Displacement Maps?

Aloreea

Does anyone know how to make displacement maps?

Also do they work like bump maps? > When the darker parts are indented and lighter parts are extruded?

 

Thanks in advance!

sriesch

Yes, you can just move/put your bump map images into the displacement map parameter image spot.

Aloreea

Oh cool! ok thanks!

Richard Haseltine

While, assuming you are using Daz Studio, displacement supports arbitrary levels of detail in 3delight in Iray it will move only the vertices of the mesh - the base mesh or, if SubD is applied, the virtual vertices created by SubD. That means displacement can be of limited use on some models, for some kinds of detailing, as the required polygon count would be unmanageably high.

3Diva

Start with a 50% gray layer. That's neutral. Any areas that are darker than that are lowered, any areas lighter are raised. You can paint any details on with black and white (or lighter and darker shades of gray). This can be useful for adding a bit more realism like creating knuckle wrinkles, palm wrinkles, raising birthmarks, etc. Of course, you can always add those details to bump maps as well. :)

Richard Haseltine

divamakeup said:

Start with a 50% gray layer. That's neutral. Any areas that are darker than that are lowered, any areas lighter are raised. You can paint any details on with black and white (or lighter and darker shades of gray). This can be useful for adding a bit more realism like creating knuckle wrinkles, palm wrinkles, raising birthmarks, etc. Of course, you can always add those details to bump maps as well. :)

Strictly, the neutral value depends on the minimum and maximum values set - for example, if the minimum is 0 and the maximum 1 then black is neutral and mid-grey is a displacement of 0.5. However, the default values do make mid-grey neutral

3Diva

Richard Haseltine said:

divamakeup said:

Start with a 50% gray layer. That's neutral. Any areas that are darker than that are lowered, any areas lighter are raised. You can paint any details on with black and white (or lighter and darker shades of gray). This can be useful for adding a bit more realism like creating knuckle wrinkles, palm wrinkles, raising birthmarks, etc. Of course, you can always add those details to bump maps as well. :)

Strictly, the neutral value depends on the minimum and maximum values set - for example, if the minimum is 0 and the maximum 1 then black is neutral and mid-grey is a displacement of 0.5. However, the default values do make mid-grey neutral

Oh cool - thank you. I always used the default. That's good to know. :)

Aloreea

Richard Haseltine said:

While, assuming you are using Daz Studio, displacement supports arbitrary levels of detail in 3delight in Iray it will move only the vertices of the mesh - the base mesh or, if SubD is applied, the virtual vertices created by SubD. That means displacement can be of limited use on some models, for some kinds of detailing, as the required polygon count would be unmanageably high.

Really? it can be limited on some models? hmm, that explains alot, XD. thanks

divamakeup said:

Start with a 50% gray layer. That's neutral. Any areas that are darker than that are lowered, any areas lighter are raised. You can paint any details on with black and white (or lighter and darker shades of gray). This can be useful for adding a bit more realism like creating knuckle wrinkles, palm wrinkles, raising birthmarks, etc. Of course, you can always add those details to bump maps as well. :)

Ok, thanks that was my next question. I was wondering why most displacement maps were gray. 

AllenArt

Rule of thumb you can follow concerning bump maps and displacement maps:

Small details like pores, pimples, small scars, etc are best handled by bump maps. Larger details like big scars, body modifications like subdermal implants, etc look better as displacement. These rules are not 100% hard and fast rules - a good normal map will stand in for a displacement map so long as actual bumping out (along the edges of models when lit by rim lighting especially) is not really necessary.

Laurie

AllenArt

Aloreea said:

Richard Haseltine said:

While, assuming you are using Daz Studio, displacement supports arbitrary levels of detail in 3delight in Iray it will move only the vertices of the mesh - the base mesh or, if SubD is applied, the virtual vertices created by SubD. That means displacement can be of limited use on some models, for some kinds of detailing, as the required polygon count would be unmanageably high.

Really? it can be limited on some models? hmm, that explains alot, XD. thanks

divamakeup said:

Start with a 50% gray layer. That's neutral. Any areas that are darker than that are lowered, any areas lighter are raised. You can paint any details on with black and white (or lighter and darker shades of gray). This can be useful for adding a bit more realism like creating knuckle wrinkles, palm wrinkles, raising birthmarks, etc. Of course, you can always add those details to bump maps as well. :)

Ok, thanks that was my next question. I was wondering why most displacement maps were gray. 

50% gray in Daz Studio is flat, being neither bumped up or sunk inward. The gray areas are supposed to be neutral.

Laurie

Aloreea

AllenArt said:

Rule of thumb you can follow concerning bump maps and displacement maps:

Small details like pores, pimples, small scars, etc are best handled by bump maps. Larger details like big scars, body modifications like subdermal implants, etc look better as displacement. These rules are not 100% hard and fast rules - a good normal map will stand in for a displacement map so long as actual bumping out (along the edges of models when lit by rim lighting especially) is not really necessary.

Laurie

Hmm, ok thanks! I'll keep that in mind. 

jestmart

Almost all grey scale maps are strength/value maps where black equals zero, white equals one and all the tones inbetween are the decimal places.  Please re-read Richard Haseltine's post.

Aloreea

jestmart said:

Almost all grey scale maps are strength/value maps where black equals zero, white equals one and all the tones inbetween are the decimal places.  Please re-read Richard Haseltine's post.

Wow, This is alot harder than I thought, but I think I get it now. Probably need to go experiment with this.

Thank you all for your help.

Oso3D

It's way easier in 3dl than Iray, but it can be neat.

I've found that for some reason the displacement maps I get out of Substance Painter almost always end up at -1/+.6. Not sure why (gamma, maybe?)

 

Aloreea

timmins.william said:

It's way easier in 3dl than Iray, but it can be neat.

I've found that for some reason the displacement maps I get out of Substance Painter almost always end up at -1/+.6. Not sure why (gamma, maybe?)

 

I've heard that it's easier in 3Delight, why is that?

Kevin Sanderson

3Delight handles displacement better. 

mjc1016

Aloreea said:

timmins.william said:

It's way easier in 3dl than Iray, but it can be neat.

I've found that for some reason the displacement maps I get out of Substance Painter almost always end up at -1/+.6. Not sure why (gamma, maybe?)

 

I've heard that it's easier in 3Delight, why is that?

Two different types of displacement...3DL actually can do 3 different types of displacement...the same type that Iray does (not default), microdisplacement (the default and the 'easy' way for great detail) and vector displacement (another not default).

Aloreea

mjc1016 said:

Aloreea said:

timmins.william said:

It's way easier in 3dl than Iray, but it can be neat.

I've found that for some reason the displacement maps I get out of Substance Painter almost always end up at -1/+.6. Not sure why (gamma, maybe?)

 

I've heard that it's easier in 3Delight, why is that?

Two different types of displacement...3DL actually can do 3 different types of displacement...the same type that Iray does (not default), microdisplacement (the default and the 'easy' way for great detail) and vector displacement (another not default).

Interesting, thanks for explaining.

Oso3D

3dl can do vector displacement?!?

Wait, in Daz, or in other engines?

mjc1016

timmins.william said:

3dl can do vector displacement?!?

Wait, in Daz, or in other engines?

Technically in Studio...but it's extremely difficult to do right.  But yeah, in just about everything else that can use it, it's pretty easy.

Aloreea

Is there a way to change how iray does displacement?

mjc1016

Aloreea said:

Is there a way to change how iray does displacement?

No.

Aloreea

mjc1016 said:

Aloreea said:

Is there a way to change how iray does displacement?

No.

Crap, didn't think so. thanks

mjc1016

Displacement is one of those things that is 'hard coded' into the core of the renderer.  So without a true 'shader language' method of adding extra code (that's what shaders really are...and 3DL suppors 3 'shading languages'...legacy RSL, RSL 2 and OSL...Iray just supports a 'material definition' framework with most/all of the actual shader code 'built in').

Aloreea

mjc1016 said:

Displacement is one of those things that is 'hard coded' into the core of the renderer.  So without a true 'shader language' method of adding extra code (that's what shaders really are...and 3DL suppors 3 'shading languages'...legacy RSL, RSL 2 and OSL...Iray just supports a 'material definition' framework with most/all of the actual shader code 'built in').

Well that's a bummer, XD. 

Oso3D

Now you can use displacement in Iray, and I use it a lot. But you need decently dense meshes.

Like most human figures at Subd 3-4 will show great displaced detail.