desktop these days :D

    Also, if you are in the US I got the same laptop for sale :D  LOL

    -G

  • glennblackphotosglennblackphotos Posts: 160
    edited January 2018
    Gazukull said:

    Hey there, I feel like I should chime in.  I did 2.5 years on travel with an Alienware 15 R2-3.  I had the external GPU (Alienware brand) with a single TITAN X maxwell in it.

    Generally, I used only the 1070 GTX in it most of the time.  Your system does not slow down, as your monitors are being driven by the Intel graphics on CPU.  I would only hook up the external GPU at night for batch rendering.

    I have 32 GB RAM installed, 512 GB SSD for OS and 1 TB for HD for the runtime.  

    Let me know if you have any additional questions.  I am no longer on travel so I am back to a desktop these days :D

    Also, if you are in the US I got the same laptop for sale :D  LOL

    -G

    How did you find it performance wise for rendering?

    Im in the Uk so you can tell me straight as I’m not a prospective buyer lol.

    Ohh and how long did the battery last when using the internal graphics in real word use as I’m sure the sales spiel from Dell won’t be truly accurate?

    Post edited by glennblackphotos on
  • glennblackphotosglennblackphotos Posts: 160
    joseft said:

    there may be some pricing differences by country, but looking here i could see some instances where MSI and asus are cheaper than alienware with the same and/or better specs

    i know with MSI there are so many different models, most with the thicker base obviously for cooling, others with low profile. But then again, i know most of the manufacturers can customise to your liking either way, in terms of individual components

    not sure if MSI/asus give the same level of support, but that is probably another thing that varies depending on where you are

    as for the external GPU option, when i looked into that a while ago, i struggled to find anyone who was actively doing it - but that was a while ago and external GPU solutions were new. Looking now, there are some benchmark tests floating around that show around a 20% performance drop on the same GPU being used externally via thunderbolt 3 compared to the same GPU internally. However, these benchmarks are done using dedicated graphics benchmarking utilities, that are more indicative of gaming performance. Computational performance (rendering) would be different, and i would imagine would suffer far less drop in performance, because it only needs to transfer all your scene data once, before the render even starts. After that its all calculations.

    One advantage of the external GPU solution is you will have the laptops internal GPU left alone, so that you can multitask while you are rendering. Rendering off the internal GPU will mean trying to do anything else on the laptop while it is rendering will be slow. You could also go for a cheaper laptop with a less powerful GPU, if it wont be doing any hard work

     

     

    How much cheaper are we talking here?

  • joseftjoseft Posts: 310
    glennblackphotos said:
    joseft said:

    there may be some pricing differences by country, but looking here i could see some instances where MSI and asus are cheaper than alienware with the same and/or better specs

    i know with MSI there are so many different models, most with the thicker base obviously for cooling, others with low profile. But then again, i know most of the manufacturers can customise to your liking either way, in terms of individual components

    not sure if MSI/asus give the same level of support, but that is probably another thing that varies depending on where you are

    as for the external GPU option, when i looked into that a while ago, i struggled to find anyone who was actively doing it - but that was a while ago and external GPU solutions were new. Looking now, there are some benchmark tests floating around that show around a 20% performance drop on the same GPU being used externally via thunderbolt 3 compared to the same GPU internally. However, these benchmarks are done using dedicated graphics benchmarking utilities, that are more indicative of gaming performance. Computational performance (rendering) would be different, and i would imagine would suffer far less drop in performance, because it only needs to transfer all your scene data once, before the render even starts. After that its all calculations.

    One advantage of the external GPU solution is you will have the laptops internal GPU left alone, so that you can multitask while you are rendering. Rendering off the internal GPU will mean trying to do anything else on the laptop while it is rendering will be slow. You could also go for a cheaper laptop with a less powerful GPU, if it wont be doing any hard work

     

     

    How much cheaper are we talking here?

    the first one i compared was the higher end ones with the GTX1080. All specs were pretty much identical, with one exception - the MSI had 32gig RAM, and the alienware had 16gig. The MSI was still $200 cheaper

    Asus is worth a look also, their ROG (republic of gamers) models are good too. They have a model with the 1080 that is much cheaper than both the MSI and the alienware, the main differences being it has a smaller SSD and i think the screen wasnt as good

    They have so many different models, you can pretty much choose what you want. There are so many different ones its actually difficult to compare!. I didnt see many different models on Alienware site, but i think you can customise there too.

  • GazukullGazukull Posts: 96
    glennblackphotos said:
    Gazukull said:

    Hey there, I feel like I should chime in.  I did 2.5 years on travel with an Alienware 15 R2-3.  I had the external GPU (Alienware brand) with a single TITAN X maxwell in it.

    Generally, I used only the 1070 GTX in it most of the time.  Your system does not slow down, as your monitors are being driven by the Intel graphics on CPU.  I would only hook up the external GPU at night for batch rendering.

    I have 32 GB RAM installed, 512 GB SSD for OS and 1 TB for HD for the runtime.  

    Let me know if you have any additional questions.  I am no longer on travel so I am back to a desktop these days :D

    Also, if you are in the US I got the same laptop for sale :D  LOL

    -G

    How did you find it performance wise for rendering?

    Im in the Uk so you can tell me straight as I’m not a prospective buyer lol.

    Ohh and how long did the battery last when using the internal graphics in real word use as I’m sure the sales spiel from Dell won’t be truly accurate?

    To be completely honest, I found the internal 1070 to be ok, so long as I was doing like 2560 x 1440.  4k UHD... that was not so good.  The limiting factor was the 8GB on the GPU.  I would have to switch to the TITAN X for the heavy lifting @ 12 GB RAM.  

    Battery life was great on the intel graphics like 6-7 hours.  If you switched to the Nvidia... it would die in like 1-2 hours.  

    It's like, I really should get this thing on ebay... but, I am personally attached it with all the good times we had... Japan / Belize / Costa Rica / Panama / Vanuatu... etc.  LOL

  • glennblackphotosglennblackphotos Posts: 160

    I’m having a dilemma in which to choose.

    Th

    Gazukull said:
    glennblackphotos said:
    Gazukull said:

    Hey there, I feel like I should chime in.  I did 2.5 years on travel with an Alienware 15 R2-3.  I had the external GPU (Alienware brand) with a single TITAN X maxwell in it.

    Generally, I used only the 1070 GTX in it most of the time.  Your system does not slow down, as your monitors are being driven by the Intel graphics on CPU.  I would only hook up the external GPU at night for batch rendering.

    I have 32 GB RAM installed, 512 GB SSD for OS and 1 TB for HD for the runtime.  

    Let me know if you have any additional questions.  I am no longer on travel so I am back to a desktop these days :D

    Also, if you are in the US I got the same laptop for sale :D  LOL

    -G

    How did you find it performance wise for rendering?

    Im in the Uk so you can tell me straight as I’m not a prospective buyer lol.

    Ohh and how long did the battery last when using the internal graphics in real word use as I’m sure the sales spiel from Dell won’t be truly accurate?

    To be completely honest, I found the internal 1070 to be ok, so long as I was doing like 2560 x 1440.  4k UHD... that was not so good.  The limiting factor was the 8GB on the GPU.  I would have to switch to the TITAN X for the heavy lifting @ 12 GB RAM.  

    Battery life was great on the intel graphics like 6-7 hours.  If you switched to the Nvidia... it would die in like 1-2 hours.  

    It's like, I really should get this thing on ebay... but, I am personally attached it with all the good times we had... Japan / Belize / Costa Rica / Panama / Vanuatu... etc.  LOL

    Thanks Gaz.

    When you load up a scene in Daz before rendering is that using the Nvidia or the intel?

    How quick would an average HD render take, I’m trying to get an idea of how much power I will need as I’m off grid.

    thanks.

  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,588

    I would look at getting a long extension cord before buying a laptop to do 3D rendering. If you know a electrician he can set you up with power connection to your boat and you can buy used hardware on ebay and a new video card to render to your hearts content. If you are in a place where power is a problem. You need to find ways to get power. You don't need a low powered solution you need a power solution.

  • glennblackphotosglennblackphotos Posts: 160
    Silver Dolphin said:

    I would look at getting a long extension cord before buying a laptop to do 3D rendering. If you know a electrician he can set you up with power connection to your boat and you can buy used hardware on ebay and a new video card to render to your hearts content. If you are in a place where power is a problem. You need to find ways to get power. You don't need a low powered solution you need a power solution.

    I live off grid this means I generate my own power as there is no grid or mains power living the way I live.

    It may be a challenge but my quality of life is ten times better than living in a house, I will get an Alienware laptop and will be just fine.

    Thanks.

  • GazukullGazukull Posts: 96

    @glennblackphotos 

    Well...  I think it depends on what kind of resolution you are looking at rendering.  The power adapter is 280w... I am not sure if that helps.  I will say this, it will eat power like crazy while rendering.  If I was gaming or rendering not plugged in, we were looking at 2.5 hours.  Vs all day just typing or what have you.

    I would probably get the 17 with the super fatty 1080 in there.  At that point it is a desktop replacement almost.  I wouldn't worry about the external GPU box until you one day decide that a 1080 with 8GB ram is not enough. 

    Also... your lifestyle sounds awesome!!

     

  • glennblackphotosglennblackphotos Posts: 160
    Gazukull said:

    @glennblackphotos 

    Well...  I think it depends on what kind of resolution you are looking at rendering.  The power adapter is 280w... I am not sure if that helps.  I will say this, it will eat power like crazy while rendering.  If I was gaming or rendering not plugged in, we were looking at 2.5 hours.  Vs all day just typing or what have you.

    I would probably get the 17 with the super fatty 1080 in there.  At that point it is a desktop replacement almost.  I wouldn't worry about the external GPU box until you one day decide that a 1080 with 8GB ram is not enough. 

    Also... your lifestyle sounds awesome!!

    thank you Gaz that’s most helpful.

    Gazukull said:

     

     

  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,588
    edited February 2018
    glennblackphotos said:
    Silver Dolphin said:

    I would look at getting a long extension cord before buying a laptop to do 3D rendering. If you know a electrician he can set you up with power connection to your boat and you can buy used hardware on ebay and a new video card to render to your hearts content. If you are in a place where power is a problem. You need to find ways to get power. You don't need a low powered solution you need a power solution.

    I live off grid this means I generate my own power as there is no grid or mains power living the way I live.

    It may be a challenge but my quality of life is ten times better than living in a house, I will get an Alienware laptop and will be just fine.

    Thanks.

    Get a propane generator and a large tank. The propane truck can drive to your remote location and you can have steady power to use for your hobby. Oh, and I was not knocking your lifestyle. How you choose to live or where is your own business. I was just offering advice. That Alienware laptop while rendering is going to suck down alot of electricity. If you are on a electrical budget due to being somewhere there is no power lines I would strongly suggest a generator and a shed with sound absorption panels(so you don't have to hear the generator). Propane is safer and easier to transport than gasoline and with a nice large tank you are set to go.

    Just my 2 cents

    Post edited by Silver Dolphin on
  • glennblackphotosglennblackphotos Posts: 160

     

    Silver Dolphin said:
    glennblackphotos said:
    Silver Dolphin said:

    I would look at getting a long extension cord before buying a laptop to do 3D rendering. If you know a electrician he can set you up with power connection to your boat and you can buy used hardware on ebay and a new video card to render to your hearts content. If you are in a place where power is a problem. You need to find ways to get power. You don't need a low powered solution you need a power solution.

    I live off grid this means I generate my own power as there is no grid or mains power living the way I live.

    It may be a challenge but my quality of life is ten times better than living in a house, I will get an Alienware laptop and will be just fine.

    Thanks.

    Get a propane generator and a large tank. The propane truck can drive to your remote location and you can have steady power to use for your hobby. Oh, and I was not knocking your lifestyle. How you choose to live or where is your own business. I was just offering advice. That Alienware laptop while rendering is going to suck down alot of electricity. If you are on a electrical budget due to being somewhere there is no power lines I would strongly suggest a generator and a shed with sound absorption panels(so you don't have to hear the generator). Propane is safer and easier to transport than gasoline and with a nice large tank you are set to go.

    Just my 2 cents

    Its ok I never said you were knocking my lifestyle.

    I have to move every two weeks so having a propane tank is out the question, it’s ok though my twin alternators on my desiel engine will deliver the charge I need along with my solar setup.

    I have bought the laptop now and happy with it.

     

  • glennblackphotosglennblackphotos Posts: 160
    Gazukull said:

    @glennblackphotos 

    Well...  I think it depends on what kind of resolution you are looking at rendering.  The power adapter is 280w... I am not sure if that helps.  I will say this, it will eat power like crazy while rendering.  If I was gaming or rendering not plugged in, we were looking at 2.5 hours.  Vs all day just typing or what have you.

    I would probably get the 17 with the super fatty 1080 in there.  At that point it is a desktop replacement almost.  I wouldn't worry about the external GPU box until you one day decide that a 1080 with 8GB ram is not enough. 

    Also... your lifestyle sounds awesome!!

     

    I got the 17 with the 1080 and pleased, how do I know the 1080 is being used and not the cpu though ?

  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,588

    It is in the Render setting if the card is recognized by Studio you will have a box to put a tic mark in you will have the choice to choose just the video card or video card and cpu. I would just use Video card. Remember Iray heats up video cards so find a way to keep your laptop cool.

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