DAZ Studio Pro BETA (4.5.2.40) Update!

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  • MBuschMBusch Posts: 533
    edited December 1969

    Geminii23 said:
    Can anyone confirm that the new DAZ beta works on OSx 10.8 or share their experiences?

    So, I am once again forced to explore using Mountain Lion. I have several apps that would require me to upgrade from Snow Leopard but I also have some apps that do not yet seem to be 100% compatible on Mountain Lion. It is quite a pickle.

    I am running ML 10.8.3 with DS 4.5.2.40 without any problem until now.

  • FusionLAFusionLA Posts: 246
    edited December 1969

    Geminii23 said:
    Can anyone confirm that the new DAZ beta works on OSx 10.8 or share their experiences?

    So, I am once again forced to explore using Mountain Lion. I have several apps that would require me to upgrade from Snow Leopard but I also have some apps that do not yet seem to be 100% compatible on Mountain Lion. It is quite a pickle.

    I have been running the beta on Mountain Lion 10.8.3 with no issues so far.

  • mindsongmindsong Posts: 1,095
    edited December 1969

    @Orion_Uk

    can you rotate the null in Z? i've never tried that, but if it's that 'bound', maybe spinning the target spins the camera...

  • GiGi_7GiGi_7 Posts: 1,142
    edited December 1969

    I found this about ptex and renderman

    http://renderman.pixar.com/view/ptex

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 602
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for that link, gilikshe.

    I haven't seen Ptex info that detailed before, but only basic descriptions. Now, I have a clearer understanding of how they achieved the per facet seamless texels mapping.

    Which leads me to a question for the developers, if you guys are still watching this thread.

    Since you have implemented Ptex (.ptx) to be loaded, and rendered with 3Delight, is it possible to load, and use 32bit color vector displacement mapping (.exr) that goes alongside with Ptex in Renderman compliant renderers?

  • DAZ_cjonesDAZ_cjones Posts: 630
    edited December 1969

    DaremoK3 said:
    Thank you for that link, gilikshe.

    I haven't seen Ptex info that detailed before, but only basic descriptions. Now, I have a clearer understanding of how they achieved the per facet seamless texels mapping.

    Which leads me to a question for the developers, if you guys are still watching this thread.

    Since you have implemented Ptex (.ptx) to be loaded, and rendered with 3Delight, is it possible to load, and use 32bit color vector displacement mapping (.exr) that goes alongside with Ptex in Renderman compliant renderers?

    Vector displacement is not currently implemented in the Studio base, but it could be done with the right shader setup. Studio's tdlmake, that comes from 3Delight, does not support exr's at the moment. But you could manually run an exr through a tdlmake that was setup correctly and use the resulting tdl in Studio. You could convert the exr to hdr. HDR don't require any special libraires to run through tdlmake.

  • Geminii23Geminii23 Posts: 1,236
    edited December 1969

    fusionla said:
    Geminii23 said:
    Can anyone confirm that the new DAZ beta works on OSx 10.8 or share their experiences?

    So, I am once again forced to explore using Mountain Lion. I have several apps that would require me to upgrade from Snow Leopard but I also have some apps that do not yet seem to be 100% compatible on Mountain Lion. It is quite a pickle.

    I have been running the beta on Mountain Lion 10.8.3 with no issues so far.

    Well, that is somewhat a relief. Currently, I deal with the typical crashing of DAZ (on Snow Leopard) If DAZ crashes I can deal with it, since I have gotten accustomed to saving my work hundreds of times while I am building scenes. As long as it doesn't crash during renders I am ok.

  • Orion_UkOrion_Uk Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    mindsong said:
    @Orion_Uk

    can you rotate the null in Z? i've never tried that, but if it's that 'bound', maybe spinning the target spins the camera...

    Sorry but I am away from my computer for the next week as I am on holiday :D

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 602
    edited December 1969

    Thank you DAZ_cjones.

    I know you guys are very busy, and don't have much time to read the forums, so thank you for responding with the information.

    Unfortunately, it just leaves me with more questions though. I researched this further, and have gone through the 3Delight manual.


    Is the tdlmake a console script like a batch file where I can code all the needed attributes to produce the needed conversions?

    Can I do this with the DAZ Scripted 3Delight Renderer, or do I need to download, and code 3Delight's main tdlmake?

    Is there updated documentation for DAZ scripted renderer with guidelines how to create the conversion codes (or examples)?


    I found software which can create both the Ptex painting, and the vector displacement maps in OpenEXR, and am looking into finding an EXR to HDR converter.

    The future looks bright for DAZ Studio in regards to utilizing this technology, and I am hoping you guys take it one step further, and include the ability to create the necessary files in either Hexagon, or Carrara.

    Thanks again for your attention.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 30,883
    edited December 1969

    ...they need to bring Hexagon into the 64 bit world though. Having more available memory than just 2G might cure a few of the instability ills when working on complex meshes.

    Even so, I'd take Hexagon over Carrara as it is a dedicated modelling application as opposed to just a function of another more "universal" programme

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited April 2013

    Hexagon is actually a pretty elegant modeller. It's problem is that it crashes a lot. It's other problem is the display when you're in any kind of edit mode. It's hard to see stuff...

    Post edited by wancow on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,235
    edited December 1969

    Yea, I'd really really love to see DAZ throw a few man hours and dollars at fixing Hexagon as well as bringing it into the 64 bit arena. While I'm learning and liking Blender just fine Hex would be nice to keep in the arsenal. Right now I feel like it's just taking up hard drive space. Really a shame that it's seemingly no longer being supported. Surprise us DAZ! We like pleasant surprises!

    :-)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 30,883
    edited April 2013

    ...it could be so much more useful. The instability issues have been plaguing this application way to long now (5 years by my count). It seriously needs an update. Again, I feel some of what makes it so crash prone might have to do with memory allocation issues. These could be mitigated by upgrading it to 64 bit. I also agree, a slight revamp of the UI and tools is definitely in order.

    I can't see how Daz expects to sell an application that is basically out of date while being so error prone. During the same period other modelling software like Blender and even Wings (though I really don't care for it's UI) have seen constant improvement while Hexagon has basically stagnated.

    Same for Bryce. A fractal based scenery generator with, IBL procedural shaders, and Instancing in 64 bit would be so kick butt. If they want to go after others like Smith Micro & Poser or E-On and Vue, they seriously need to update this application as well. Again, (with some of the new tools being introduced in 4.5), I feel Daz has the elements in place to create a fully comprehensive and interlinked 3D suite that encompasses Vertex Modelling, UV Wrapping, Posing, Lighting, Surfacing, Morphing, Scenery Generation, and Instancing, that would take it beyond just a hobbyist's "toy".

    ...and as others have mentioned, Daz Studio needs an open cloth dynamics system or at the very least, a bridge to a more affordable clothing modelling/design application like Marvelous Designer.

    They are so close to having an ideal 3D toolbox, they just need to get serious about it and commit.


    I may come down on Daz at times, but not out of spite or malice. Rather, it''s because I want them to become the best in the mid range 3D application market. It just bothers me to see such potential going to waste.

    Nearly sixty years ago an aircraft company in Seattle took what some referred to as the "16 million dollar gamble" by going out on a limb to design its first jet transport at a time when the company was losing money on it's current commercial airliner, the prop driven 377 Stratocruiser.. The new "bird" would soon become the iconic symbol of what was to be known as the "Jet Age" and revolutionised air travel with its speed, reliability, range, and comfort. Most people these days wouldn't know a 737 from an airbus 320, but back in the day, say the name "707" or "Stratojet" (it's nickname) and most people knew what you were talking about.

    Daz management needs to step out like Boeing's William Allen (who BTW was known as a fairly thoughtful conservative business person not usually prone to taking big risks) did in 1952. LIke the 707, a stable and affordable Daz 3D suite could usher in a whole new era for the 3D enthusiast while offering advanced features like P-Tex Texturing and SubD, along with links to pro grade software like Photoshop and Z-Brush, as well as powerful unbiased render engines like LuxRender. and Blender's "Cycles".

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • DAZ_cjonesDAZ_cjones Posts: 630
    edited December 1969

    DaremoK3 said:
    Thank you DAZ_cjones.

    I know you guys are very busy, and don't have much time to read the forums, so thank you for responding with the information.

    Unfortunately, it just leaves me with more questions though. I researched this further, and have gone through the 3Delight manual.


    Is the tdlmake a console script like a batch file where I can code all the needed attributes to produce the needed conversions?

    Can I do this with the DAZ Scripted 3Delight Renderer, or do I need to download, and code 3Delight's main tdlmake?

    Is there updated documentation for DAZ scripted renderer with guidelines how to create the conversion codes (or examples)?


    I found software which can create both the Ptex painting, and the vector displacement maps in OpenEXR, and am looking into finding an EXR to HDR converter.

    The future looks bright for DAZ Studio in regards to utilizing this technology, and I am hoping you guys take it one step further, and include the ability to create the necessary files in either Hexagon, or Carrara.

    Thanks again for your attention.

    Tdlmake is just a simple console application that converts images from various formats into "tdl" the optimized images that 3delight uses. Its located in the DAZ Studio install directory in the "bin" folder. You can find more information on tdlmake here. The one that ships with this beta is slightly nearer the current public release of 3delight, but the docs are pretty much the same. Quick note however, don't tdlmake ptex they are setup already.

    Speaking of ptex by the way, I'm not sure which programs your making your vector displacements in, but I believe ptex can represent the vector displacement data as well as a exr or hdr can.

    Many things can be done with the Scripted Renderer, but you probably don't need it for this. The best docs for the Scripted Renderer at this time are the examples that ship with Studio.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    when I render to RIB, I get a bunch of TDL files in the collected folder. This IS what we're talking about, right?

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,041
    edited December 1969

    For the DAZ devs: what method does Studio (and 3Delight) use to handle Ptex on meshes with tris in them? Does it split the tris into quads? Is there any standard for this, so that the faceids still match up between different apps? Or does Studio/3Delight currently only support all-quad meshes when Ptex is used?

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 602
    edited December 1969

    Thanks, DAZ_cjones.

    I've read all that already, and know how to apply the coding for the console. I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page since you said the DS version can not directly read the OpenEXR, yet the manual states 3Dlight main can (32-bit float RGB).

    I haven't created anything yet. Just trying to line up all my ducks. The software I will be using for now is 3D-Coat which I have a functioning (crippled) version to work within, but will not be able to export anything until purchase. My purchasing decision is going to be based on what you guys do, or don't do next. If you guys are planning to include this in any of your software that I own that is eligible for upgrade, I'd rather purchase here. If not, I will purchase 3D-Coat to create all my work in.

    OK, I see that Ptex can include the vector displacement mapping in the same file. I was going by the limited exposure of how to work with Ptex over at the 3D-Coat forums. I thought OpenEXR was the default for using the displacement mapping.

    So, it appears I shouldn't have a need for anything other than the .ptx file upon export.


    wancow:

    I have no need for creating RIB files. I am not using the stand alone 3Delight. We were discussing how to implement the use of vector displacement (opposed to standard displacement) along with the Ptex files which are now read by default. I don't think we even need the tdlmake console conversions now.

  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 770
    edited December 1969

    this new "urge" for Ptex support remembered the old days when all people was craving for material nodes like Poser in DazStudio, then, the Shader Mixer was created, when dazians craving for Dynamic Clothes, the plugin was created after, now is this Ptex format, well, you will know the rest sooooooon.

  • DAZ_cjonesDAZ_cjones Posts: 630
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    when I render to RIB, I get a bunch of TDL files in the collected folder. This IS what we're talking about, right?

    Yes this is what I am referring too.

  • DAZ_cjonesDAZ_cjones Posts: 630
    edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    For the DAZ devs: what method does Studio (and 3Delight) use to handle Ptex on meshes with tris in them? Does it split the tris into quads? Is there any standard for this, so that the faceids still match up between different apps? Or does Studio/3Delight currently only support all-quad meshes when Ptex is used?

    PTex defines a method for handling non-quad faces in a quad mesh. Right now ptex is offered through 3delight only, so its only visible during render, like displacement. Furthermore, at this time non-tri faces are only support for ptex when the mesh is a subdivision mesh with either the Catmark or DzCatmulClark types. You can use ptex on a non-subdivide all quad mesh as well.

  • DAZ_cjonesDAZ_cjones Posts: 630
    edited December 1969

    DaremoK3 said:
    Thanks, DAZ_cjones.

    I've read all that already, and know how to apply the coding for the console. I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page since you said the DS version can not directly read the OpenEXR, yet the manual states 3Dlight main can (32-bit float RGB).

    I haven't created anything yet. Just trying to line up all my ducks. The software I will be using for now is 3D-Coat which I have a functioning (crippled) version to work within, but will not be able to export anything until purchase. My purchasing decision is going to be based on what you guys do, or don't do next. If you guys are planning to include this in any of your software that I own that is eligible for upgrade, I'd rather purchase here. If not, I will purchase 3D-Coat to create all my work in.

    OK, I see that Ptex can include the vector displacement mapping in the same file. I was going by the limited exposure of how to work with Ptex over at the 3D-Coat forums. I thought OpenEXR was the default for using the displacement mapping.

    So, it appears I shouldn't have a need for anything other than the .ptx file upon export.


    wancow:

    I have no need for creating RIB files. I am not using the stand alone 3Delight. We were discussing how to implement the use of vector displacement (opposed to standard displacement) along with the Ptex files which are now read by default. I don't think we even need the tdlmake console conversions now.

    The tdlmake's are the same but Studio does not currently ship with any OpenEXR libraries so the tdlmake application will fail if you try to run it on an .exr.

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,041
    edited December 1969

    Any chance of adding the OpenEXR libraries? They could also be useful as HDRs for environment lighting...

  • scotchfairyscotchfairy Posts: 54
    edited December 1969

    Reason forum freaks out during posts (seemingly) at random:

    1) your login timed out while you were posting
    2) someone else finished a post while you were editing yours, and the forum now has its pointers confused. The only good way to fix it is to go up to your DAZ (not forum) login and LOG OUT, then back in. If your browser keeps cookies for a long time, it may be wise to kill that browser window/tab and clear your browser cache before logging back in. Oh, and before all that, take your unfinished post and copy and paste it into a notepad application so it's saved. After you've logged in again, go to the appropriate thread, hit 'POST" and paste your reply in. Hopefully, the thread won't be so hot that someone posts in the tiny space before you can hit "SUBMIT POST"

    -------

    About the installer:
    Why do some packages not get picked up by the installer? I've been forced to hand-install lately:
    The Study Expansion Pack
    The Study Expansion Pack 2
    Millennium Cat (not LE)
    Bast

    It notes that the Millennium Cat is part of the bundle Millennium Cat Bundle, but neither the individual page, nor the bundle page have the little DIM icon.

    Oh, and the BAST bundle is missing its icons. The installed product produces this under Mac OSX 10.6.8. Notice how the system tries to produce icons it doesn't have. When I tried to actually install that pose over the MilCat base, I got a "Daz cannot find the following files)" error. And no texture applied over the poor cat.

    BastIconError.jpg
    423 x 829 - 134K
  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 3,798
    edited December 1969

    I think the bad thumbnails is the result of the png file not being read right. I've had thumbnails like that and the fix was to open them in an image program, if they look right in it save using the default png settings.

  • scotchfairyscotchfairy Posts: 54
    edited December 1969

    Yeah but I checked. There aren't any pngs. Even downloaded a new copy by hand and unzipped it to see. That's why I know the bundle is missing the thumbnails from /Runtime/Libraries/Pose/Mat MillenniumCat/

    And the other weird thing is that the Bast executables are .rsr files (which I thought DS didn't do). Every other file in that directory is either a png or a pz2 format file.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301
    edited December 1969

    .rsr's are just image files, which were used before Poser switched to .png's in Poser4ProPack -- DS reads them, as do older versions of Poser.

  • atticanneatticanne Posts: 3,009
    edited December 1969

    Mike, you mean we don't have to convert the .rsr to .png anymore?

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301
    edited December 1969

    AtticAnne said:
    Mike, you mean we don't have to convert the .rsr to .png anymore?

    Never did in DS, Poser stopped supporting .rsr with P8 I think. I convert them anyway because the .png's are usually smaller and better supported.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 30,594
    edited December 1969

    Probably has nothing to do with anything, but in the older versions of poser, when there was a rsr file in with the geometry file, they would sometimes corrupt and stop the character loading in poser. The solution was to delete the rsr and poser would rebuild a new one and the file would work again.

  • atticanneatticanne Posts: 3,009
    edited December 1969

    Probably a confusion left over from when I was starting with DS. I don't use Poser. I d/l the conversion app way back when I saw it deemed advisable to some forumite. Periodically I run it because I like pngs.

    Thanks for the clarification.

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