Luxus discussion

1394042444550

Comments

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,865
    edited December 1969

    fusionla said:
    Artini said:
    Thanks for all the help about DOF in Lux, millighost, SphericLabs and Renpatsu. I have not imagined, that the F/Stop in Daz Studio camera need to be so small (0.3) to see the effect in Lux. It looks like F/Stop for Lux need to be at least 10 times smaller than when rendering with 3Delight in Daz Studio. Now I can proceed with further discovering features of Luxus and Lux.

    That is one of the things that would be nice in Luxrender if the f-stop worked for true DOF vs just adjusting the tone mapping.
    I like LuxReeder for the real time feed back of adjusting lights, too bad there is none for DOF like Octane Render does.
    It's one of the things that confused me about the LR's Tone Mapping controls (before InaneGlory de-confuzling post here) -- my only familiarity with an f-stop control was in DAZStudio's Depth of Field settings, so what's it got to do with LR's Tone Mapping? Is this something that's obvious to the photographers among us?
  • jax_512b7aea09jax_512b7aea09 Posts: 61
    edited December 1969

    fusionla said:
    Artini said:
    Thanks for all the help about DOF in Lux, millighost, SphericLabs and Renpatsu. I have not imagined, that the F/Stop in Daz Studio camera need to be so small (0.3) to see the effect in Lux. It looks like F/Stop for Lux need to be at least 10 times smaller than when rendering with 3Delight in Daz Studio. Now I can proceed with further discovering features of Luxus and Lux.

    That is one of the things that would be nice in Luxrender if the f-stop worked for true DOF vs just adjusting the tone mapping.
    I like LuxReeder for the real time feed back of adjusting lights, too bad there is none for DOF like Octane Render does.

    It's one of the things that confused me about the LR's Tone Mapping controls (before InaneGlory de-confuzling post here) -- my only familiarity with an f-stop control was in DAZStudio's Depth of Field settings, so what's it got to do with LR's Tone Mapping? Is this something that's obvious to the photographers among us?
    F-stop is a measurement of Aperture, which on a camera lens is the round(ish) shutter that opens and closes allowing more or less light to pass through the lens to hit the film/sensor.

    Aperture is one of the three factors determining how bright the image is; the others being ISO and shutter speed. Also, wide aperture settings have a more narrow depth of field than narrow aperture settings.

    LuxRender does not tie the two functions of the f-stop together, rather it maintains two separate f-stop values, one for light level and one for depth of field.


    For reference, few lenses have an f-stop wider (smaller number) than 1.2. My widest is a 1.4; 1.2 lenses are spendy and wider lenses are practically non-existant.

  • Dumor3DDumor3D Posts: 1,316
    edited April 2013

    When I was first getting into photography, I read this...

    Full Bucket of Water = your properly exposed image

    Water Faucet Valve = Aperture, Iris Size, Lens Opening size (more wide open equals a smaller f-stop size)
    Water Pressure = Film Speed (higher water pressure equals higher film speed)
    Exposure Time = Time it takes to fill the bucket

    As you open or close the valve, the time to fill the bucket decreases or increases. As your water pressure goes up or down, the time to fill the bucket increases or decreases. If you want to fill the bucket faster, you open the valve more and if you can, increase the water pressure.

    This goes even a bit further in the real world of photography, as filling a bucket quickly leads to turbidity in the water... so it actually matches up even better but I don't want to mix things up in Luxrender. But, yes, DoF is not at the moment tied to F-stop in LuxRender... but who knows, it might be one day. One can hope (or not).

    Post edited by Dumor3D on
  • Michael GMichael G Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Did this to test three glass materials, Emerald, Sapphire and Crystal.

    vase_test.jpg
    1600 x 1200 - 370K
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,234
    edited April 2013

    f/stop has two functions basically, dof and motion blur (or lack thereof)... the light increase/decrease could be considered a side effect almost. Since motion blur is almost definitely not taken into account, it's only real purpose would be dof. Any adjustment in light value without that is simply complicating things unnecessarily.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • SphericLabsSphericLabs Posts: 598
    edited December 1969

    Michael_G,

    Nice.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,234
    edited December 1969

    Oh yes, forgot.. I agree, very nice :)

  • SphericLabsSphericLabs Posts: 598
    edited December 1969

    I should admit. I don't know much about photography and I am not much of an artist. I do appreciate those on here that do. and are.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,234
    edited December 1969

    Some of my photography

  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,385
    edited December 1969

    That's a bit of a problem with the digital age, the terminology originates from when cameras and lenses were entirely mechanical contraptions, so doesn't necessarily make sense to the young 'uns of today.

    I learned on an old Zenit SLR that was fully manual except for a light indicator bar. I was always so jealous of the guys that could afford the expensive cameras with all the gadgets and automated functions, but the funny thing is that the stuff I learned way back in the day is now proving valuable for using something like Luxrender.

    shutter speed (to control motion blur) and aperture (to control DOF) both affect the brightness of the image, so the skill comes from being able to get the right balance between the settings to get the look you want to get - combine with the other fundamentals of lighting and framing of your shot to get predictable quality results.

  • jax_512b7aea09jax_512b7aea09 Posts: 61
    edited April 2013

    Gedd said:
    f/stop has two functions basically, dof and motion blur (or lack thereof)... the light increase/decrease could be considered a side effect almost. Since motion blur is almost definitely not taken into account, it's only real purpose would be dof. Any adjustment in light value without that is simply complicating things unnecessarily.

    F/stop only affects motion blur by allowing for a faster shutter speed.

    In LuxRender (tonemapping), it seems that f/stop, ISO, and shutter speed are all just different ways to affect exposure. Raising the ISO doesn't result in a grainy image; lowering the shutter speed doesn't result in motion blur; f/stop doesn't affect depth of field.

    If I raise the ISO 5 stops and lower the f/stop 5 stops, I get the same exact image.

    It would be simpler to just have an 'exposure' slider instead. But, the 3 settings are familiar to photographers. If I know I would use ISO-100 1/250s f/4 for a given shot, I can plug those numbers in and adjust lighting to get more realistic results. And, it's possible the developers of LuxRender plan to incorporate the effects of the 3 settings into the program at some point.

    Post edited by jax_512b7aea09 on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,234
    edited December 1969

    Mordur said:
    F/stop only affects motion blur by allowing for a faster shutter speed.

    Yes, I was only telling half of the story... I was aware of that but it probably wasn't helpful to others that way. Sorry, I typically try to avoid doing that.

    In LuxRender (tonemapping), it seems that f/stop, ISO, and shutter speed are all just different ways to affect exposure. Raising the ISO doesn't result in a grainy image; lowering the shutter speed doesn't result in motion blur; f/stop doesn't affect depth of field.

    If I raise the ISO 5 stops and lower the f/stop 5 stops, I get the same exact image.

    It would be simpler to just have an 'exposure' slider instead. But, the 3 settings are familiar to photographers. If I know I would use ISO-100 1/250s f/4 for a given shot, I can plug those numbers in and adjust lighting to get more realistic results. And, it's possible the developers of LuxRender plan to incorporate the effects of the 3 settings into the program at some point.

    Basically the part about exposure slider was what I was also getting at. Ofc, it does as you mentioned allow for at least an attempt at finding a corrosponding exposure level for a given set of settings, but without a good set of tests, I've no idea how close they are to 'real world' based on the light in the scene, so again... The 'some point in the future' mmm, we can hope. I do like a lot of aspects of the render engine and I'm not really meaning it as a complaint as much as an observation.. but I also have to throw it out there for anyone who might be tempted to go overboard with 'real world' vs 'fake' render engines ;)

  • FusionLAFusionLA Posts: 249
    edited December 1969

    Mordur said:
    Gedd said:
    f/stop has two functions basically, dof and motion blur (or lack thereof)... the light increase/decrease could be considered a side effect almost. Since motion blur is almost definitely not taken into account, it's only real purpose would be dof. Any adjustment in light value without that is simply complicating things unnecessarily.

    F/stop only affects motion blur by allowing for a faster shutter speed.

    In LuxRender (tonemapping), it seems that f/stop, ISO, and shutter speed are all just different ways to affect exposure. Raising the ISO doesn't result in a grainy image; lowering the shutter speed doesn't result in motion blur; f/stop doesn't affect depth of field.

    If I raise the ISO 5 stops and lower the f/stop 5 stops, I get the same exact image.

    It would be simpler to just have an 'exposure' slider instead. But, the 3 settings are familiar to photographers. If I know I would use ISO-100 1/250s f/4 for a given shot, I can plug those numbers in and adjust lighting to get more realistic results. And, it's possible the developers of LuxRender plan to incorporate the effects of the 3 settings into the program at some point.
    I have been shooting digital SLR for awhile now, using a Nikon D800 at the moment and that was my experience also in LuxRender.

  • FusionLAFusionLA Posts: 249
    edited December 1969

    @SphericLabs
    When you convert a surface to a Luxus light/emitter and use the Copy Studio Parameters,
    it does not copy over the diffuse texture to the LuxRender Light Color.
    Is this how this should be?
    I been testing out the easy environments by Flipmode and notice Reality keeps the texture but Luxus does not.

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 1,383
    edited December 1969

    Michael_G said:
    Did this to test three glass materials, Emerald, Sapphire and Crystal.

    Thats beautiful!
    But I think you could get better results using an HDRI when doing this kind of images.
    I really like it. :)

  • Michael GMichael G Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hellboy said:
    Michael_G said:
    Did this to test three glass materials, Emerald, Sapphire and Crystal.

    Thats beautiful!
    But I think you could get better results using an HDRI when doing this kind of images.
    I really like it. :)

    HDRI? wont get caustics though from that.

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 1,383
    edited December 1969

    I don't know anything about caustics, but you'd get some reflections.

  • jax_512b7aea09jax_512b7aea09 Posts: 61
    edited December 1969

    I found this tutorial very useful for understanding the basics of caustics.

  • SphericLabsSphericLabs Posts: 598
    edited December 1969

    fusionla said:
    @SphericLabs
    When you convert a surface to a Luxus light/emitter and use the Copy Studio Parameters,
    it does not copy over the diffuse texture to the LuxRender Light Color.
    Is this how this should be?
    I been testing out the easy environments by Flipmode and notice Reality keeps the texture but Luxus does not.

    It was not obvious to me that it should do that. Is it obvious to others?

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,700
    edited December 1969

    It would be helpful for using skydomes and Flipmodes skyboxes

  • millighostmillighost Posts: 261
    edited December 1969

    fusionla said:
    @SphericLabs
    When you convert a surface to a Luxus light/emitter and use the Copy Studio Parameters,
    it does not copy over the diffuse texture to the LuxRender Light Color.
    Is this how this should be?
    I been testing out the easy environments by Flipmode and notice Reality keeps the texture but Luxus does not.

    It was not obvious to me that it should do that. Is it obvious to others?
    I think it should not do that. It should keep diffuse texture and emission texture separate, because they are different things and are not that exchangeable anyway, the emission texture likely needs to have a different range than a typical diffuse texture usually has..
    With Reality it is a different matter; Reality converts a material into a null-material when it converts an object into a light source (Reality 2 at least, very annoying), the resulting null material does not use a texture anyway, so it can use the diffuse texture for something else, i.e. for the emission in this case. But when an object has both an emission and a diffuse texture they should be kept separate.

  • SassyWenchSassyWench Posts: 602
    edited December 1969

    fusionla said:
    @SphericLabs
    When you convert a surface to a Luxus light/emitter and use the Copy Studio Parameters,
    it does not copy over the diffuse texture to the LuxRender Light Color.
    Is this how this should be?
    I been testing out the easy environments by Flipmode and notice Reality keeps the texture but Luxus does not.

    It was not obvious to me that it should do that. Is it obvious to others?

    That's the way I thought it would work too. It would be nice if it did! :)
    Especially for sky domes.

  • IanTPIanTP Posts: 1,326
    edited December 1969

    Hi everyone, bit of a luxus (or me) problem.

    My desktop pc died, so I have been using Daz/Luxus on my macbook pro using snow leopard and up to date versions of Daz, Luxus and Luxrender. Graphics is a nvidia 9600M GT and everything was working,sampler and hybrid, however, I really need windows as the majority of my workflow is windows based, so here's the thing...

    I now have a dual booting macbook pro with win7 x64 and latest Daz, Luxus and Luxrender and I don't seem to be able to render in Luxrender, 3Delight is as it should be, but when I choose Luxrender, I get what seems to be the Lux console briefly appear, then a black render screen, if I choose the Luxrender GUI option then it doesn't appear, and is not a running application in task manager, so something somewhere is barfed :(

    Any help muchly appreciated :)

  • SphericLabsSphericLabs Posts: 598
    edited December 1969

    Hi everyone, bit of a luxus (or me) problem.

    My desktop pc died, so I have been using Daz/Luxus on my macbook pro using snow leopard and up to date versions of Daz, Luxus and Luxrender. Graphics is a nvidia 9600M GT and everything was working,sampler and hybrid, however, I really need windows as the majority of my workflow is windows based, so here's the thing...

    I now have a dual booting macbook pro with win7 x64 and latest Daz, Luxus and Luxrender and I don't seem to be able to render in Luxrender, 3Delight is as it should be, but when I choose Luxrender, I get what seems to be the Lux console briefly appear, then a black render screen, if I choose the Luxrender GUI option then it doesn't appear, and is not a running application in task manager, so something somewhere is barfed :(

    Any help muchly appreciated :)

    So on windows it does not work, but on Mac it does?

    I would try
    -> Render To : Image File
    -> Choose a name and folder
    -> Use GUI
    -> Render

    Does it create a lxs file in the folder you chose?
    If yes, run luxrender manually and do file open your lxs file

  • IanTPIanTP Posts: 1,326
    edited December 1969

    Hi everyone, bit of a luxus (or me) problem.

    My desktop pc died, so I have been using Daz/Luxus on my macbook pro using snow leopard and up to date versions of Daz, Luxus and Luxrender. Graphics is a nvidia 9600M GT and everything was working,sampler and hybrid, however, I really need windows as the majority of my workflow is windows based, so here's the thing...

    I now have a dual booting macbook pro with win7 x64 and latest Daz, Luxus and Luxrender and I don't seem to be able to render in Luxrender, 3Delight is as it should be, but when I choose Luxrender, I get what seems to be the Lux console briefly appear, then a black render screen, if I choose the Luxrender GUI option then it doesn't appear, and is not a running application in task manager, so something somewhere is barfed :(

    Any help muchly appreciated :)

    So on windows it does not work, but on Mac it does?

    I would try
    -> Render To : Image File
    -> Choose a name and folder
    -> Use GUI
    -> Render

    Does it create a lxs file in the folder you chose?
    If yes, run luxrender manually and do file open your lxs file

    Thanks Spheric, it does create a .lxs file, but I cannot open Luxrender tho due to a missing OpenCL.dll, so i will get the proper driver from nvidia instead of this apple one :) will let you know if i succeed :)

  • SphericLabsSphericLabs Posts: 598
    edited December 1969

    If all else fails get the non opencl one. CPU renderering is pretty much all I do.

  • IanTPIanTP Posts: 1,326
    edited December 1969

    If all else fails get the non opencl one. CPU renderering is pretty much all I do.
    ut

    Hi, Spheric, all good now, I have the proper driver from nvidia and have GPU support!

    I find it quite amusing that Apple supplies a driver that supports CUDA/OpenCL for the Mac, but not if you install Windows on your Mac ;)

    Cheers for the assist :)

  • RenpatsuRenpatsu Posts: 828
    edited April 2013

    Sorry in advance, as this might be a bit technical ...

    Basically I'd like to save render settings for different occasions, but I noticed that saving render presets at least does not save the Luxus render settings - no surprise, it doesn't do so for Scripted Renderers (like point-based occlusion) either.

    Is there an e.g. API exposed to set render settings from DAZ script perhaps? The typical paths I took at least failed so far, namely:

    * The direct hunt for properties via oRenderMgr.getRenderOptions(), which works for standard 3Delight options
    * Trying to access getPropertyHolder() of the LuxusRenderer class, which works for e.g. DzScriptedRenderer, but does not seem to be implemented/exposed here

    The reasoning for this is that I'd like to have some reasonable presets, e.g. "quick" preview via using the biased Surface Integrator etc.

    Are there other ways to save the render settings?

    Post edited by Renpatsu on
  • SphericLabsSphericLabs Posts: 598
    edited December 1969

    the next version will save and load render settings according to the DAZ preferences

  • RenpatsuRenpatsu Posts: 828
    edited December 1969

    the next version will save and load render settings according to the DAZ preferences

    Thanks for answering :) Looking forward to it

This discussion has been closed.