If I make no money from a 3D print is that OK?

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Comments

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584

    Y'know, I used to be all for artists rights and copyrights and digital rights protections.  But I'm not so sure anymore.  indecision

    There shouldn't be any issue. The thing that is trying to be conveyed is if someone is not sure about use, **ask** the owner. The issues why things become so restrictive is when people just **do** whatever they want regardless of the rules, or try to skirt the rules as much as they can, then complain when they get their hand slapped when caught. The bottom line is know what you can do before you do it, and if it's something you want to do but it isn't spelled out, see if you can negotiate from there.. that's when this works. It becomes worse and more restrictive when some don't play by the rules, making it worse for everyone else, thus more restrictive licencing.

  • I noticed too that they added Genesis 8 Starter Essentials to the Sales pages when I was filling out gallery products used.

    Yes, the Genesis 8 one was added later but that aside they were added more or less as the interactive license option was. One reliable way to reach them is by finding the download page in your product Library, or clicking the readme button in DIM, or selecting More Info in a Product view in DS, and then follow the link to the store page.

  • UHFUHF Posts: 518

    Y'know, I used to be all for artists rights and copyrights and digital rights protections.  But I'm not so sure anymore.  indecision

    LeatherGryphon: Calm down, its just the newness of all this.  Eventually they'll sort it out, but no one wants to rush in and realize later that they gave away all their rights.

    If you look under the hood there are a lot of issues with 3D printing.  We're literally transfering everything from the render to the company in order for them to process and clean up.  You're absolutely not allowed to give anyone else your digital files, and no one seems to question that. Furthermore there's no way to extract a 3D figure from a 2D picture, hence... knock yourself out...  sell away!

    3D printing is somewhere in between, we're not actually giving away the files with some intent that they keep them, but annoyingly, you could scan or caste a 3D model from a 3D print.  This is an area you'll hear about in the gaming community because people do copy figures, and they all know its a copyright violation.  Fun fact... that's what early gamers (i.e. the founders of TSR/D&D) did because at the time figures simply weren't available.

    If you look back at the history of digital music.. you'll find there are a lot of issues that took a long time to figure out.  (...many are still in the works.)  Fun fact... early Sony MP3 players enforced copyright law, and would delete your MP3 files from your computer after they transfered the files to your portable player.  This is because at the time, you were not permitted to copy music.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729

    Problem is that business use terms like 'free' and 'gift' but they have purchasing or other strings attached that make one question a private consumers' interpretation of 'free' and 'gift' but even with such ambiguities the phrase 'personal, non-commercial use' is pretty unambigious.  The receiver of a gift is receiving a personal, non-commercial gift if the giver is not accepting any financial, membership, or other type of behavior (even a thank you, sorry Miss Manners) for having given the gift. And having given the present in such a manner makes the gift-giver's use of the gift remain 'personal, non-commercial use'.

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,335
    UHF said:

    Y'know, I used to be all for artists rights and copyrights and digital rights protections.  But I'm not so sure anymore.  indecision

    LeatherGryphon: Calm down, its just the newness of all this.  Eventually they'll sort it out, but no one wants to rush in and realize later that they gave away all their rights.

    If you look under the hood there are a lot of issues with 3D printing.  We're literally transfering everything from the render to the company in order for them to process and clean up.  You're absolutely not allowed to give anyone else your digital files, and no one seems to question that. Furthermore there's no way to extract a 3D figure from a 2D picture, hence... knock yourself out...  sell away!

    3D printing is somewhere in between, we're not actually giving away the files with some intent that they keep them, but annoyingly, you could scan or caste a 3D model from a 3D print.  This is an area you'll hear about in the gaming community because people do copy figures, and they all know its a copyright violation.  Fun fact... that's what early gamers (i.e. the founders of TSR/D&D) did because at the time figures simply weren't available.

    The claim that copying a figure IS a copyright violation is over-simplified.  Fair Use, and other rules, still apply.  Federal Laws still override any EULA stipulations.  It's the intent and the disposition of those copies that can result in copyright violations.

    UHF said:

    If you look back at the history of digital music.. you'll find there are a lot of issues that took a long time to figure out.  (...many are still in the works.)  Fun fact... early Sony MP3 players enforced copyright law, and would delete your MP3 files from your computer after they transfered the files to your portable player.  This is because at the time, you were not permitted to copy music.

    Sony did this (ostensibly) to prevent piracy.  As usual, it ended up being a problem for Sony.  "...not permitted to copy music." is not the same as "copying your legally-acquired music is a copyright violation."  Fair Use, and other rules, again still apply.  I know rights-holders want to keep an iron grip on anything they make, but there are laws protecting the consumer from overarching claims.

     

  • Y'know, I used to be all for artists rights and copyrights and digital rights protections.  But I'm not so sure anymore.  indecision

    The fact that the rights people have with regard to copyrighted physical items are interpreted as nonexistent when it comes to digital items sure is weird, yeah. I'm sure it'll work out sometime in the next century.

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019

    For all who are interested: DAZ STeve answered about the issue: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/3231586/#Comment_3231586

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729
    BeeMKay said:

    For all who are interested: DAZ STeve answered about the issue: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/3231586/#Comment_3231586

    Thanks! Steve's clarification makes sense in terms of what the EULA actually says legally.

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019
    edited January 2018

    Yeah, but now we are all to be considered as businesses, and have to buy commercial licenses to make a present to friends and family. I should know, because I am that confused person who he quoted, and I have the CS mail stating just that in my mailbox now.

    Post edited by BeeMKay on
  • BeeMKay said:

    Yeah, but now we are all to be considered as businesses, and have to buy commercial licenses to make a present to friends and family. I should know, because I am that confused person who he quoted, and I have the CS mail stating just that in my mailbox now.

    No, no, no. Steve says "Furthermore, so long as your use case is non-commercial, you are allowed to give 3D prints that you buy as gifts to others."

    The majority of his response he was responding to whether you could give away prints as a business incentive to customers, which everyone had already generally understood as commercial and not allowed.

    We can still give prints as personal gifts. Now confirmed twice.

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019
    BeeMKay said:

    Yeah, but now we are all to be considered as businesses, and have to buy commercial licenses to make a present to friends and family. I should know, because I am that confused person who he quoted, and I have the CS mail stating just that in my mailbox now.

    No, no, no. Steve says "Furthermore, so long as your use case is non-commercial, you are allowed to give 3D prints that you buy as gifts to others."

    The majority of his response he was responding to whether you could give away prints as a business incentive to customers, which everyone had already generally understood as commercial and not allowed.

    We can still give prints as personal gifts. Now confirmed twice.

    Well, that goes contrary to the email I received from CS just about two hours ago, which stated rather clearly all the thing about the business stuff, to conclude that (also it's stated in my original request, and also in my secondary request, that this ws just about really private presents), that they'd honour their original answer to my first request, but that this was going to be one-time only, and I couldn't make any further prints to gift to my friends.

    I've asked for clarification again, if they really mean what they wrote or if something came across wrong again, but until then, I'm putting two orders for presents I had planned on ice, or perhaps straight into the bin.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited January 2018
    BeeMKay said:
    BeeMKay said:

    Yeah, but now we are all to be considered as businesses, and have to buy commercial licenses to make a present to friends and family. I should know, because I am that confused person who he quoted, and I have the CS mail stating just that in my mailbox now.

    No, no, no. Steve says "Furthermore, so long as your use case is non-commercial, you are allowed to give 3D prints that you buy as gifts to others."

    The majority of his response he was responding to whether you could give away prints as a business incentive to customers, which everyone had already generally understood as commercial and not allowed.

    We can still give prints as personal gifts. Now confirmed twice.

    Well, that goes contrary to the email I received from CS just about two hours ago, which stated rather clearly all the thing about the business stuff, to conclude that (also it's stated in my original request, and also in my secondary request, that this ws just about really private presents), that they'd honour their original answer to my first request, but that this was going to be one-time only, and I couldn't make any further prints to gift to my friends.

    I've asked for clarification again, if they really mean what they wrote or if something came across wrong again, but until then, I'm putting two orders for presents I had planned on ice, or perhaps straight into the bin.

    They might have thought with the related thread that you were asking about giving gifts to promote a business. DAZ_Steve and CS's earlier response seemed pretty clear (as does the EULA).

    EDIT: Completely can't blame you for being gunshy now, though.

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604

    What is happening here is that the same people are having virtually the same conversation in 2 different threads.   DAZ_Steve is only responding in one.   The OP of this thread would be classed as a Commercial usage, whereas Steve has expalined very clearly that your case Bee is a personal useage.  This is what has caused the confusion, and Steve has said that he will get it sorted out properly for you.

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,533
    BeeMKay said:
    BeeMKay said:

    Yeah, but now we are all to be considered as businesses, and have to buy commercial licenses to make a present to friends and family. I should know, because I am that confused person who he quoted, and I have the CS mail stating just that in my mailbox now.

    No, no, no. Steve says "Furthermore, so long as your use case is non-commercial, you are allowed to give 3D prints that you buy as gifts to others."

    The majority of his response he was responding to whether you could give away prints as a business incentive to customers, which everyone had already generally understood as commercial and not allowed.

    We can still give prints as personal gifts. Now confirmed twice.

    Well, that goes contrary to the email I received from CS just about two hours ago, which stated rather clearly all the thing about the business stuff, to conclude that (also it's stated in my original request, and also in my secondary request, that this ws just about really private presents), that they'd honour their original answer to my first request, but that this was going to be one-time only, and I couldn't make any further prints to gift to my friends.

    I've asked for clarification again, if they really mean what they wrote or if something came across wrong again, but until then, I'm putting two orders for presents I had planned on ice, or perhaps straight into the bin.

    I notice he said 'buy' not create/print, I would presume that he possibly means those bought from the Game Print site that presumably has a deal with daz, not something you print yourself.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729
    edited January 2018
    scorpio said:
    BeeMKay said:
    BeeMKay said:

    Yeah, but now we are all to be considered as businesses, and have to buy commercial licenses to make a present to friends and family. I should know, because I am that confused person who he quoted, and I have the CS mail stating just that in my mailbox now.

    No, no, no. Steve says "Furthermore, so long as your use case is non-commercial, you are allowed to give 3D prints that you buy as gifts to others."

    The majority of his response he was responding to whether you could give away prints as a business incentive to customers, which everyone had already generally understood as commercial and not allowed.

    We can still give prints as personal gifts. Now confirmed twice.

    Well, that goes contrary to the email I received from CS just about two hours ago, which stated rather clearly all the thing about the business stuff, to conclude that (also it's stated in my original request, and also in my secondary request, that this ws just about really private presents), that they'd honour their original answer to my first request, but that this was going to be one-time only, and I couldn't make any further prints to gift to my friends.

    I've asked for clarification again, if they really mean what they wrote or if something came across wrong again, but until then, I'm putting two orders for presents I had planned on ice, or perhaps straight into the bin.

    I notice he said 'buy' not create/print, I would presume that he possibly means those bought from the Game Print site that presumably has a deal with daz, not something you print yourself.

    Even the DAZ Freebies they give to us are considered 'purchases' in our accounts, DAZ_Steve makes no mention of having to use a specific 3D Print to print the DAZ Store models you have bought. 

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
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