Realtime GPU rendering using Carrara rigged figures try iClone

2

Comments

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,671
    edited December 1969

    3dtoday said:
    lol! I bought PoserPro 2012 this week

    cool. were on the same path.

    I was liking carrara - but i need more options.

    For poser your gonna like walk designer probably. { dont know if carrara has that or not}
    you can get octane now, or reality 3 { this month}. but there both in alpha/ beta stage, so some questions there probably.Yeah, that sale I got in an e-mail is a hard offer to refuse. I'm thinking of getting Poser 9 just for the walk designer and cloth room.

  • 3dtoday3dtoday Posts: 0
    edited May 2013

    3dtoday said:
    lol! I bought PoserPro 2012 this week

    cool. were on the same path.

    I was liking carrara - but i need more options.

    For poser your gonna like walk designer probably. { dont know if carrara has that or not}
    you can get octane now, or reality 3 { this month}. but there both in alpha/ beta stage, so some questions there probably.

    Yeah, that sale I got in an e-mail is a hard offer to refuse. I'm thinking of getting Poser 9 just for the walk designer and cloth room.

    ............

    Post edited by 3dtoday on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,671
    edited December 1969

    It was for both.

    Pre-Spring Fever Blowout –
    Offers Expire March 21, 2013 Full Digital Versions Only
    Poser Pro 2012 | Poser 9
    Save $350 – Now Just $149.99 | Save 78% – Now Just $64.99

  • 3dtoday3dtoday Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    It was for both.

    Pre-Spring Fever Blowout –
    Offers Expire March 21, 2013 Full Digital Versions Only
    Poser Pro 2012 | Poser 9
    Save $350 – Now Just $149.99 | Save 78% – Now Just $64.99

    grab it. thats what I paid. But its the lowest youll find.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,671
    edited December 1969

    Back to iClone...
    I'm certainly not saying it's too expensive, I guess... it just costs more than I can spend right now (just had a personal spree :) )
    And I wouldn't have been able to afford it before my spree, either... so they're missing out on sales due to affordability right there. Carrara is worth Much more than you pay, but you always pay less for it.
    But iClone, from their web page anyways, looks like a great deal for the money. Not sure why adding Import/Export of such a popular format doesn't come with it, let alone charging an extra $500 for it. One would think that if they included that feature, their sales would vastly improve, I bet. Just the import/export formats alone.

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    Back to iClone...
    I'm certainly not saying it's too expensive, I guess... it just costs more than I can spend right now (just had a personal spree :) )
    And I wouldn't have been able to afford it before my spree, either... so they're missing out on sales due to affordability right there. Carrara is worth Much more than you pay, but you always pay less for it.
    But iClone, from their web page anyways, looks like a great deal for the money. Not sure why adding Import/Export of such a popular format doesn't come with it, let alone charging an extra $500 for it. One would think that if they included that feature, their sales would vastly improve, I bet. Just the import/export formats alone.

    its because of the game people - thinking they are going to make tons of money ( 99% will not )

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,671
    edited December 1969

    bigh said:

    its because of the game people - thinking they are going to make tons of money ( 99% will not )

    Too bad. Bummer they don't do it separately like they do here.
  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited March 2013

    argus1000 said:
    What don't you guys like about animating in Carrara?

    I love animating in Carrara. That's where I do my final set up. I frequently use Animate 2 in Daz Studio for my primary setup,. I also use iClone's advanced animation features, like foot and hand contacts, a wonderful walk designer (motion puppet), mix moves, the easy way to have a character walk along a path while projecting that path onto a terrain, and all kinds of "reach at" and "masks" functions not found in Carrara. Simply, I use the best of the animations features in both Daz Studio and iClone, setup my scene and render the whole thing in Carrara.
    agree, I have gotten further in Carrara than any other program, but iClone has a Kinnect plugin for realtime motion capture, and it pretty much works kinda.... :cheese:

    The iClone content is kinda low res since it's essentially a game engine renderer. Not sure if you would be happy with the quality importing the figures into Carrara...

    Post edited by wetcircuit on
  • argus1000argus1000 Posts: 701
    edited December 1969

    let alone charging an extra $500 for it. .

    When it was first introduced, the 3dxChange5 importer/exporter had an introductory sale for $199. That's what I paid for it. It was well worth it to me, still is. I don't know if I would pay $500 though. . But there's always going to be another sale... just you wait. Considering that I paid only $200 for the program itself (iClone 5), I consider the whole thing a pretty good deal, even if I just use iClone for the animation.

    However, if you intend to import iClone's characters in Carrara, you're probably going to be disappointed. Its characters
    are low rez. The other way around is more sensible. You import Genesis into iClone, use their animation features, get out as fast as you can and bring your animation back to Carrara (remember DUF? Well youj can export your animation back from iClone, not only as an FBX but as a DUF too) . Back into Carrara. That's where the action is, after all, isn't it?

    Repeat after me: DUF... DUF...DUF....

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,671
    edited December 1969

    argus1000 said:
    let alone charging an extra $500 for it. .

    When it was first introduced, the 3dxChange5 importer/exporter had an introductory sale for $199. That's what I paid for it. It was well worth it to me, still is. I don't know if I would pay $500 though. . But there's always going to be another sale... just you wait. Considering that I paid only $200 for the program itself (iClone 5), I consider the whole thing a pretty good deal, even if I just use iClone for the animation.

    However, if you intend to import iClone's characters in Carrara, you're probably going to be disappointed. Its characters
    are low rez. The other way around is more sensible. You import Genesis into iClone, use their animation features, get out as fast as you can and bring your animation back to Carrara (remember DUF? Well youj can export your animation back from iClone, not only as an FBX but as a DUF too) . Back into Carrara. That's where the action is, after all, isn't it?

    Repeat after me: DUF... DUF...DUF....Absolutely my language there! DUF! DUF!
    I kind of thought that it was one of those deals where it's worth much more, once you own it. Thanks for that. Wendy has been really enthused about this forever. I can believe I had no clue for so long or it would certainly be in my setup right now.
    There is still a deal nearly as good as you mention, which is called the "iClone Animation Pipeline" for $599 With the time savings and just increased possibilities, it pays for itself very quickly. The Pro version of iClone 5 has some really powerful animation helpers, it looks like. Such as animating details and such. Bet this works great with your Kinect setup as well. I really liked the kinect animations you did in your movie, especially the ambient fidgeting on the couch while watching TV!
    I'm gonna save for this. I think it'll be a perfect addition and save me even more gobs of time. Who knows, in the meantime it'll likely go on sale. Owning aniMate 2 and the aniBlock importer for Carrara has been a dream. But this looks very very cool. I like the concept of how it appears to work.

    I know, I should just install this free download, but that would drive me nuts. I'll wait until I can afford it - then download the trial ;)
    Very cool thread, thanks for the info. Always fun finding new ways of doing things.

  • OnlyLuvsCatzOnlyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,280
    edited March 2013

    I have had Poser7 for about 3 years so Poser not new to me, used to use in on my laptop because studio crashed all the time, the reason I used Carrara pretty much exclusively.
    Set up some stuff in Poser but always renderd my pz3 scenes in Carrara.
    with PP2012 64bit this might change.

    iClone has DRM digital rights management, something to bear in mind
    reason content not so readilly exported.

    their marketplace vendors (similar to PA's) who all use 3ds Max (there is a developer MAX plugin) are very protective of their monopoly and some have been very hostile in the past on their forum to Daz users wanting to join the party.
    Reallusion however had other ideas in that regard recognizing the market potential.
    I encountered a lot of hostility a year ago when I finally got 3dx4 pro after 3 years of simply using iClone standard and the basic 3dx2 prop importer, iClone was just my fun aside program when not using Carrara.
    reason I suggested Demo Dartanbeck
    I stayed at not much more than demo level (standard limited version) for 3 years.
    was just a fun program
    only got pro and 3dx4 when I got my desktop 18 months ago.
    I found Carrara rigging imported even with 3dx4 though needed to be manually posed on animation imported in with it
    but
    their developer Maya rig imported into Carrara and I could use it to rig stuff and use iMotions in iClone, one very nice Carrara using forum user pointed that out.
    (yes there ARE Carrara users you never see in this forum btw, I know a few)
    This shocked a couple of the exclusive 3ds MAX using content developers a bit that a wet behind the ears Daz ding dong as I was called could do this off the bat within a week of buying 3dx4pro, they felt very threatened, I do not baulk easily though and us non Max users have made our mark on the forum, Project Messiah users being the other quite successful outsiders besides Carraraites.

    Post edited by OnlyLuvsCatz on
  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    They really called you a Daz Ding Dong?

    ....That is messed up.

  • OnlyLuvsCatzOnlyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,280
    edited December 1969

    lol, do not think think this Carrara forum has the monopoly on forum infighting!
    it was one user btw who has been banned a few times.
    he went and deleted every post he made in the forum replacing them with a - at one point!

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    wow! the CrazyTalk forums are not so colorful... LOL

  • argus1000argus1000 Posts: 701
    edited December 1969

    their marketplace vendors (similar to PA's) who all use 3ds Max (there is a developer MAX plugin) are very protective of their monopoly .

    For sure. This is what keeps me from buying animations from the iClone's store. They have this "200 communications" package on sale for $99 (regular price $199). That sounds good at first glance, until you see the export price of $389! Thaty means almost $300 just to export those animations from iClone! I only buy to export to Carrara, so on last analysis that isn't a good deal for me. Not at all! I think that export price is quite extravagant. I'm not buying.

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    argus1000 said:
    until you see the export price of $389! Thaty means almost $300 just to export those animations from iClone!

    Is that a licensing fee...? or do you mean the additional purchase of Xchange?

    Sorry if I'm being dumb, but the iClone store just confuses me... I think I am shell-shocked from the new Renderosity store makeover...

  • argus1000argus1000 Posts: 701
    edited December 1969


    Is that a licensing fee...? or do you mean the additional purchase of Xchange?

    No. I paid $199 for the 3dxChange importer exporter. It's a progream by itself. You only pay once for that. It includes all the updates too.

    What I'm talking about is the animations presets iClone sells on their store. They are not a program.There are various animations presets for sale that iClone has captured with their own capture equipment and adapted for iClone characters. They decided to make more money out of the people who bought them for use in other programs than iClone. Each of them has 2 prices. One price is if you use the animation inside of iClone only (my example was $99 for the "200 communications" preset) and the other price is if you want to export that animation preset that you just bought. That means that you want to use it in another program. That price is much more expensive (my example for the "200 communications" preset was $389)

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    argus1000 said:

    Is that a licensing fee...? or do you mean the additional purchase of Xchange?

    No. I paid $199 for the 3dxChange importer exporter. It's a progream by itself. You only pay once for that. It includes all the updates too.

    What I'm talking about is the animations presets iClone sells on their store. They are not a program.There are various animations presets for sale that iClone has captured with their own capture equipment and adapted for iClone characters. They decided to make more money out of the people who bought them for use in other programs than iClone. Each of them has 2 prices. One price is if you use the animation inside of iClone only (my example was $99 for the "200 communications" preset) and the other price is if you want to export that animation preset that you just bought. That means that you want to use it in another program. That price is much more expensive (my example for the "200 communications" preset was $389)
    :grrr: oh... I was planning to buy some model sets and hoping to export them until I got better at iClone...

    I will be reading the fine print on all items...

  • 3dtoday3dtoday Posts: 0
    edited December 1969


    No. I paid $199 for the 3dxChange importer exporter. It's a progream by itself.


    Did they ever improve that I wonder? they seem to take pride in their software innovations, perhaps deservedly so.
    However, the demo seemed to have a poorly designed interface: constant scrolling of the right hand required.
    No well thought out tabs in sight!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,671
    edited December 1969

    argus1000 said:

    Is that a licensing fee...? or do you mean the additional purchase of Xchange?

    No. I paid $199 for the 3dxChange importer exporter. It's a progream by itself. You only pay once for that. It includes all the updates too.

    What I'm talking about is the animations presets iClone sells on their store. They are not a program.There are various animations presets for sale that iClone has captured with their own capture equipment and adapted for iClone characters. They decided to make more money out of the people who bought them for use in other programs than iClone. Each of them has 2 prices. One price is if you use the animation inside of iClone only (my example was $99 for the "200 communications" preset) and the other price is if you want to export that animation preset that you just bought. That means that you want to use it in another program. That price is much more expensive (my example for the "200 communications" preset was $389)Wow. I'm not going to plan on giving a company like that one fricken penny.
    I like keyframe animating anyways. Wow, these guys are insane.

    Also, the $199 3dxchange, according to the comparison chart, won't export to a readable format for Carrara. You need the "Pipeline" version for $499 over and above the price for iClone. We're getting upwards towards 3dsmax pricing.
    I'll continue buying from Posermocap and GoFigure - not to mention that other new site that hired Solomon. Can't remember the name off hand, but you can even import your Daz figure to their site to try with their animation files.

    These guys just want too much money per person. Wow.

  • OnlyLuvsCatzOnlyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,280
    edited December 1969

    well it depends what you wish to do really
    I render in iClone and for that you only need iC5pro and 3dx5pro.
    I do have pipeline but rarely use the extra features
    I actually do a combination of Carrara and iClone scenes edited together and use Carrara rendered backgrounds in iClone.
    Many of my videos that you might think are Carrara are infact just video backgrounds in iClone.
    I only can suggest try the demo and decide yourself.
    my thread was about fast rendering in iClone of Carrara made and rigged content and it certainly does that.
    Getting stuff made in Carrara in is easy, when I get time I will do a tute showing what I mean with Andy's Kreature, MMoir's man and my own crappy models.
    getting Carrara rigged stuff into Daz studio and Poser is not so simple.
    iClone would suit those Carrara users who create their own content and want a quick way to animate it.
    for Daz content exporting through studio works far better.
    Not for the Art render crowd but for making movies it is definately more practical.
    I am not trying to sell it to anyone but I love using it, certainly more than studio.
    free is not always best.
    Carrara will always be my go to art program but I am a software whore using what ever tools I need.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,671
    edited December 1969

    Okay...
    You've certainly convinced me to look further into this. Some of your movies look like they would take five million years to render in Carrara. I'll definitely consider it's use... and as soon as I get enough time to sit down and actually play with it for a week or so, I'll download it and see what I can get it to do. By then I'll have figured out where to start and what I'll want to start doing in it - so that week will give a great test of what I can make it do. I'm a nut for reading instruction manuals and such! lol
    Hey, thanks for taking the time to explain all of this Wendy.
    So it's pricey. Maybe the function totally outweighs the cost, like Argus 1000 says earlier. Animation help is worth quite a bit - if it's quality help.
    His example that made me drop a load was all about buying content licensing anyways. We can avoid that, can't we? ;)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,671
    edited December 1969

    For my new environment construction kit for Carrara, I made an addon that's a little dragon that can look like a bird from a distance. I have a Sea Gull preset that comes in a flock of them flying in formation - rendering a flyby right now - which is going to take some time in Carrara. I bet iClone would be done by now.

    Oh... and I'm writing a bit about building your own Carrara workstation in the info thread. I was grabbing pics for it when I discovered that AMD has now released computer processors that include a top-notch Radeon video card right in the same chip! No need to buy a vid card! But there's more. It includes 387 (or something - right around there) Radeon Cores! If those are in the cpu, I wonder if Carrara can access those? I know iClone certainly could.

    Let me know if you even want me to build you one ;)

  • OnlyLuvsCatzOnlyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,280
    edited December 1969

    just did one now this last hour http://youtu.be/VdxMolI5O-A no Carrara involved though
    Daz genesis exported,, clothing him in studio took the longest and I did use decimator

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    just did one now this last hour http://youtu.be/VdxMolI5O-A no Carrara involved though
    Daz genesis exported,, clothing him in studio took the longest and I did use decimator

    why didn't you use Carrara ?

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,671
    edited December 1969

    Very cool! Big dude! Great job of Decimating too!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,671
    edited December 1969

    Object Accuracy = 2
    Shadow accuracy = 4
    Really low render, I just wanted to see their motion rendered. Personally, I love it! Now to repeat the render with decent settings and a bit of a breeze in those trees. The water is already animated, but with low settings like that, it's too far away to pick up any good detail.
    Still - watch in HD and check out those Gulls! ;)
    Flying Flock of Gulls Animation

  • OnlyLuvsCatzOnlyLuvsCatz Posts: 22,280
    edited December 1969

    very nice Dart
    my point is though a lovely Carrara render like that can indeed be used as a video backdrop in something like iClone for character interaction videos.
    This is where I find iClone to be of most use, dialogue between characters, while I can and do use Mimic in Carrara, in iClone with its realtime playback, I find dialogue a breeze, previously with iClone characters but now with Daz ones too and my own Carrara rigging and morphing too!
    Early days, stay tuned will be doing more.
    Youtube Audioswap over powered that last video even though I set it to be background music
    here is another I uploaded later http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdAC4bG7wM8

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,671
    edited December 1969

    very nice Dart
    my point is though a lovely Carrara render like that can indeed be used as a video backdrop in something like iClone for character interaction videos.
    This is where I find iClone to be of most use, dialogue between characters, while I can and do use Mimic in Carrara, in iClone with its realtime playback, I find dialogue a breeze, previously with iClone characters but now with Daz ones too and my own Carrara rigging and morphing too!
    Early days, stay tuned will be doing more.
    Youtube Audioswap over powered that last video even though I set it to be background music
    here is another I uploaded later http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdAC4bG7wM8
    Awesome. I'll check that new one right after I type this.
    I was thinking along the same lines, but without even bringing anything into iClone, but putting it all together in Dogwaffle instead, which also utilizes GPU optimizations as of the new Howler 8.2. Well, PD Artist 8.2 does too... but it doesn't have the animation stuff needed. I bought the new Howler but haven't had any time to play in it yet, aside from a beautiful, quick pencil sketch that I didn't save - as I was just testing out my Wacom tablet in Dogwaffle on my new teeny weeny Win 8 netbook. lol
    How fun!
    The question now is, would I be happy with iClone actors, or would I have to cough up the extra gold to get pipeline xchange to bring my current Rosie and Dartan in? It almost looks like those figures could be made into some really cool people. But is that another 5 bazillion dollars?
    Only that free trial can tell. Time draws close to a time when I can try it :)
    The scariest part for me, is that it seems to make the best use of iClone would be to drag me further away from Carrara - which I already know and love. They seem to want you to invest in a whole new way of content and software. Sorry to derail. It obviously renders fast, huh!

    Now... let's see that new render of Wendy's Dream Hunk, shall we ;)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,671
    edited December 1969

    Wow. It really can animate, no question there! Very cool!
    For a second there, at the end, I thought he was going to flip me off - as I recognized that happy dance - but no! He did another really cool thing, and then crashed on purpose! What a stud!
    Awesome, Wendy!

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