3D Comic Book Tips And Pictures

mmitchell_houston

Xandyr78 said:

mmitchell_houston said:

I was wondering how many of you use thumbnails for your comics?

For me, they are invaluable. Because I work with line art, I cannot scale my renders up or down more than just a few percent. If I dramatically change the size of the renders, the lines will get much bigger or smaller (I hope that makes sense). Although varied line thicknesses from panel-to-panel isn't a big problem, it does look weird if a panel suddenly uses a HUGE brush (say a 20-pixel brush, which can happen if I scale up too much) when every single panel around it is using a 10px line. If there's no story reason to make that one panel more dramatic then it's a distraction.

My thumbnails are created on a blank sheet of paper and, after I'm satisfied that it's close to what I want, I scan it and then place the panels and lettering in CSP. From the full page scan, I cut out each panel's thumbnail and paste it into its frame. Anyway, laying out the panels and word balloons/text before I start creating the renders works well for me, as that lets me know how much space I actually have for the artwork. If you note the blue-line panels, you can see the panel measurements written in each one.

Here's a spread from the story I'm working on right now: GRAVEYARD SHIFT. These pages are filled with a LOT of dialogue, so I'm doing a lot of odd angles and lighting to try making it look more interesting.

ALSO, I'm aware that, in the middle panel at the bottom of the finished page (on the left), her left arm looks wonky. Her arm is really in a decent pose when viewed from a different angle: with her elbow away from her body and forearm bending down. This looked okay in the original camera angle I chose, but I changed it at the last minute and that's how the weird arm pose got through. If I have time I will go back and fix it, but I have a strict deadline at the end of September, so I'm going to plow ahead and try to get everything done before going back to fix problems.

Thumbnails really shouldn't be optional, in my opinion, at least not until you've really grown accustomed to visual storytelling.  I love seeing your process, and how the simplistic, sketchy thumbnails suffice to help you lay the page out much more effeciiently.  Appreciate the peek behind your curtain!

I agree! I don't think any of us are good enough to skip the thumbnails step. Yet, so often, I talk to digital comics creators who skip it! I honestly could not function without first making a rough of what I'm working on. Oh, tbh, if I were doing a single page I could probably do it all in my head... but I wouldn't want to. Thanks for the reply.

mmitchell_houston

3WC said:

+1 for thumbnails. Yours are much more detailed than mine, I often wonder if anyone would be able to tell what my squiggles and shapes mean. They are generally just for me to see the flow and figure out panel size and lettering placement.

Just a nitpick about lettering, looks like you have some crossbar capital "i's" at beginning of sentences even when they are not lone "i's".

Thanks for showing me your three-stages of thumbnails to roughs. I really like it. What you're seeing in my post is my "final" thumbnail stage. Like you, I did an even looser one before that to set up the pacing for the story. In other words, what you see here are my "level-2" thumbnails. Level-1 are about as squiggly as yours.

THANK YOU! I know better, but still made the mistake with the capital I. I fixed it throughout the book. I really appreciate you catching that!

csaa

mmitchell_houston said:

I did get a chuckle out of your last comment and I appreciate it. I'm hoping Rex's dialog adds a bit of maturity as it touches on life and death and dealing with our own mortality. But... this is a horror comic. She's a vampire and uses being a hospice nurse to get access to blood that no one will miss. :-)

Oh no! Florence Nightingale turned out to be a blood junkie. 

Cheers! 

bugbear

My previous project was interrupted by work and life issues, and when I tried to get back to it, I realized a main source of frustration was the hours spent rendering detailed and highly-textured images in DAZ that I was only going to smush over with post-work filtering. So I've started a new project with a focus on very basic environments and background textures. Of course, some of the renders still take a long time due to the commercial products involved, but I'm willing to spend that time on characters and significant objects or landmarks.

Anyway, here's two pages:

 

Xandyr78

bugbear said:

My previous project was interrupted by work and life issues, and when I tried to get back to it, I realized a main source of frustration was the hours spent rendering detailed and highly-textured images in DAZ that I was only going to smush over with post-work filtering. So I've started a new project with a focus on very basic environments and background textures. Of course, some of the renders still take a long time due to the commercial products involved, but I'm willing to spend that time on characters and significant objects or landmarks.

Anyway, here's two pages:

Those are really SOLID, @bugbear!  I'm trying to figure out my process for working on my own GN...can you show a bit of how you got those results?

csaa

bugbear said:

My previous project was interrupted by work and life issues, and when I tried to get back to it, I realized a main source of frustration was the hours spent rendering detailed and highly-textured images in DAZ that I was only going to smush over with post-work filtering. So I've started a new project with a focus on very basic environments and background textures. Of course, some of the renders still take a long time due to the commercial products involved, but I'm willing to spend that time on characters and significant objects or landmarks.

 bugbear,

They look good. I encourage you to keep going forward with it.

Cheers!

bugbear

Xandyr78 said:

Those are really SOLID, @bugbear!  I'm trying to figure out my process for working on my own GN...can you show a bit of how you got those results?

I wish I could take credit for discovering some brilliant and clever new technique (and believe me, I've tried thousands of combinations), but most of the work here is done by a filter in Photoshop Elements called, appropriately enough, "Graphic Novel".

The trick is, it's a black and white filter. So I put a 50% opacity layer of the Graphic Novel filtered version on top of an oversaturated copy of the original render and the resulting colours work out roughly the same.

There are other tweaks and nudges at work, but that's 95% of the effect.

 

Xandyr78

Sometimes the simpler solutions really ARE the best!  That's awesome!

mmitchell_houston

bugbear said:

Xandyr78 said:

Those are really SOLID, @bugbear!  I'm trying to figure out my process for working on my own GN...can you show a bit of how you got those results?

I wish I could take credit for discovering some brilliant and clever new technique (and believe me, I've tried thousands of combinations), but most of the work here is done by a filter in Photoshop Elements called, appropriately enough, "Graphic Novel".

The trick is, it's a black and white filter. So I put a 50% opacity layer of the Graphic Novel filtered version on top of an oversaturated copy of the original render and the resulting colours work out roughly the same.

There are other tweaks and nudges at work, but that's 95% of the effect.

Your results speak for themselves. The colors are not overly saturated and the basic look is clean and strong.

As time goes on, you will pick up speed and achieve consistency. Tell me, are you saving a separate file for each and every frame? Or setting up one file and then saving different cameras?

For my work, I found that it is essential for me to save each panel separately, and save a camera and lights for the scene (my process uses two lights, a base and shadows) which are then composited in Clip Studio Paint. To document all this stuff, I created a worksheet which is updated for each frame.  When I get a chance, I'll post a sample page of my notes.

Xandyr78

mmitchell_houston said:

bugbear said:

Xandyr78 said:

Those are really SOLID, @bugbear!  I'm trying to figure out my process for working on my own GN...can you show a bit of how you got those results?

I wish I could take credit for discovering some brilliant and clever new technique (and believe me, I've tried thousands of combinations), but most of the work here is done by a filter in Photoshop Elements called, appropriately enough, "Graphic Novel".

The trick is, it's a black and white filter. So I put a 50% opacity layer of the Graphic Novel filtered version on top of an oversaturated copy of the original render and the resulting colours work out roughly the same.

There are other tweaks and nudges at work, but that's 95% of the effect.

Your results speak for themselves. The colors are not overly saturated and the basic look is clean and strong.

As time goes on, you will pick up speed and achieve consistency. Tell me, are you saving a separate file for each and every frame? Or setting up one file and then saving different cameras?

For my work, I found that it is essential for me to save each panel separately, and save a camera and lights for the scene (my process uses two lights, a base and shadows) which are then composited in Clip Studio Paint. To document all this stuff, I created a worksheet which is updated for each frame.  When I get a chance, I'll post a sample page of my notes.

I love how much this community is willing to share workflows and tips and secrets.  I learn so much.  Y'all are AWESOME.

mmitchell_houston

Xandyr78 said:

I love how much this community is willing to share workflows and tips and secrets.  I learn so much.  Y'all are AWESOME.

I completely agree! That is one of the things I love about this forum, too.

Here are those pages I promised. I set these up in PowerPoint so they would be easy to edit and I could put everything where I wanted it and the items will just stay there (unlike in a Word doc, where they flow around on the page too much for my liking). I will admit, the pages at the beginning of the project were not this uniform. I just started jotting down notes and file names, but by page three I figured out what I wanted to track and the best way to do it. I also made these LEGAL-SIZE pages (8.5x14 inches). I don't intend to print them out, so the extra few inches gave me more room.

 

Oh, when you look at the file names, the "Superheroes" is the name of a Runtime Library – it's got most of the props and poses I use for comics.

A few notes about how to read these pages:

• When I create the file names, I use a shorthand for Page dash Panel. So, 08-02 refers to Page 8, Panel 2. All of the items for that panel are in folders associated with those numbers. For each and every panel, there are a minimum of these files:
  • Poser file: 08-02 (09-28-2025).pz3
  • Clip Studio Paint File: 08-02 Renders.clip
  • Camera (Poser saves it as a file – I recently started adding the camera's focal length to the name, in this case it's just a 35mm camera): 08-02 Aux Camera 3 35mm.cm2
  • Light 1 (I call this BASE, which has the black elements in the render; it provides the outlines and note that the shadows are tighter than the next render): 08-02 BASE g=022 th=030.lt2
    • Render 1 (Black): This render has the identical name as the Light which created it: 08-02 BASE g=022 th=030.png
  • Light 2 (in CSP, I put this layer on top of the previous render, turn this layer blue, set opacity to 50% and set the blending mode to Multiply; note how the shadows are bigger than they are on the black layer): 08-02 SHADOWS g=022 th=060.lt2
    • Render 2 (Blue): I call this the "Shadow" layer or the "blue" layer, but the render is actually black; it doesn't turn blue until I put it in CSP: 08-02 SHADOWS g=022 th=060.png

If you look in the second box, you'll see that I list some of the major poses and expressions used in this panel. I found this helps me a LOT in finding things again, and in giving proper attribution when I post the pages online.  The other info is easy to write down because I really only change the page and panel number in the info above. I can do that pretty quickly. BUT, taking time to write down the props and poses can be time consuimg, and I must admit sometimes I don't always write it down (or make a mistake). However, having this info has saved my butt more than once when I needed to revisit a panel or I wanted to find a prop used on a previous page. So, even though it is a bit annoying, I do keep up with it as best I can.

A note about those weird numbers in my file names: g=022 th=033:

• In poser, the line art is created by something called the Comic Book Preview.
• It has settings for color, b&w, and a few other things. Two of those are:
  • Geometric Edge Lines Multiplier: This is a GLOBAL setting for how thick the lines are. Higher numbers mean thicker lines. My standard setting for this book is 0.22. However, the file names cannot have a decimal point in them, so I write it as g=022. Sometimes I set it to 0.33 if I want a thicker line. NOTE: Poser lets you override this number in the Materials settings. For example, I use a significantly smaller line for eyes and teeth.
  • Threshold: This is similar to some filters in Photoshop – this is the sensitivity (or size) of the shadows. Numbers effectively range between 0.01 to 1.00 (there are more decimals in the app, but I've found two digits have all the precision I need). Small numbers mean less detail and smaller shadows. Big numbers mean more detail (sometimes too much) and bigger shadows. I typically range from 0.22 to 0.66.
  • These two settings can COMPLETELY change the way a render looks, and there is no way to save this info to an external file or capture the info I need. So, I write it down in the file names so I don't lose the settings I would need if I had to revisit the panel or redo it for some reason (like fixing a prop or expression) 

Finally, you see the tables which list all the lights in the scene, and this is where I also store the Geometric Edge and Threshold settings. Since the light file (see the bullet list above) actually stores the intensity, angle, color and all that jazz, the only thing I do here is track which lights are on and whether or not they cast shadows. Yeah, this info is also stored in the light files, but having this available at a glance is very useful in helping me maintain continuity from one panel to the next.

Oh, and as you can see, I put little thumbnails fo the render next to each light. Again, this is so I can tell at a glance which panel is which.

So far, this document has 90 pages! That's about 1 page per panel. Oh, and the NOTE PAGES are different colors so I can tell at a glance which page I'm working on. My busiest page has 10 or 11 panels; the colors help me keep track of where I am.

I imagine a lot of this is weird since I use Poser and this is the Daz Forum, but the documentation principles are still the same.

I've also attached the pages with the corresponding panels so you can see how they look when I'm done with my postwork.

 

 

If you guys have any questions about my notes template (or would like a blank copy), just let me know!

Mike

Xandyr78

mmitchell_houston said:

If you guys have any questions about my notes template (or would like a blank copy), just let me know!

Mike

That is a TON of info!  I didn't realize you work in Poser rather than DS.  I've worked in both, but prefer DS.  Still, this gives me a TON to chew on, workflow-wise.  I'd LOVE a blank copy of the notes page, if you're willing to part with it.

mmitchell_houston

Xandyr78 said:

mmitchell_houston said:

If you guys have any questions about my notes template (or would like a blank copy), just let me know!

Mike

That is a TON of info!  I didn't realize you work in Poser rather than DS.  I've worked in both, but prefer DS.  Still, this gives me a TON to chew on, workflow-wise.  I'd LOVE a blank copy of the notes page, if you're willing to part with it.

Hope I didn't overwhelm you!

This is a lot of stuff that I figured out after a long time working on this (and two other) comics. This is the process that I found works for me. Mainly, the documentation is there for when I need to go back to a panel I already worked on, or to ensure that I'm (mostly) consistent on the lighting and camera settings.

As for Daz vs Poser...

I work in Poser because it has the ability to generate clean line art, which is what I was looking for to make my own comics. I like Daz Studio – quite a bit, actually, and I really miss not getting to work with all those cool, new figures that Daz has – but (and I hope this doesn't piss anyone off) Daz sucks at producing line art. I've seen the cell shaders and tested their new Toon Line output (or whatever its called). It's not good. I don't mean it's not as good as Poser, I literally mean it's not good. The lines are anemic and I couldn't find any way to specifcy different thicknesses for based on material specifications. I was even a beta tester for the Line9000 product (it was kind of okay), and I just can't get the look I want with Daz. And I haven't seen one single render to suggest otherwise.

Anyway, I hope that doesn't bother anyone for me to say all that stuff. 

If I were going for a more photoreal or an anime (not manga, but anime) look, I would use Daz Studio because I think it's really AMAZING at those types of outputs (honestly, Poser can't even touch Daz's Iray output and photorealistic renders; Poser has really dropped the ball in that category). It's just that Daz doesn't do line art, which is what I want.

Yes, I will set up a template of that file and put it in a folder and share it. I'll try to get to it tonight or tomorrow.

Mike

Xandyr78

Hope I didn't overwhelm you!

This is a lot of stuff that I figured out after a long time working on this (and two other) comics. This is the process that I found works for me. Mainly, the documentation is there for when I need to go back to a panel I already worked on, or to ensure that I'm (mostly) consistent on the lighting and camera settings.

As for Daz vs Poser...

I work in Poser because it has the ability to generate clean line art, which is what I was looking for to make my own comics. I like Daz Studio – quite a bit, actually, and I really miss not getting to work with all those cool, new figures that Daz has – but (and I hope this doesn't piss anyone off) Daz sucks at producing line art. I've seen the cell shaders and tested their new Toon Line output (or whatever its called). It's not good. I don't mean it's not as good as Poser, I literally mean it's not good. The lines are anemic and I couldn't find any way to specifcy different thicknesses for based on material specifications. I was even a beta tester for the Line9000 product (it was kind of okay), and I just can't get the look I want with Daz. And I haven't seen one single render to suggest otherwise.

Anyway, I hope that doesn't bother anyone for me to say all that stuff. 

If I were going for a more photoreal or an anime (not manga, but anime) look, I would use Daz Studio because I think it's really AMAZING at those types of outputs (honestly, Poser can't even touch Daz's Iray output and photorealistic renders; Poser has really dropped the ball in that category). It's just that Daz doesn't do line art, which is what I want.

Yes, I will set up a template of that file and put it in a folder and share it. I'll try to get to it tonight or tomorrow.

Mike

Not overwhelmed, and not offensive, at least to me.  I understand that both programs have their merits, and their drawbacks.  I like some of what Filatoon has been able to produce, though I've not been able to get quite what I want, either.  Still working at it.

I'll look forward to seeing that template!

mmitchell_houston

Xandyr78 said:

Hey there, I sent you the link for the template files.

mmitchell_houston

I don't think I posted this here before (but I'm not 100% sure), but here is something else I do to help me keep track of how I make my characters for the comic. I create a standard Character sheet, but I also include the important dials and morphs that go into the figure design. Looking back at this, I should have also included the clothing and props. I will definitely document that kind of stuff in my next comic.

FirstBastion

StrangeFate said:

I've been messing around with comics too lately, on the side. There's not much of a story to the first chapter, just needed something simple to figure out everything... style, workflow, speed, online comic platforms...

A few pages I have so far... style is still changing a bit from page to page and #3 is missing, want to redo it...

 This is an awesome sequential art bit of storytelling. Even without a dialogue bubble to be seen,   we get a sense of the story and the emotion. 

BrashFink

Been a long time, not sure who is paying attention anymore. Comic-wise I have gone a complete different direction.

I have switched to horror... and am using Daz a reference and literally redrawing everything, but Daz is still a major component.

Here is a 2-page spread in my current work...

EDIT: Oh, I forgot I posted a tenative cover last November of this same project. I am planning on having the first 15 pages done and posting by Thanksgiving weekend. This spread is literally pages 14 and 15.

BrashFink

Another random panel sample and a cover concept that mimics the spread...

BrashFink

One more panel...

csaa

 

BrashFink said:

I have switched to horror... and am using Daz a reference and literally redrawing everything, but Daz is still a major component.

BrashFink, 

They look good! Overall, the images fit the horror theme pretty well. Hope you could share more.

Best wishes on your project and hope you make it to Thanksgiving milestone. 

Cheers! 

BrashFink

csaa said:

BrashFink, 

They look good! Overall, the images fit the horror theme pretty well. Hope you could share more.

Best wishes on your project and hope you make it to Thanksgiving milestone. 

Cheers! 

Thanks!

 

mmitchell_houston

I want to thank Xandyr78 for taking a look at horror comic story. His input has really helped improve things. Subtle differences can make a HUGE difference, as you can see in the Before/After images below. Some of the suggestions were simple, like fixing line breaks in the text. Others were invaluable:

• Adding the name and color to "Victor, it is done" so we we can be sure of who is speaking.
• Stacking the red panels and using the "Unnnngggh" to connect panels to reenforce the correct reading order.
• Also moved up the red balloon to make sure it flowed.

(And I'm looking forward to seeing what csaa finds when he takes a gander at it.)

Thanks to BOTH of you for your feedback! And yes, when I'm done I'll post the entire story for everyone here to read.

Oh yeah, the plot: Victor's dad is dying of old age. It turns out his attractive hospice nurse is a vampire, so Victor pays her to turn dad into a vampire. She has him leave the room and... well, you can follow it from there.

 BEFORE

AFTER

Normal workflow applies: Renders in Poser Pro 13 and all composition and corrections are in Clip Studio Paint.

EDIT: Hmmmm. That's wild. The word "his" is bumping the word balloon. It doesn't do that in the original. Nevertheless, I'll increase the border size to give it more breathing room.

mmitchell_houston

Wow. I did it. I'm finished with that horror comic story I've been working on. It ballooned to 12 pages in length, but at the end of it all, I can say, "I'm done."

I'll post it online soon to share with the group.

Thanks to everyone in this group (and two members in particular; you guys know who you are) for your support and suggestions over the two years I spent dilly dallying around with this little comic book story.

 

mmitchell_houston

BrashFink said:

Another random panel sample and a cover concept that mimics the spread...

This is VERY impressive! In the first image, the simplicity of the layout, coupled with those great shadows across the face, really elevate this piece into something special. In the second illustration I was impressed with the tiny details like the hair on their chins and that little bluge on the guys shirt to indicate that his shirt has a pocket. Really well done!

mmitchell_houston

The vampire's fate...

I may revisit this sequence in a week or two to punch it up a bit before I post the whole story online. Then again, I might not.