OT: Baby it's COLD Outside

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  • SixDsSixDs Posts: 2,384

    Tire chains? Yup. Still got a set rusting in the shed, but haven't used them for years - off-pavement use only. They work like a charm once you get them on - you can go places where most folks think you need 4WD. However, they are a pain in the butt to put on and take off.

    Frozen pipes? NW Ontario here, and yes, unfortunately. Its cold, but we're used to it. -40 is about where C and F come together. We were away for a few days over the holiday, and when we got home, there was no heat on the second floor. We have hot water heating and one of the pipes in the heating circuit must have frozen. I'm still trying to find it and thaw it. As for heat in the house protecting them from freezing, that is generally true, except that many homes aren't designed with that in mind. As far as I'm concerned, there should be no plumbing at all in outside walls. The problem is that the plumbing often runs through the insulation so that it ends up being insulated from the interior heat as much as the exterior cold.

    Can you go outside when it is -30? Sure. People around here do it all the time. The ones who do it for fun or recreation - skiing, ice fishing, etc. - they are a little nuts IMO. As hacsart said, its all about dressing properly, and you want to be active, not standing around. If you are really working hard, you can actually get hot and sweaty, so you need to sometimes peel off a layer or two. If its calm and sunny, even those temperatures can be quite pleasant - for a while, at least. I've had frostbite so many times the circulation in my hands is pretty much screwed up. Such is life in the north.

    Its just after noon here and about -1 F/-14 C, so not too bad, although there is a bit of a NW wind which always makes it more miserable for us warm-blooded critters.

  • dragotxdragotx Posts: 1,134

    Last year, in the week leading up to Xmas, the area in southern Siberia near Lake Baikal hit -50C for several days. That's -59F. That is deadly cold. Some poor soul stopped to change a tire, and ended up losing his hands! The problem we're having is that due to climate change, the polar vortex is no longer so predictably stationed at the pole. While it was shifted to southern Siberia, the polar region itself was about 30F higher than normal, so no, the polar bears are not happy. California has been unusually warm, and with no rain while the east coast has been digging out from snow. This is likely to get worse. Weather is basically a pump the planet uses to transport heat from the tropics to the poles. More stored heat, more freaky weather.

    Yeah, here in northern Texas we'd been dealing with a 5 year droubt, broke it last may, and had about 2 years worth of rain in that month, then effectively no rain since. With all that rain that drowned Houston we got exactly zero up here. And our seasons have all shifted by about 2 months
  • dragotxdragotx Posts: 1,134
    ebergerly said:

     so no, the polar bears are not happy. California has been unusually warm, and with no rain while the east coast has been digging out from snow. This is likely to get worse. Weather is basically a pump the planet uses to transport heat from the tropics to the poles. More stored heat, more freaky weather.

    What I don't understand is the other part of the story. Yeah, polar bears don't like the warming, but 99% of the rest of life on the planet loves and thrives in warmer temperatures. Just ask those throughout the US who are dealing with all-time record cold temps way below freezing right now. On the other hand, they're only talking about 1 or 2 degrees change in average earth temperature, whatever that means. And there's so much focus on California warming, but not much about the rest of the US in all-time record cold. The whole thing seems really hard to understand.  

     

    It's because the global weather systems are extremely complex and interconnected, and we're only just now realizing how little we actually understand about them. The weather is shifting all over the planet, and the global average they are talking about looks small, but keep in mind that is the elaverage of the entire planet, that's a LOT of different temperatures affecting it. Here in Dallas for example, most of our winter has been over 80 degrees. We we're almost 70 on Monday, this Monday coming up we will be lucky if we see 20 degrees. Our overall temperature is trending upwards, but the extremes on both side of the gauge are getting more extreme
  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255
    edited December 2017
    dragotx said:

    It's because the global weather systems are extremely complex and interconnected, and we're only just now realizing how little we actually understand about them. 

    Yeah, no kidding. The other day I was looking at a temperature map at one of the weather sites, and it shows thousands of individual temperatures across a US map. And even within a 10 mile radius the temps vary by even 5 or 10 degrees at any point in time. And that changes every minute, across the US as clouds come over and the sun changes, and so on. Makes me wonder what "average" temps across the planet even means. Especially if they're talking a difference of 1 or 2 degrees? Wow, totally beyond my understanding. 

    Post edited by ebergerly on
  • dragotxdragotx Posts: 1,134
    ebergerly said:
    dragotx said:

    It's because the global weather systems are extremely complex and interconnected, and we're only just now realizing how little we actually understand about them. 

    Yeah, no kidding. The other day I was looking at a temperature map at one of the weather sites, and it shows thousands of individual temperatures across a US map. And even within a 10 mile radius the temps vary by even 5 or 10 degrees at any point in time. And that changes every minute, across the US as clouds come over and the sun changes, and so on. Makes me wonder what "average" temps across the planet even means. Especially if they're talking a difference of 1 or 2 degrees? Wow, totally beyond my understanding. 

    Yeah, and it seems like everyday a new datapoint comes in and makes it even more complex.  For instance, they've pretty much decided that those strange giant holes that keep popping up in the Siberian tundra are because of the average temperature going up, the permafrost thawing out and a methane pocket erupting because the ground is softer because of the thawing.  That's something that no one had expected, and it took a while to figure out what was going on.

  • SixDsSixDs Posts: 2,384

    There's another northern reality that folks in more southerly climes often don't grasp. I have mentioned on occasion in passing that my vehicle wouldn't start because I forgot to plug it in. "Plug it in?" some would say, "You drive an electric car?". No, I would have to explain, it has a block heater installed in one of the frost plugs in the engine block, which is used to keep the engine moderately warm in extreme cold so that it starts more readily. Problem is, at extremely low temperatures the metal contracts, making everything tighter and more difficult to turn over. Add to that the fact that even multigrade engine oil becomes less viscous at such low temperatures and the amount of cranking power necessary to turn the engine over becomes significant. Add to that the fact that the battery itself becomes less efficient and failure to turn over or start if not plugged in is a common occurence. Some people even use battery blankets (heated battery wraps) to ensure cold weather starts.

  • nattaruknattaruk Posts: 518
    edited December 2017

    North America may currently be cold but most of the rest of the world is warmer then average; as already mentioned the polar vortex which would normally be over the pole has shifted south.

     

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  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,514

    ...and suddenly, 54° with rain coming down in buckets here and flood warnings. Just last weekend we had a couple inches of snow over about a quarter inch of ice.

    Portland sort of has its own "micro climate" due to being at the end of the Columbia Gorge.  We can have several inches of snow in the city but once you drive to the southern environs of the metro area or just north of the "Couv", it will be raining. The Gorge acts as a "weather funnel" both in winter and summer.  During summer our 90° and 100° days happen when we have east winds coming through the Gorge off the high desert. When we get those"Oregon Santa Anas", Portland will often be warmer than places in the south Willamette Valley like Salem, Corvallis, and Eugene.  Consequently when the winds are out of the Southwest that's when we get the cool rainy weather as the coast range isn't as much of a barrier like the Cascades are.

    After living along the western shore of Lake Michigan, it took some getting used to as there it is completely the opposite, East is cool to cold and damp, Southwest, warm and dry. 

  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255

    Thanks. But "average" still doesn't make any sense to me. Trying to come up with an average when temperature even within a few miles changes by the minute, depending on clouds and sun and elevation and so on. And to do it within 1/2 of a degree? 

    I mean, look at the actual temps right now across the US. From below zero to over 70F. And in an hour all of that will be different. And somehow they come up with an average over the entire earth? Within less than a degree?? I just don't get it. 

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  • hacsarthacsart Posts: 2,024

    Heh.. My Lada actually had a crank that could be used not only for starting, but for turning it over in cold weather to loosen it up a bit before you went to start it (and yes there was a block heater as well.. (and a manual priming lever on the fuel pump, and carb heat for the winter..) 

    SixDs said:

    There's another northern reality that folks in more southerly climes often don't grasp. I have mentioned on occasion in passing that my vehicle wouldn't start because I forgot to plug it in. "Plug it in?" some would say, "You drive an electric car?". No, I would have to explain, it has a block heater installed in one of the frost plugs in the engine block, which is used to keep the engine moderately warm in extreme cold so that it starts more readily. Problem is, at extremely low temperatures the metal contracts, making everything tighter and more difficult to turn over. Add to that the fact that even multigrade engine oil becomes less viscous at such low temperatures and the amount of cranking power necessary to turn the engine over becomes significant. Add to that the fact that the battery itself becomes less efficient and failure to turn over or start if not plugged in is a common occurence. Some people even use battery blankets (heated battery wraps) to ensure cold weather starts.

     

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,514

    ...you had a Lada? 

    To quote a wonderful actress (who we lost this year) from her signature role:  "You're braver than I thought".

    Guess it's better than a Yugo, which Consumer Reports dubbed as the first "disposable car" when it was marketed here.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    kyoto kid said:

    ...you had a Lada? 

    To quote a wonderful actress (who we lost this year) from her signature role:  "You're braver than I thought".

    Guess it's better than a Yugo, which Consumer Reports dubbed as the first "disposable car" when it was marketed here.

    Where I come from there is a saying going "built like a Russian tank". I have the deepest respect for Russian engineering skillswink

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited December 2017
    ebergerly said:

     so no, the polar bears are not happy. California has been unusually warm, and with no rain while the east coast has been digging out from snow. This is likely to get worse. Weather is basically a pump the planet uses to transport heat from the tropics to the poles. More stored heat, more freaky weather.

    What I don't understand is the other part of the story. Yeah, polar bears don't like the warming, but 99% of the rest of life on the planet loves and thrives in warmer temperatures. Just ask those throughout the US who are dealing with all-time record cold temps way below freezing right now. On the other hand, they're only talking about 1 or 2 degrees change in average earth temperature, whatever that means. And there's so much focus on California warming, but not much about the rest of the US in all-time record cold. The whole thing seems really hard to understand.  

     

    The real problem isn't that the planet is going to somehow become uninhabitable for humans with a few degrees rise in temperature. It won't. In fact we might wind up with more available farmland (and thus more potential food) than we have right now.

    The real problem is, humans are coastal animals. Take a quick look at our population distribution and see how much is concentrated near oceans. If the temperature permanently rises too much? That all floods. Not to mention the potential damage to rivers, which is another water type you find humans all clustered by. The problem isn't extinction, it's massive displacement and almost a total shift in the useful geography of the planet.

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255

     

    The real problem is, humans are coastal animals. Take a quick look at our population distribution and see how much is concentrated near oceans. If the temperature permanently rises too much? That all floods. Not to mention the potential damage to rivers, which is another water type you find humans all clustered by. The problem isn't extinction, it's massive displacement and almost a total shift in the useful geography of the planet.

    I dunno, it just seems like the incredible benefits of warmer temps to the vast majority of people now living in the cold, versus the relatively small percent of the world's population living in the area of the coastlines that might be affected by any sea rise...

    I mean if you have visited any other countries, or driven along the coastlines in the US, there's a TON of coastline that's cliffs, or uninhabited, or in very poor countries and inhabited by huts that can be moved overnight, and so on. Yeah, if sea level rises appreciably, some big cities are in real trouble. But it's a bit like condemning land when you build a highway thru the middle of town. People gotta move. And it will cost big bucks. But is the cost of fixing the issue worth it? And will it really happen?  

    I dunno, this stuff is way beyond my understanding. Seems like everyone else has it figured out though. I guess I'm either too dumb or just ask too many questions for my own good. smiley

    Maybe both...

  • ebergerly said:

     

    The real problem is, humans are coastal animals. Take a quick look at our population distribution and see how much is concentrated near oceans. If the temperature permanently rises too much? That all floods. Not to mention the potential damage to rivers, which is another water type you find humans all clustered by. The problem isn't extinction, it's massive displacement and almost a total shift in the useful geography of the planet.

    I dunno, it just seems like the incredible benefits of warmer temps to the vast majority of people now living in the cold, versus the relatively small percent of the world's population living in the area of the coastlines that might be affected by any sea rise...

    Generally speaking I agree with you, I'd like to live in one of those old historic times when plants grew down in Antarctica. But the changeover would be hell and I get why other people don't want it. There would be tens of millions of people displaced in the US alone.

  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255

    There would be tens of millions of people displaced in the US alone.

    I just wish I could find some sea level measurement data from big cities like Miami and NYC and so on that show that there's some significant movement. I mean, shouldn't all the coastal cities around the world be noticing rising levels? I can't imagine the sea level would rise only in a few spots 

  • ebergerly said:

    There would be tens of millions of people displaced in the US alone.

    I just wish I could find some sea level measurement data from big cities like Miami and NYC and so on that show that there's some significant movement. I mean, shouldn't all the coastal cities around the world be noticing rising levels? I can't imagine the sea level would rise only in a few spots 

    Global sea level is rising steadily. Local sea levels can vary thanks to tectonics, etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited December 2017
    ebergerly said:

     

    The real problem is, humans are coastal animals. Take a quick look at our population distribution and see how much is concentrated near oceans. If the temperature permanently rises too much? That all floods. Not to mention the potential damage to rivers, which is another water type you find humans all clustered by. The problem isn't extinction, it's massive displacement and almost a total shift in the useful geography of the planet.

    I dunno, it just seems like the incredible benefits of warmer temps to the vast majority of people now living in the cold, versus the relatively small percent of the world's population living in the area of the coastlines that might be affected by any sea rise...

    I mean if you have visited any other countries, or driven along the coastlines in the US, there's a TON of coastline that's cliffs, or uninhabited, or in very poor countries and inhabited by huts that can be moved overnight, and so on. Yeah, if sea level rises appreciably, some big cities are in real trouble. But it's a bit like condemning land when you build a highway thru the middle of town. People gotta move. And it will cost big bucks. But is the cost of fixing the issue worth it? And will it really happen?  

    I dunno, this stuff is way beyond my understanding. Seems like everyone else has it figured out though. I guess I'm either too dumb or just ask too many questions for my own good. smiley

    Maybe both...

    I don't want to get sucked into this discussion over here but I want to point out two things:

    1. There are lots of people living on islands with nowhere to go if the sealevel continues to rise, and it's happening right now.

    2.Coral reefs inhabit 25% of all marine life on this planet. They are dying right now.

    ETA: It's a VERY complex problem and nobody knows anything for sure, it's all just educated guesses, but we can already see the effects of it, that's undeniable.

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,695
    edited December 2017

    83 degrees here in LA...  But at night it gets colder. One night it was cold enough to wear a parka! But that was probably like 45 degrees, we're not used to cold here LOL. 

    I'm originally from NYC and forgot what cold felt like like! I was at the Grove the other night (a big nice upscale outdoor mall with a movie theater) and they decorated it so Christmassy and it was cold that night, it almost felt like back East. Until I realized many of the lights were wrapped around palm trees wink

    Post edited by Wonderland on
  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255

    83 degrees here in LA...  

    That's just not fair. smiley

     

  • ButchButch Posts: 797
    ebergerly said:

     

    The real problem is, humans are coastal animals. Take a quick look at our population distribution and see how much is concentrated near oceans. If the temperature permanently rises too much? That all floods. Not to mention the potential damage to rivers, which is another water type you find humans all clustered by. The problem isn't extinction, it's massive displacement and almost a total shift in the useful geography of the planet.

    I dunno, it just seems like the incredible benefits of warmer temps to the vast majority of people now living in the cold, versus the relatively small percent of the world's population living in the area of the coastlines that might be affected by any sea rise...

    I mean if you have visited any other countries, or driven along the coastlines in the US, there's a TON of coastline that's cliffs, or uninhabited, or in very poor countries and inhabited by huts that can be moved overnight, and so on. Yeah, if sea level rises appreciably, some big cities are in real trouble. But it's a bit like condemning land when you build a highway thru the middle of town. People gotta move. And it will cost big bucks. But is the cost of fixing the issue worth it? And will it really happen?  

    I dunno, this stuff is way beyond my understanding. Seems like everyone else has it figured out though. I guess I'm either too dumb or just ask too many questions for my own good. smiley

    Maybe both...

    Umm, no.  Here in Australia, 85% of the population live within 50km (30mile) of the coastlines.  Moving inland, we're faced with two problems - the lack of arable land and lack of water.  And, when temperatures do rise, we'll dry up even moreso.

    In the northern hemisphere, everyone knows about the jetstream.  However, few people realise the prevailing winds here are circular and blowing outwards (that's the simplest way I can describe it) - all due to the size and placement of the place.  Essentially, the top soil and any moisture are all blown off the continent off into the ocean.

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,695
    ebergerly said:

    83 degrees here in LA...  

    That's just not fair. smiley

     

    But somehow, I and almost everyone I know has a cold! Maybe because the temperature drops so much at night or way too many parties, shaking hands and eating food that people possibly coughed or sneezed on! (Yuck)

  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255

    But Wonderland, being from NYC, you do realize that a REAL Christmas is pine trees and ice skating at Rockefeller Center and snow on Christmas morning. The Grove just doesn't hack it... smiley

  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255

    And as I recall, the Grove has a little fountain there right? But you can't even ice skate on it smiley

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,695
    ebergerly said:

    And as I recall, the Grove has a little fountain there right? But you can't even ice skate on it smiley

    Yes, the fountain is beautiful, lights up and blasts classic Christmas music from Dean Martin or Sinatra. Even AFTER. Christmas! Santa's sleigh and reindeer above that, a big Santa house, tons of lights everywhere, poinsettias, VERY Christmassy and beautiful despite no real snow or pine trees. They used to pump fake snow out onto the streets but it was getting in the food of the outdoor restaurants LOL. I love LA, but when people say how fake it is, they're not kidding! 

     

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,514
    kyoto kid said:

    ...you had a Lada? 

    To quote a wonderful actress (who we lost this year) from her signature role:  "You're braver than I thought".

    Guess it's better than a Yugo, which Consumer Reports dubbed as the first "disposable car" when it was marketed here.

    Where I come from there is a saying going "built like a Russian tank". I have the deepest respect for Russian engineering skillswink

    ...yeah, here in Portland Ural motorcycles have become somewhat popular, particularly the sidecar version as it has 2 wheel drive. They also are  somewhat "retro" looking compared to all the crotch rockets and big hogs on the streets here.  A friend has one and says it is very reliable.

  • The Daz forums are not the place to debate climate change.

  • hacsarthacsart Posts: 2,024

    Indeed we had a Lada - for a good 5 years or so.. best winter car ever, even if it was rather agricultural....

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,514
    edited December 2017

    ...sounds like their "5 year plan" worked.

    If I ever won the lotto, wouldn't mind getting my hands on late 60s - early 70s Gaz 13 Chaika.  Talk about a "tank" (gets about the same mileage too).  During the cold war US film studios would often use old Fords or Checkers (painted black) as Soviet government cars as they looked pretty similar.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • kyoto kid said:

    ...37° here.  Cold for our standards.

    Yeah I grew up in Wisconsin, lived in the northern part of the state for several years, weathered the winter of '76/'77 when in Milwaukee it didn't get above 0° (F) for nearly two weeks and we had a low one night in Madison of -41°. Been in the Pacific Northwet for almost four decades and became acclimated to relatively mild temps this time of year compared to back in the Midwest.  When it does get cold here, the downside is most heating here is electric which is terribly inefficient and runs up the utility bill like a rocket after liftoff, whereas back in Wisconsin gas heat is more common which warms a volume of air much more efficiently.  Also, good insulation in many structures here is almost an afterthought.

    76/77 was a cold winter. There was snow in Florida! It was blown into our carport a couple feet deep and it stuck, for several hours. We had school that day, but it was canceled the following day because the local power companies said they wouldn't be able to handle the demand for electricity if the schools were open.

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