Model with Shadow only (Problems)

P.S, I do NOT want image editing in like photoshop. This image will be an animation for a game with like 200 frames, because this is just a test image. I want it to be able to be fixed inside Daz3D rendering.

 

I'm trying to add a model with shadow and transparent background to a grass background, however when I add the shadow on the grass background layer the shadow becomes like light grey and look very bad. Any suggestions?

I render 2 pictures, Model + Background and then try to glue them together but the shadows looks horrible doing that way with the knowledge I have now.

Right now, this problem will fuck up my game, BAD!, So I seriously need some help here.

As you see, darker shadow does not work better. I will bump this post until I hopefully get someone who knows about this problem.

Rendered with Iray, Sun and Sky, and also tried with Dome and Scene

 

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Post edited by SeventhRoar666 on
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Comments

  • How are you rendering - Iray? How are you getting the shadow? How are you adding to the photo? Does you lighting give a reasonable match to the lighting in the photo?

  • How are you rendering - Iray? How are you getting the shadow? How are you adding to the photo? Does you lighting give a reasonable match to the lighting in the photo?

    I render with Iray and sun and sky for now, but dome and scene works equally bad. The shadow when I Glue it on the backgrounds looks light grey and horrible.

  • How did you get the shadow?

  • SeventhRoar666SeventhRoar666 Posts: 50
    edited December 5

    How did you get the shadow?

    I used my model and put draw grounds on. Then put a spot light on the scene, rendered it. It looked good but only when I did not apply it on the grass background. the edges on the shadow was close to white (The models shadow)

     

     

     

    Post edited by SeventhRoar666 on
  • Try two rendrs, one with shadows and one without. In your image editor layer it as base image then shadow image then shadowless image. Set the Shadow image layer to Multiply, and if you can add a levels adjustment layer on just that layer so that you can darken or lighten it. That said, a single spot light is going to be a poor match for the grass imaeg if the latter was taken in daylight.

  • SeventhRoar666SeventhRoar666 Posts: 50
    edited December 5

    Try two rendrs, one with shadows and one without. In your image editor layer it as base image then shadow image then shadowless image. Set the Shadow image layer to Multiply, and if you can add a levels adjustment layer on just that layer so that you can darken or lighten it. That said, a single spot light is going to be a poor match for the grass imaeg if the latter was taken in daylight.

    So far I don't think I can change shadow layer at all in Iray. Where do I do that? Because I have not found in surfaces, or do you mean the green area should have no shadows and the model should have shadows?

    Now I found out thanks to that idea, that it's the shadow that is the problem. You can see for yourself, so how can I fix this problem?

    Edited for profanity

     

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    Post edited by SeventhRoar666 on
  • Part of the issue is that you still have an environment light, so it is filling in the shadow.

    What I was suggesting above was to be done in your image editor, though you will have the issue that the shadow is going to be flat so it won't match the ground shape (using some primitives with the Matte proeprty applied might help theer, but tlet's go with this set-up first):

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  • SeventhRoar666SeventhRoar666 Posts: 50
    edited December 5

    Part of the issue is that you still have an environment light, so it is filling in the shadow.

    What I was suggesting above was to be done in your image editor, though you will have the issue that the shadow is going to be flat so it won't match the ground shape (using some primitives with the Matte proeprty applied might help theer, but tlet's go with this set-up first):

    I will try the enviroment light on the model. To remove that. By the way, what part of Daz are you using now? I have never seen those.

    P.S, I can not modify each shadow for each picture, that will take my whole lifetime because it will be like 200 frames per motion of attacks. I have to have the shadow being correct rendered from the start.

     

    Post edited by SeventhRoar666 on
  • Part of the issue is that you still have an environment light, so it is filling in the shadow.

    What I was suggesting above was to be done in your image editor, though you will have the issue that the shadow is going to be flat so it won't match the ground shape (using some primitives with the Matte proeprty applied might help theer, but tlet's go with this set-up first):

    I will try the enviroment light on the model. To remove that. By the way, what part of Daz are you using now? I have never seen those.

    P.S, I can not modify each shadow for each picture, that will take my whole lifetime because it will be like 200 frames per motion of attacks. I have to have the shadow being correct rendered from the start.

    That was in my image editor (using Affinity Photo here). Sorry, I hadn't appreciated that this was a video not a s till image - however, it should be possible to create an action or macro in most image or video editors so once you had the correct settings you could automate the process.

  • SeventhRoar666SeventhRoar666 Posts: 50
    edited December 5

    Part of the issue is that you still have an environment light, so it is filling in the shadow.

    What I was suggesting above was to be done in your image editor, though you will have the issue that the shadow is going to be flat so it won't match the ground shape (using some primitives with the Matte proeprty applied might help theer, but tlet's go with this set-up first):

    I will try the enviroment light on the model. To remove that. By the way, what part of Daz are you using now? I have never seen those.

    P.S, I can not modify each shadow for each picture, that will take my whole lifetime because it will be like 200 frames per motion of attacks. I have to have the shadow being correct rendered from the start.

    That was in my image editor (using Affinity Photo here). Sorry, I hadn't appreciated that this was a video not a s till image - however, it should be possible to create an action or macro in most image or video editors so once you had the correct settings you could automate the process.

    It's not a video it's an animation for a game. Like when you hit with a sword. That animation will be 200 frames. It's not possible to edit each animation because you only need ONE mistake for the whole picture to be ruined.

     

    Post edited by SeventhRoar666 on
  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 2,127
    edited December 5

    Hello, friend. What you need to do:

    Render two layers. First layer is the scene with shadows, and everything in the scene has completely white materials, turn off all diffuse textures to none and set diffuse to white.

    Second layer is the scene, normally, but turn off the ground in Iray so there are no shadows.

    When you composite, multiply the shadows layer over your background, and stack the normal scene with no shadows on top of that.

    This will get rid of the white blotches in your shadow because the shadow layer is multipled (you should multiply shadows over a background anyway to blend).

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • SeventhRoar666SeventhRoar666 Posts: 50
    edited December 5

    Hello, friend. What you need to do:

    Render two layers. First layer is the scene with shadows, and everything in the scene has completely white materials, turn off all diffuse textures to none and set diffuse to white.

    Second layer is the scene, normally, but turn off the ground in Iray so there are no shadows.

    When you composite, multiply the shadows layer over your background, and stack the normal scene with no shadows on top of that.

    This will get rid of the white blotches in your shadow because the shadow layer is multipled (you should multiply shadows over a background anyway to blend).

    I will try what you said. I am not sure if I grasp what you really are saying, but I can try. I had to re read it a couple of times, but I think I grasped what you said. It might work, I will give it a shot.

    Can you explain why rendering takes forever + 100 with no textures and white diffuse color? Without that it won't take long but with that it takes forever, and no my graphic card is not weak. Quadro P5000

    Post edited by SeventhRoar666 on
  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 2,127
    Can you explain why rendering takes forever + 100 with no textures and white diffuse color? Without that it won't take long but with that it takes forever, and no my graphic card is not weak. Quadro P5000

    Renders should not take longer with no diffuse textures, unless maybe you have some perfectly reflective surfaces which it does not look like. Are you restarting DS before doing your full render? Doing multiple renders one after the other without restarting DS causes the rendering to slow down, for no discernable reason.

  • SeventhRoar666SeventhRoar666 Posts: 50
    edited December 6
    Can you explain why rendering takes forever + 100 with no textures and white diffuse color? Without that it won't take long but with that it takes forever, and no my graphic card is not weak. Quadro P5000

    Renders should not take longer with no diffuse textures, unless maybe you have some perfectly reflective surfaces which it does not look like. Are you restarting DS before doing your full render? Doing multiple renders one after the other without restarting DS causes the rendering to slow down, for no discernable reason.

    I think I have the same as it was, however. Will this fix so the model wont be messed up? No, i did not work. I tried what you said but when i put the backgrounds over eachother the coloered ground just took over the white ground and the shadow looked as bad.

    This is SERIOUSLY bad because this makes it impossible to create 2d games in Daz3D, and they bragged how easy it was to do that. If they do not fix this then that market is gone for them.

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    Post edited by SeventhRoar666 on
  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 2,127
    Seventh, I think you've missed what I'm saying to do, I must have misworded things. I will render examples so I am clear.
  • Seventh, I think you've missed what I'm saying to do, I must have misworded things. I will render examples so I am clear

    Alright, I'm waiting. Thanks for showing me what you mean.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 2,127
    edited December 6

    Okay. These are the three images you'll want.

    First, your background, which I'm assuming is static so you can swap it out with any other background.

    image

    Second, the parts of your scene that you want to animate, rendered with no shadows.

    image

    Third, the parts of your scene that you want to animate, with all white diffuse (and you can turn off translucency and SSS too), with the ground on to cast shadows.

    image

    Wherever you are compositing, you want your background layer first, then stack the shadows layer on top of it, and change the shadows layer to Multiply blending. This will make that layer only darken the background, so the shadows do not make white spots.

    image

    Then, on top of that, stack your main scene layer with normal blending.

    image

    Depending on the difference between your main scene and the background, you may see a very slight ring of dark or light around it. This is due to the transparent pixels picking up the DS background color and pretty difficult to avoid. I would use some kind of defringing to get rid of it, but I don't know what final program you are using so not sure if you can. It's barely noticeable with opaque objects, though.

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    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • Alirght, but how do I fix the grass and stones, this is a game you know. Tiles for a game.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 2,127

    What problem are you having with the grass and stones? You've only mentioned a shadow problem.

  • What problem are you having with the grass and stones? You've only mentioned a shadow problem.

    The girl you saw there was a test picture to see if my game character would fit in into my areas of rendered ground and forests. The shadows messed up when it hit the grounds light but what you showed me will only work is the ground has no objects on it, or am I wrong?

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 2,127

    What problem are you having with the grass and stones? You've only mentioned a shadow problem.

    The girl you saw there was a test picture to see if my game character would fit in into my areas of rendered ground and forests. The shadows messed up when it hit the grounds light but what you showed me will only work is the ground has no objects on it, or am I wrong?

    No, it will work with objects in the background, the shadow will just be flat.

  • What problem are you having with the grass and stones? You've only mentioned a shadow problem.

    The girl you saw there was a test picture to see if my game character would fit in into my areas of rendered ground and forests. The shadows messed up when it hit the grounds light but what you showed me will only work is the ground has no objects on it, or am I wrong?

    No, it will work with objects in the background, the shadow will just be flat.

    The ground I am using is Terradome, is that a problem?

     

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 2,127

    What problem are you having with the grass and stones? You've only mentioned a shadow problem.

    The girl you saw there was a test picture to see if my game character would fit in into my areas of rendered ground and forests. The shadows messed up when it hit the grounds light but what you showed me will only work is the ground has no objects on it, or am I wrong?

    No, it will work with objects in the background, the shadow will just be flat.

    The ground I am using is Terradome, is that a problem?

     

    No. You can put this over literally any background type you want.

    Please test this in your own application and come back with where you are now; if you do not understand what is going on and how it can be extended you sincerely need hands-on approach to work it out.

  • SeventhRoar666SeventhRoar666 Posts: 50
    edited December 6

    What problem are you having with the grass and stones? You've only mentioned a shadow problem.

    The girl you saw there was a test picture to see if my game character would fit in into my areas of rendered ground and forests. The shadows messed up when it hit the grounds light but what you showed me will only work is the ground has no objects on it, or am I wrong?

    No, it will work with objects in the background, the shadow will just be flat.

    The ground I am using is Terradome, is that a problem?

     

    No. You can put this over literally any background type you want.

    Please test this in your own application and come back with where you are now; if you do not understand what is going on and how it can be extended you sincerely need hands-on approach to work it out.

    Very well, I will try it out to see if it works and post it here how I did it. Thank you for effort and time.

    Post edited by SeventhRoar666 on
  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 2,127

    No problem. yes

  • No problem. yes

    I have a problem, Where do I change shadows to multiply blending? It's not in the rendering nor on the tiles in the surface.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 2,127

    No problem. yes

    I have a problem, Where do I change shadows to multiply blending? It's not in the rendering nor on the tiles in the surface.

    Good question, exactly what are you using to put the end result together? If it's something that expects pixel art and offers no blending capabilities that will give you a problem. There is no way to make shadows cover a background realistically without blending options, you would have to make the shadows opaque black and it'll require a lot more work on the shadow layer than you are doing now, I'm not even sure if it could be automated on an animation scale. I'll try to help you out, but this is a game engine question, and I'll tell you right now you are going to have more knowledgeable answers to "how to use my game engine" questions in a forum related to that engine.

  • No problem. yes

    I have a problem, Where do I change shadows to multiply blending? It's not in the rendering nor on the tiles in the surface.

    Good question, exactly what are you using to put the end result together? If it's something that expects pixel art and offers no blending capabilities that will give you a problem. There is no way to make shadows cover a background realistically without blending options, you would have to make the shadows opaque black and it'll require a lot more work on the shadow layer than you are doing now, I'm not even sure if it could be automated on an animation scale. I'll try to help you out, but this is a game engine question, and I'll tell you right now you are going to have more knowledgeable answers to "how to use my game engine" questions in a forum related to that engine.

    Ok, so there is no way of making what you did in the Daz editor itself. I will need some third part engine?

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 2,127
    edited December 8

    I thought you were making a game. You have no game engine? What did you use to "glue the images together" the first time?

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • SeventhRoar666SeventhRoar666 Posts: 50
    edited December 8

    I thought you were making a game. You have no game engine? What did you use to "glue the images together" the first time?

    Clickfusion, but I can't add a shadow to each frame. I will have over 200 frames for one attack. That won't work.

    Post edited by SeventhRoar666 on
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