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3Delight Surface and Lighting Thread

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  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited March 2015

    Mustakettu85 said:

    So cool =) Is the coat using an opacity map or just constant values?
    You could probably try upping pixel samples by 1 or 2, to get the DOF somewhat smoother (but it will add some render time, of course).

    Constant value opacity strength with refraction and translucence. The diffuse texture is very dark and probably was not made with gamma correction in mind, so I had to really push the diffuse and translucence strength.

    Yeah, I know about the grainy DOF, probably should have raise the samples but I don't used DOF a lot. Chalk it up to lazyness. :)

    Would've made her more like punk rocker chick, but I don't have a punk rocker chick hair. :)

    edit.
    I've finally gotten around to check what values would be good to get those noise more 'tolerable'. Pixel samples of 8 combined with shadow samples of 64 offers the best compromise (13 min 38.45 secs). The noise isn't that much different with pixel samples of 16 and shadow samples of 64 (47 min 8.78 sec) Might get away with 6 (11 min 7.66 sec), but I generally like sticking to Nyquist values. Plus there's still some hints of blockiness with 6.

    Post edited by wowie on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Mustakettu85 said:


    Rogerbee said:
    Going back to what we were saying about brows, I had a plug in in Poser Called EZ Skin. It generated its own procedural bump maps and ignored the brows. Look how good they look in the close-up of Lana. Is there an equivalent of EZ Skin in DS?


    I'll need to take an EZSkin material apart to say for sure, but what the guys may be doing is multiplying a "de-coloured" diffuse map over "map-free" SSS (then the map does not get "smudged" by the scattering). It can be done in a 3Delight shader (what cannot?!), but it's just not what I prefer =)
    I'd rather get those LAMH brows finally done. There are fibermesh brows for Genesis on ShareCG, too, by JoeQuick.

    Just tried Bjorn with a Catmull-Rom of 3x3 and I didn't notice much, should I have?

    You will, when you start using backlighting and Fresnel attenuation on specular. Then the edges will be lit very strongly (100% reflectance), and with 6x6 sinc, there will be aliasing (stepping) and "ringing" (black borders in bright regions and white borders in darker ones). I find I go for 2x2 Catmull-Rom these days. Here's a screenshot from the documentation I'm writing for my kit...

    Ah, LAMH, I never had that, but I do have Garibaldi. So, the Catmull was 2x2, I'll go and change that on mine then.

    Keep up the good work

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    wowie said:
    As the (in)fanouse Hannibal Smith would say, "I love it when a plan comes together."

    About 4 and half minutes at 1080p. Pretty much everything is with UberSurface2, except for the environment sphere (KHPark) and that fire hidrant (which I forgot to convert)

    Looks good, could the reflections in the paint have been deeper? I remember for the original UberSurface they did an add-on for car paint and I don't remember what the newer one utilised.

    CHEERS!

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited March 2015

    Rogerbee said:

    Looks good, could the reflections in the paint have been deeper? I remember for the original UberSurface they did an add-on for car paint and I don't remember what the newer one utilised.

    By deeper do you mean stronger? I think the reflective one does that (lower diffuse strength with very high roughness values and higher reflection strength and/or specular strength).

    It's not using the original car paint preset. I've made my own, There's three variations, which you can see some pages back (the Car Ranger, Pickup Dred and Limosine were all using different car paint presets). The car paint presets works best if you want to simulate painted metal with a glossy/reflective coat.

    The various metal preset I've made seen on the T888 model render is made without any textures, purely reflections, specular and very low diffuse strength. So they're not very well suited for painted metals. If you want colored metals, you can just change the 1st diffuse, 1st reflection and 2nd reflection color channels.

    The reflections are all set to raytraced, but it can be changed to environment map, although you will need to find one.

    Post edited by wowie on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    That was sort of what I meant, car paint usually captures reflections like a muted mirror, like the reflective floor I made for that backdrop. I actually thought the reflections in the T-Bird were maps.

    Going back to PSK2 and is there anything you've learned since then that I could adapt when I get my copy? You've done MATs for all my favourite textures and I want to get the most out of them. I notice you didn't do one for the Gia 6 Tiziana texture, I've never seen anyone make her look as good as she did in the promos and nothing I've ever tried has made any difference. It annoys me too that Daz never give you the promo lights they use, I'd love to know what they are.

    CHEERS!

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited March 2015

    Rogerbee said:

    That was sort of what I meant, car paint usually captures reflections like a muted mirror, like the reflective floor I made for that backdrop. I actually thought the reflections in the T-Bird were maps.

    Going back to PSK2 and is there anything you've learned since then that I could adapt when I get my copy? You've done MATs for all my favourite textures and I want to get the most out of them. I notice you didn't do one for the Gia 6 Tiziana texture, I've never seen anyone make her look as good as she did in the promos and nothing I've ever tried has made any difference. It annoys me too that Daz never give you the promo lights they use, I'd love to know what they are.

    CHEERS!

    You should try the tute DAZ_Jared did to show how the Gia promo shots were lit by the promo artist. The HDRI he mentions, IIRC, wasn't available for a long time, but I believe it is again in the store. https://youtu.be/msw2KyQBlug

    Here's another lighting tute by Slide3D that's not bad: https://youtu.be/tlREZz7nTRQ

    Post edited by Kevin Sanderson on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Oooh, thanks Kevin,

    I'll give them a look!

    CHEERS!

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited December 1969

    I haven't watched the video in a while but I think the promo artist used one of the Country Day HDRI packs by Sadot.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Well, that was educational! I now know a couple of things to add to my shopping list. I just KNEW that lighting wouldn't be a standard set you could buy in the store! That was the real key to it all. Now I know what was used and what went where I'll try and mimic that at some point.

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited March 2015

    Kevin Sanderson said:
    I haven't watched the video in a while but I think the promo artist used one of the Country Day HDRI packs by Sadot.

    That's right, it's Country House Medium from the original Country Day pack. I'll go find that Predatron Rocks N Drops set too.

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited December 1969

    Glad it helped!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    No worries, it'll help when I go and pick them all up.

    CHEERS!

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:

    Going back to PSK2 and is there anything you've learned since then that I could adapt when I get my copy?

    Lots. :) But I probably won't do a collection of character MATs again. The foremost reason is that the new texture sets have very dim specular maps and/or too much baked-in specular strength (ie. to make the lips look more 'glossy'). So, the only way to get specular highlights that looks correct when viewed at grazing angles is to not use the specular maps at all.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited March 2015

    I see, so do the MATs you did have specular maps attached then? If they do I'll take them out and adjust the fresnel. I realised while watching that Gia video that the UE light I was using had no sphere, so I reloaded the light to get it, then I adjusted some of the light settings to what the guy suggested. I can't really tell if they made any difference, can you!?

    CHEERS!

    Bjorn_Uber_with_Sphere.jpg
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    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited March 2015

    Rogerbee said:

    I see, so do the MATs you did have specular maps attached then?

    All but the Bree and Phillip MATs. As you can guess, they were made that way so you can use the preset with other texture sets.

    Rogerbee said:

    I realised while watching that Gia video that the UE light I was using had no sphere, so I reloaded the light to get it, then I adjusted some of the light settings to what the guy suggested. I can't really tell if they made any difference, can you!?

    The environment sphere isn't needed by UE2. It's there basically as a guide for placement and/or as a background so your reflective objects have something to be reflected.


    That was sort of what I meant, car paint usually captures reflections like a muted mirror, like the reflective floor I made for that backdrop. I actually thought the reflections in the T-Bird were maps.

    Here's two renders of the two carpaint presets, with the same diffuse color and car so it's easier to tell the difference. The first is the one I used in the render and the other is a tweaked version of the more reflective car paint.

    2.jpg
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    1.jpg
    1442 x 811 - 543K
    Post edited by wowie on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited March 2015

    Oh, right, good one with the sphere, I'll remove it again then. Regarding the MATs it doesn't sound as though I'll have too much extra work to do, though we'll see. I think the second T Bird render looks best in terms of the body, looks much more realistic to me.

    I sussed what else they did with Gia in the promo renders that they didn't tell us, they changed the gamma values for the maps. I adjusted them to what you said and she looks better already.

    CHEERS!

    Gia_Uber_Gamma.jpg
    576 x 745 - 197K
    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited March 2015

    Rogerbee said:
    I think the second T Bird render looks best in terms of the body, looks much more realistic to me.

    The first one looks better on the pickup. That's why it's always nice to have options. :)

    Post edited by wowie on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    That it is, that's why DS is fun!

    CHEERS!

  • NoName99NoName99 Posts: 322
    edited March 2015

    wowie said:
    Rogerbee said:

    Looks good, could the reflections in the paint have been deeper? I remember for the original UberSurface they did an add-on for car paint and I don't remember what the newer one utilised.

    By deeper do you mean stronger? I think the reflective one does that (lower diffuse strength with very high roughness values and higher reflection strength and/or specular strength).

    It's not using the original car paint preset. I've made my own, There's three variations, which you can see some pages back (the Car Ranger, Pickup Dred and Limosine were all using different car paint presets). The car paint presets works best if you want to simulate painted metal with a glossy/reflective coat.

    The various metal preset I've made seen on the T888 model render is made without any textures, purely reflections, specular and very low diffuse strength. So they're not very well suited for painted metals. If you want colored metals, you can just change the 1st diffuse, 1st reflection and 2nd reflection color channels.

    The reflections are all set to raytraced, but it can be changed to environment map, although you will need to find one.

    Are you're presets for sale in the Daz shop?

    I've been working on getting car paint to look right. The real new-car shine that's highly reflective, like you see in car commercials. Last night was the first time I came close to a red color that looks somewhat legit, but I'm still not sold on it because it looks plastic. I was checking for presets at the Daz shop and saw a few but I haven't bought them yet.

    I'll post a pic later when I get home in case anyone has any feedback.

    Post edited by NoName99 on
  • NoName99NoName99 Posts: 322
    edited March 2015

    Sorry, double posted.

    Post edited by NoName99 on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited March 2015

    There was a car paint add-on for the original Human Surface shader that looked good:

    http://www.daz3d.com/elite-human-surface-expansion-pack-1

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Hmm, just tried an Area Light, interesting...

    I'll wait till I see Wowie's presets before I delve much deeper there.

    Quite like the render though

    CHEERS!

    Bjorn_AreaLight.jpg
    576 x 745 - 169K
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Hmmm, some of the shadows seem a bit harsh, what can I do there? Here's a big full body render so you can have a good look.

    CHEERS!

    Bjorn_Area_Light_Full_Body.jpg
    1227 x 1595 - 562K
  • NoName99NoName99 Posts: 322
    edited March 2015

    Rogerbee said:
    There was a car paint add-on for the original Human Surface shader that looked good:

    http://www.daz3d.com/elite-human-surface-expansion-pack-1

    CHEERS!

    Thank you for that link. That didn't come up at all when I entered "metals" and "car paint" in the search box.
    I've been trying to use the Daz Default shaders to keep render times reasonable, but I will probably give that a shot.

    Hmmm, some of the shadows seem a bit harsh, what can I do there? Here’s a big full body render so you can have a good look.

    CHEERS!

    However you've been tweaking the skin settings is working cause that's looking pretty realistic. His eyes also have seem to have some life to them.

    Post edited by NoName99 on
  • NoName99NoName99 Posts: 322
    edited March 2015

    Here's the closest I've come in my quest for metal surfaces.

    One is the straight render, the other is after compositing and post work.

    For the cars body, I used red in the diffuse channel, glossiness at 75%, specular at 100%, a metal bump map in the bump channel at 100% -.3 & .3 in the positive & negative channels, and reflections at 30% with a white color.

    Rendered out in 3delight using UE2 with an HDRI map that matches the background.
    Render time was about 3 minutes.

    For the composite, I layered the rendered car image over the background in after effects for post.

    If you look at the background image, you can see the car was accurately reflecting the environment, which is great, but the odd thing is that UE2 flips the HDRI map horizontally when it imports in into Daz, which is why the car is flipped in the composite. This causes the drivers side to be on the wrong side of the image.

    I've tested this with several hdri maps I've found online, and it does it with every single one.
    It's very strange.

    Anyhow, as far as the cars body surface looking realistic I'm closer but not quite there.

    *EDIT: I should have turned the headlights on.

    image.jpg
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    image.jpg
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    Post edited by NoName99 on
  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    Oh, right, good one with the sphere, I'll remove it again then. Regarding the MATs it doesn't sound as though I'll have too much extra work to do, though we'll see. I think the second T Bird render looks best in terms of the body, looks much more realistic to me.

    I sussed what else they did with Gia in the promo renders that they didn't tell us, they changed the gamma values for the maps. I adjusted them to what you said and she looks better already.

    CHEERS!

    That's the best render I've seen you do yet, Rogerbee!

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited March 2015

    dinopt said:

    Are you're presets for sale in the Daz shop?


    No. Not yet. :)


    Hmmm, some of the shadows seem a bit harsh, what can I do there? Here's a big full body render so you can have a good look.

    If it's an Area Light, the only way to get soft shadows is to raise the size/scale of the emitter.

    Post edited by wowie on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    dinopt said:
    Rogerbee said:
    There was a car paint add-on for the original Human Surface shader that looked good:

    http://www.daz3d.com/elite-human-surface-expansion-pack-1

    CHEERS!

    Thank you for that link. That didn't come up at all when I entered "metals" and "car paint" in the search box.
    I've been trying to use the Daz Default shaders to keep render times reasonable, but I will probably give that a shot.

    Hmmm, some of the shadows seem a bit harsh, what can I do there? Here’s a big full body render so you can have a good look.

    CHEERS!

    However you've been tweaking the skin settings is working cause that's looking pretty realistic. His eyes also have seem to have some life to them.

    Glad I could be of help,

    It's thanks to this thread that the skin looks as good as it does, Wowie and Muskie have taught me more in a week than I have learned in years. The eyes are down to Spryo and all the settings and tricks he details in this thread: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/6376/.

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    dinopt said:
    Here's the closest I've come in my quest for metal surfaces.

    One is the straight render, the other is after compositing and post work.

    For the cars body, I used red in the diffuse channel, glossiness at 75%, specular at 100%, a metal bump map in the bump channel at 100% -.3 & .3 in the positive & negative channels, and reflections at 30% with a white color.

    Rendered out in 3delight using UE2 with an HDRI map that matches the background.
    Render time was about 3 minutes.

    For the composite, I layered the rendered car image over the background in after effects for post.

    If you look at the background image, you can see the car was accurately reflecting the environment, which is great, but the odd thing is that UE2 flips the HDRI map horizontally when it imports in into Daz, which is why the car is flipped in the composite. This causes the drivers side to be on the wrong side of the image.

    I've tested this with several hdri maps I've found online, and it does it with every single one.
    It's very strange.

    Anyhow, as far as the cars body surface looking realistic I'm closer but not quite there.

    *EDIT: I should have turned the headlights on.

    Great renders! I have a TVR somewhere and I'd love to recreate the paint effect they used on the actual car.

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Kevin Sanderson said:
    Rogerbee said:
    Oh, right, good one with the sphere, I'll remove it again then. Regarding the MATs it doesn't sound as though I'll have too much extra work to do, though we'll see. I think the second T Bird render looks best in terms of the body, looks much more realistic to me.

    I sussed what else they did with Gia in the promo renders that they didn't tell us, they changed the gamma values for the maps. I adjusted them to what you said and she looks better already.

    CHEERS!

    That's the best render I've seen you do yet, Rogerbee!

    Thanks,

    She only uses the AoA shader, she'll be even better than that when I get UberSurface 2 worked out.

    CHEERS!

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