Bvh import problem
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I found this tutorial and fiddled with it for a long time to no use.
I am kind a disapointed that Daz have not fixed import of motions after so long time. Its easy, just import a Mixamo fbx file, then export the BVH, Now you have the correct BVH and can import/attatch it to a Genesis 2 or 3 figure.
But of course FBX import does not work either. sigh
it depends what you are importing it on, Genesis 3 and 8 do not work very well with BVH import,
in fact I cannot get anything resembling the motion out of them
the earlier figures do quite well especially M4 and Genesis 1,
the bone names need to match too but thats easily done in BVHacker exporting a BVH of your target figure to get the needed bone names and the renaming your BVH motion to match.
I looked at your file and the rotation is wrong for DAZ figures they twist like pretzels, not sure it can be fixed in DAZ studio, Poser has a rotatiion option, I could try to fix it in iClone 3Dxchange.
edit
I am getting it to work on Genesis in 3DX5 but not DAZ studio so far, not sure why
I cannot help sadly as the file itself seems odd, applying a T pose to it in all my softwares, Carrara, BVHacker and 3Dxhange it ends up weird
Its base Tpose seems wrong for the animation
Thank you for all help, yes it is something wrong with the file but two things are odd.
1) For the first the bvh skeleton itself behave properly in all programs I have tried, such as C4D and Webanimate for instance.
2) For the second the file imports to Daz Studio (to G2) BEFORE it got into Motionbuilder so it has to be Motionbuilder that is the culprit.
You may ask why I am complaining if I can get the motion into DS anyway. That is because I will not be dependent on Mixamo. I will also import non-mixamo files to DS. For the second Adobe is going to discontinue BVH support so that method will not be available in the future.
Why and in what way exactly are Motionbuilder corrupting the file?
That is the question now.
Here is the file before it got corrupted in Motionbuilder
yeah cannot help there I do not have motionbuilder
Webanimate is not working either. Do you know of any other program that can translate FBX motion to BVH?
well renaming the bones in BVHacker that one worked much better
I use iClone's 3Dxchange to create BVH files from FBX figures
BVHacker cannot open so many fields, but iClone xchange!Thank you! I don't know why I didn't think of that. I will make a try.
What version of Motionbuilder ?
Motionbuilder doesn't "cause" BVH problems - they are compatible with DS. I think you might have exported using the wrong settings, or didn't retarget it correctly. If you examine the BVH in notepad or a text editor, the offsets and values are off. Here is your mixamo bvh retargetted to G2F (with T-pose added). It imports directly onto the G2F base in DS (remove rotation limits before importing). G3/G8 has known remaining DS BVH import issues
But if you have motionbuilder, I would use FBX instead of BVH. It works for all generations, including G3/G8. Import FBX into daz and save as pose preset. G3,G8 have locked nodes by default - you have to unlock nodes and remove rotation limits on the target, then merge the pose preset
"Motionbuilder doesn't "cause" BVH problems - they are compatible with DS. I think you might have exported using the wrong settings, or didn't retarget it correctly. If you examine the BVH in notepad or a text editor, the offsets and values are off."
In that case I want to learn how to do it properly. Very few people have succeeded to import from Motionbuilder or any other high end animation program into Daz Studio.
" Here is your mixamo bvh retargeted to G2F"
I have also done that like this,
But I have already explained above why that is not enough.
"Import FBX into daz and save as pose preset"
But that makes is incompatible with everything, including DS rigging itself.I want to collect motions from many different sources, (including DS but only as one stop in the pipeline) and manipulating them in my animation program of choice = C4D.
If DS could only export the FBX animation as BVH, but no.
For now, I try iClone 3DExchange, but I am still interested in getting Motionbuilder to work, if possible.
Best way is FBX . FBX is compatible with basically everything, all programs - that is how people bring back animation into DS for G3/G8 with mobu. BVH (if properly formatted, with correct names/bones/offsets) is only compatible with G2 and below right now.
Actually it' s compatible with basically everything, all programs including DS rigging . You might be saving it as an FBX version newer than the other programs support, or you might not be stripping out the FBX before saving . (For example older C4D versions and DS won't accept multiple takes, newer C4D versions will) . You need to simplfy the FBX before exporting for those versions (delete rigs, remove redundant takes etc..)
The other reason why people do it this way, is the FBX export out of DAZ is base resolution only (not subd, not HD details) . So FBX is only used as a lowish poly version (for simulations, physics, eg. MD , hair, particles etc...) , or as a "background" character. Thats the reason why people "need" to go back into DS, to export out a higher poly version using obj/mdd . And FBX works perfectly even for G3/G8
pdr0!
What you say is interesting and contains (for me) new ideas. Which I intend to explore to the fully. But,
For now I want to know,
1) How to import from anything, anywhere into DS
2) To export anything, anywhere from DS
-with BVH.
I know that it is possible because I have catwalks from Marvelous Designer (with a much more complicated bone structure than any DS figure) imported into DS via BVH from Motionbuilder on my computer.
Check this file (target = G2F)
"1) How to import from anything, anywhere into DS"
It depends on what "anything" is . DS doesn't support "everything" . If you can't get it into DS natively, or properly - then use Mobu as the "bridge" . Chances are you need to retarget anyways if you want it to look correct, unless all your models and characters are exactly the same height ,wearing the same shoes, same heels etc...
"2) To export anything, anywhere from DS
-with BVH."
This isn't necessarily a good idea, because the BVH exporter has bugs and the BVH exports are not universally accepted
FBX exporter doesn't support everything that DS has internally either (e.g. full resolution, subd, HD, some morphs are incompatible), but at least the bones and animations based on bones are correct and importable into other programs
The only way you can get export "perfect" quality including all morphs (but no bone structure) is "baking" it to a mesh format like obj/mdd or alembic
That last bvh, "Marvelous_Designer_Type1_03_no_hands_walk_for_DS_G2F.bvh" is messed up too , and "in place" animation
"This isn't necessarily a good idea, because the BVH exporter has bugs and the BVH exports are not universally accepted"
In practice, as a single freelance you cobble together bits that you have collected over time + a few "handmade". To do that you work only with the skeletons, you add the geometry and texture as the very last thing you do. The next to last is to retarget everything you have to the figure of your choice. Then simulate. Then you can deliver a finished FBX animation to the customer. That is how I like work. And I would very much want to have DS in my pipeline. For example the Puppeteer is very useful.
"In practice, as a single freelance you cobble together bits that you have collected over time + a few "handmade". To do that you work only with the skeletons, you add the geometry and texture as the very last thing you do. The next to last is to retarget everything you have to the figure of your choice. Then simulate. Then you can deliver a finished FBX animation to the customer. That is how I like work. And I would very much want to have DS in my pipeline. For example the Puppeteer is very useful."
It depends on on the specifics and area you are working in - sometimes you "need" the geometry reference for making your animation . eg. If you have a "fat" character, or maybe a monster like an ogre - you might need to "see" the belly or muscles or bumps so it doesn't intersect with objects in the scene. If he "sits" down you wouldn't want his belly to intersect with a table. In cloth simulations, you might need other colliders such as objects and other characters that interact with the mesh of the character(s) and objects. Same with hair or other types of simlulations
mobu is the program that makes everything possible - for you to use motion data from various sources across different programs and platforms , and to "fix" animation problems, retarget etc.. I think 3dxchange should be able too, but with fewer features
"It depends on on the specifics and area you are working in"
Of course. As you know nothing of the field I am working in you walk on thin ice.. (its fashion walks, the mannequins are always thin ;)
But I will check out Mobu.
" (its fashion walks, the mannequins are always thin ;)"
ok true, but for the guys... they are muscular model types, not all are rail thin
what about "plus" size models :D just saying ... now I'm walking on thin ice
ha ha. Thankful for all help, you certainly gave me some ideas!
I would expect that you or at least some of you would want to know how it went. Was it it is really possible to retarget motions into Daz Studio using Motionbuilder?
The short answer is yes, it is doable but it is not for the faint of heart. Especially with the new figures like Genesis 3 or G8F.It is not enough to set it up correctly in Motionbuilder, (although that is difficult enough) but you also have to adjust the mapping in Daz Studio. But the mapping system is broken so in the end you have to write to the registry directly, using regedit.
It is a shame, it is like Daz has given up animation completly I wonder why.
Yes, BVH import is currently broken for G3/G8 as mentioned earlier - FBX motions reimported into daz are not.
They might "look broken" at first when reimporting, but when you save as pose preset in DS, then apply onto target (with nodes unlocked, rotation limits removed), it's perfect. You do not have to remap bones or do anything else in daz beyond that - because it's all done in mobu.
In mobu, you can save templates. There are tutorials out there how to setup characterization. You only have to do it once for each target generation (e.g. G3F would cover all V7 based models too), so next time you import a different G3F figure, it's basically 1 click to setup the control rig. It doesn't matter what the source motion is, as long as it's roughly "biped". For example , some MMD models are even more complex with 10x more bones and twist segments than daz or md models.
mobu isn't for the faint of heart - it's very powerful software for retargetting and solving, animation layers, full fk/ik control rigs. You can't do those sorts of things in daz alone (at least with 4.9; there are some rumours swirling with version 5) . eg. If you have a model wearing flats vs. stilletto heels, the motion needs to be adjusted or you'll get penetration in the floor, and foot sliding. In mobu, you can setup foot contacts, hand contacts, so lots of things can be automatically adjusted.
"In mobu, you can save templates. There are tutorials out there how to setup characterization. You only have to do it once for each.."
Did you read my post? I have used Motionbuilder, I saved naming templates for Genesis G2,G3 and G8 and did everything by the book. But for to get the BVH into DS that is only the beginning. I do not want the FBX import. But its done! I can use the morphs the poses all that the DS can offer. The point is that it is too difficult and cumbersome! You cannot expect the ordinary user manage this.
How about fixing the BVH mapper for a start?
If you want it to work, you want to use FBX import. It's perfect. It's like a universal currency. You can have a library of characterized motions and poses all stored and ready to apply it to any biped model - not just Daz models. Impossible to do with BVH. Anyone serious into animation would do it that way. If you were concerned about the mesh size, you can strip out the mesh too, just keep bones & motion in the FBX .
Even if BVH import was fixed , and BVH bones and names were mapped correctly - that's only part of the problem. Another big problem is DS doesn't retarget. Unless the BVH was specifically targetted for that specific skeleton /size/ offset/morph , the animation will be "off" (e.g. foot goes though floor, hands go through body , feet slide on floor , etc...). That might be ok for some people (just don't show the feet, or use camera creatively :) ) . "ordinary" user might be ok with that. But mobu isn't for "ordinary" user. It's a serious professional animation tool.
If you think it's too "cumbersome", try retargetting in daz (I mean the full motion, not just mapping bones) and trying to get the same results. You're going to cut down the amount of work enormously by using mobu. It's nearly impossible (ok it's possible, but it takes 100x longer) to do that in DS ; you're going to pull your hair out. Life is way too short
I don't understand. What is wrong with this one,
It is no finished animation but the raw result of the retarget. It is now in native DS format with all the advantages of that unlike if it was imported as FBX.
Do you want the original file so you can show me better? Just name the format you want, 3ds max, Maya, C4D or Motionbuilder-
This one doesn't look that bad - if you have some partial success it might be that your BVH was already targetted for that model or a very similar skeleton
I realized it's not finished, but you will see problems if you show the floor grid. Her knees don't look right (unless you're were going for the knock knee look? But the original didn't have that....) . She should be wearing shoes, otherwise you'd get some toe flexion . But if you put on shoes, the animation will show other problems, they will go through floor etc..
But it is a common problem for generic BVH motions. You will encounter many(!!) problems if you intend to apply BVH from multiple different sources as you mentioned earlier - problems much worse that what you show here unless you fix them in other programs . Use some common sense - that's partially why retargetting software exists in the first place. If everything worked with different skeletons you wouldn't need mobu or ikinema , right ? It's not just a problem for DS , if you tried it in C4D, in Poser Pro, Maya etc... same problems. It's a issue with solving. eg. If a skeleton motion source is 5'5" you can't expect the rotations to be applicable to a 5'10" biped. Pay attention to floor contact and foot slippage, that' s the most common issue
When you apply the FBX through a pose preset it's also becomes in the native DS format . You're just using FBX as just a container for motion
The final version (the last mile) of the animation will be in C4D. There I iron out small flaws and discrepancies, generally enhance, polish and add effects. DS is indispensable for facial expressions and poses. C4D on the other hand is a professional animation tool. I would never dream of using Motionbuilder to anything else than retargeting! I wouldn't do even a simple ping pong animation in Motionbuilder.
Yes, as long as you have something that meets your goals/needs for your particular workflow that's great
C4D is an awesome tool, but you can no longer tweak or animate Genesis/2/3/8 characters within C4D if you want a "full quality" mesh . Only the base resolution FBX mesh with rigging is exportable from DS . (No subd) . The subd in C4D (all versions) is different than the internal subd for DS . If you want full HD morphs and quality, the only way is "baked" with obj/mdd or alembic. It's very unwieldy / large filesizes .